Loss of salvation???

[Gideon300]

The condemnation is death. He follows the statement that there is no condemnation for us who are Christ Jesus with the exclamation as to how.

He says as you know, for the Law of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of the Sin and death.

It is the Law of sin and death that we been set free from. Two things, the Law of Sin. And death.

Death is the condemnation to which verse 1 speaks.

We Being set free from the Law of sin because sin has been condemned in the flesh is how we are delivered from this body of death the Paul speaks of in the previous chapter. There he also explains what the Law of sin is.

Sin has not been condemned in the flesh so we can now do the things that we would. The Law of God that Paul said he delighted in.
As He says in he says in chapter 8, that the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of the Life in of the life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. FOR IF WE WALK After the FLESH WE SHALL DIE. But IF we Through The Spirit do mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live.

Our lives our subject to this to this condition. We either walk after the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus mortifying the deeds of the Body and live. Or we walk after the flesh and die as verse 13 states

No amount of twisting and squirming changes this indicative statement. It is also a sign of who we are as verse 14 shares. We are either Children of God living of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus or still children flesh being tossed like a wave in the sea.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
It is Conditional.

God condemned sin in the flesh, it does not have power over us anymore so that the righteousnerss of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and Not after the flesh. For if you walk after the flesh ye shall die. But if we through the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus mortify the deed of the Body we shall live.

Incidentally, HOW MANY STEPS CONSTITUTE A WALK?

Don't forget Romans 8:9 "You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ"

Believers may struggle due to bondages to certain sins or ignorance of God's word, usually both. Satan is still the tempter, liar and deceiver.

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." (James 3:2) What, even the great Apostle and brother of Christ, James could stumble?

All the exhortations to live holy and righteous lives were addressed to believers. No one becomes sinless instantly. No one becomes perfect in this life.

 

[Roger316]

It is the Law of sin and death that we been set free from. Two things, the Law of Sin. And death.

The Gentiles were never under the law of sin and death. The law of sin and death is not two things; It is one thing. The Law of sin and death refers to the sacrificial system, which could not achieve permanent reconciliation with God. The Jewish people were under that Law.

Death is the condemnation to which verse 1 speaks.

Agreed. All human beings are under the penalty of death, not just the Jews alone, because all human beings are sinners in need of God's mercy.

But those "in Christ" are no longer under the penalty of death as you say.

Sin has not been condemned in the flesh so we can now do the things that we would. The Law of God that Paul said he delighted in.
As He says in he says in chapter 8, that the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of the Life in of the life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. FOR IF WE WALK After the FLESH WE SHALL DIE. But IF we Through The Spirit do mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live.

Here is where many Christians misunderstand Paul. In this chapter, "walking in the flesh" is not the same thing as living a licentious lifestyle. Paul is talking to people who are faithful, practicing Jews Rather, "walking in the flesh" is parallel with living under the Law of Sin and Death, which refers to the sacrificial system.

On the one hand, someone who walks according to the flesh seeks justification through religious rituals and practices. On the other hand, someone who walks according to the spirit seeks justification through faith.

 

[Qt]

Don't forget Romans 8:9 "You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ"

That is not what Romans 8:9 says.

Believers may struggle due to bondages to certain sins or ignorance of God's word, usually both. Satan is still the tempter, liar and deceiver.

He that sins is a servant to sin. And the servant of sin shall not abide in the house forever. But the Son forever. And if the Son shall set us free, free we are indeed.

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." (James 3:2) What, even the great Apostle and brother of Christ, James could stumble?

Make stumble or stumble works. It is sin and we need to forsake it,but it is not willful, He that knows to good and does it not, to him it is sin. Jam 4:17 Maybe the many shouldn't teach since greater condemnation comes upon those who do because they say more than they know and have issues being unjust.

All the exhortations to live holy and righteous lives were addressed to believers. No one becomes sinless instantly. No one becomes perfect in this life.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof this perfectness the Holy Ghost testifieth. He says, The Lord our God will put His Law into our hearts and in our minds will He write them. Again He saith, I will put my Word into their hearts and in their mouth. For with the heart one believes into righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto the the soul. Rom10:8-10 So exhort one daily as we see the Day approaching. For, because of what was just shared. If we are willfully sinning after we receive the knowledge of this truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin, only judgment and the fiery indignation of the Lord our God.


Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[Musicmaster]

You have to love those quips through so many of these 500+ pages of posts where someone admits that we're saved by grace through fait, as Paul stated, and yet still inject into the scriptures negations of their own statements with things such as, "But ya gotta live it," as if that doesn't negate their admission for it being by grace and through faith alone. Adding works seems to be a favorite among those who can't seem to exercise reading comprehension skills at a level of honesty, thus desiring integrity.

The prime fallacy those of that gang perpetrate is to claim that belief in grace through faith alone leads only to living in sin without trying to retain salvation by way of good works. That dichotomy is so very popular. Those of that stripe say those things without realizing that laying claim to any ability to retain salvation by works is nothing but an avenue to boasting:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, you works-based salvationists out there, how do you skirt around that one without brandishing, with self-pride, the banner of boasting? Paul stated "...not of works,..." which clearly isn't about bad works, but rather good works, which leads only to boasting when trying to couple that with salvation, the meaning of which is clearly right there in that one statement among so many others throughout his epistles.

The flagrant ignoring of the clear language of scripture and the message it conveys is an astounding thing to behold; the denials easily held to when one fails to rightly divide the word of truth to the extent that scripture demands. It's very easy to downplay the Law for us today, but quite another to admit there is vast meaning to that middle wall of partition between Israel and Gentiles because of Gentiles having, at that time, been outside the commonwealth of Israel, without God, without Christ and without hope in the world. It all remains ignored by that gang, and without apology in the midst of their pride for self-righteousness while they follow after their false teaching hireling "pastors."

Sad indeed.

MM

 

[Aussie52]

You have to love those quips through so many of these 500+ pages of posts where someone admits that we're saved by grace through fait, as Paul stated, and yet still inject into the scriptures negations of their own statements with things such as, "But ya gotta live it," as if that doesn't negate their admission for it being by grace and through faith alone. Adding works seems to be a favorite among those who can't seem to exercise reading comprehension skills at a level of honesty, thus desiring integrity.

The prime fallacy those of that gang perpetrate is to claim that belief in grace through faith alone leads only to living in sin without trying to retain salvation by way of good works. That dichotomy is so very popular. Those of that stripe say those things without realizing that laying claim to any ability to retain salvation by works is nothing but an avenue to boasting:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, you works-based salvationists out there, how do you skirt around that one without brandishing, with self-pride, the banner of boasting? Paul stated "...not of works,..." which clearly isn't about bad works, but rather good works, which leads only to boasting when trying to couple that with salvation, the meaning of which is clearly right there in that one statement among so many others throughout his epistles.

The flagrant ignoring of the clear language of scripture and the message it conveys is an astounding thing to behold; the denials easily held to when one fails to rightly divide the word of truth to the extent that scripture demands. It's very easy to downplay the Law for us today, but quite another to admit there is vast meaning to that middle wall of partition between Israel and Gentiles because of Gentiles having, at that time, been outside the commonwealth of Israel, without God, without Christ and without hope in the world. It all remains ignored by that gang, and without apology in the midst of their pride for self-righteousness while they follow after their false teaching hireling "pastors."

Sad indeed.

MM

Your post is wrong on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start. Sigh!

 

[Musicmaster]

Your post is wrong on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start. Sigh!

If works-based salvation is your thing, then take your chances. Go for it. The co-gospel of works is prolific throughout much of Evangelicalism, Roman Catholicism and a number of other -isms, even among independents.

It would seem, however, that if you had anything plausible, then you would have stated the objection(s) more succinctly.

MM

 

[Aussie52]

If works-based salvation is your thing, then take your chances. Go for it. The co-gospel of works is prolific throughout much of Evangelicalism, Roman Catholicism and a number of other -isms, even among independents.

It would seem, however, that if you had anything plausible, then you would have stated the objection(s) more succinctly.

MM

Careful, your pride is showing.

 

[Musicmaster]

Careful, your pride is showing.

Pride? Seriously? I simply pointed out your lack of supporting evidence stated in your posts to me thus far. Your lack of proof speaks loud volumes up to the point that you actually say something reasonable and biblical that applies to the body of Christ. That's a simple fact independent of pride or anything else you drum up as your weaponized shuck-n-jive nonsense.

MM

 

[Aussie52]

Pride? Seriously? I simply pointed out your lack of supporting evidence stated in your posts to me thus far. Your lack of proof speaks loud volumes up to the point that you actually say something reasonable and biblical that applies to the body of Christ. That's a simple fact independent of pride or anything else you drum up as your weaponized shuck-n-jive nonsense.

MM

If you say so.

 

[Musicmaster]

If you say so.

Whatever...

MM

 

[mailmandan]

Preservation.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

 

[Musicmaster]

Careful, your pride is showing.

When the first parts of your comments to someone is steeped with ad hominem, that's a conversation killer. It's an interesting tactic to keep from having to back up the empty words you spoke and thus embarrass yourself, but it is effective...

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

Excellent points from scripture. When people project their own weaknesses and failures upon the Lord, they actually, in their minds, seem to believe in a weak and beggarly god of their own making by trying to bring the True God of the Bible down to the level of humanity and all our failures and weaknesses. That seems indicative that they truly don't know the God of the Bible. I mean, how could anyone believe in Holy Spirit being so weak that His seal upon believers can be broken?

Salvation is based only upon two thing: Self effort or entirely by the work of Christ, never a mixture. Even James didn't say what many of them seem to try and inject into his words in James 2. He never once stated that salvation hinges upon works. His statements about works were focused upon faith itself; in that true faith is evidenced in good works, with which most of us agree. What true faith will not provide a harvest of good works as an outflow expression of a salvation that cannot be received from any other source as one looks forward to the hope of glory?

What's messed u p is them twisting scripture by injecting resultant salvation into the statements about TRUE faith evidenced through good works.

When one believes in his works as an additive to their salvation, they are still lost without realizing it.

MM

 

[mailmandan]

Excellent points from scripture. When people project their own weaknesses and failures upon the Lord, they actually, in their minds, seem to believe in a weak and beggarly god of their own making by trying to bring the True God of the Bible down to the level of humanity and all our failures and weaknesses. That seems indicative that they truly don't know the God of the Bible. I mean, how could anyone believe in Holy Spirit being so weak that His seal upon believers can be broken?

2 Corinthians 1:22 - who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

Salvation is based only upon two thing: Self effort or entirely by the work of Christ, never a mixture. Even James didn't say what many of them seem to try and inject into his words in James 2. He never once stated that salvation hinges upon works. His statements about works were focused upon faith itself; in that true faith is evidenced in good works, with which most of us agree. What true faith will not provide a harvest of good works as an outflow expression of a salvation that cannot be received from any other source as one looks forward to the hope of glory?

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

What's messed up is them twisting scripture by injecting resultant salvation into the statements about TRUE faith evidenced through good works.

When one believes in his works as an additive to their salvation, they are still lost without realizing it.

MM

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise, grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise, work is no longer work.

 

[Musicmaster]

2 Corinthians 1:22 - who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise, grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise, work is no longer work.

Yes indeed. There are differing kinds of faith, which is a worthy word study one can do in scripture. What makes the difference is where or what direction one's faith is aimed, or in what it is rooted. As I had stated before, when they inject salvation into statements that are not focused upon salvation as the resultant outcome or consequence of works, that is where they are showing to us the measure of boasting Paul talked about as evidencing an assumed salvation on the basis of works, which is no salvation at all.

Again, very good points.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Titus 2:11-14
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

So, the Gospel of grace, contrary to the the claims from works-based false salvation preaching and claims, is indeed not a teaching for living in sin and worldly comforts and pleasures, but is a teaching for being ZEALOUS for ALL good works, nowhere stating that good works ever save anyone.

So, the liars out there who claim grace preaching is a teaching of "anything goes," please get a grip on yourselves and be honest about what we've been saying all along. That sin doesn't take away our salvation, that is true. You should rejoice in that fact given that ALL of us, including YOU, still sin on a daily basis with not one of you ever showing to us any capability for defining that imaginary line over which one may allegedly step toward the loss of salvation. The boasting that false system of teaching fosters is wicked and evil.

The consequence underlying the above verses is:

Romans 1:18-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

One is only saved by works OR by grace, it can't be both. It's an either/or proposition, not a this AND that. Given that nobody's works are good enough to save them nor to supplement the sufficiency already present in the shed Blood of Christ, each one has a choice to make, and choosing works as being coupled with salvation, that's the foolishness of the lost who are without excuse.

MM

 

[MicaelOhagan]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

This is a deep question
But Paul makes things clear
When he says nothing
Neither angels or demons or dominions or powers or anything created seen or unseen can seperate us from the Love of Christ
I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the gift of recalling chapter and verse
But , I do have, the meaning
So rejoice
The very fact you would ask the question
Provides the answer
Now
There is no condemnation
Paul's words again
I pray you feel His love and peace in your mind and heart
The gift of grace is one way
It cannot turn back on itself

 

[Musicmaster]

Some love pointing to the instructions Jesus, in the flesh, commanded in His earthly walk upon this world among men. They will say that we all should obey what He commanded in that time and to those people. Well, we can rest assured that the hypocrisy of that claim in relation to their own lives is absolutely evident to us all:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

That Greek word translated "gift" in those passages mean, "...of sacrifices and other gifts offered to God, Matthew 5:23."

How many of you offer up animal sacrifices for your sins and in thanksgiving for your healing?

2 Corinthians 5:15-17
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Oh, how little understanding there is among so many Evangelicals and especially among the purely religious who follow after cultic religions that lean toward charisma and emotions, among others that are deeply rooted in works for salvation and/or mitigating some alleged suffering after this life in some sort of strange and unbiblical purging. What trash that is! There were those in that latter religion who flogged themselves with whips and other instruments to allegedly do penance for their sins, with some crawling around cities on their knees, doing permanent damage to their bodies on the basis of horribly false teachings, and yet looked upon as people of great faith and to be admired. How pathetic.

Christ paid it ALL, not some...not most... ALL.

Yes, seek after good works unto reward, but never unto salvation. To believe in an ability to supplement your salvation on the basis of your own efforts in good works, that nullifies what Christ accomplished on the cross. Why? Simple stated; if any one of us could achieve any measure of salvation on our own, with or without Christ, then He need not have died at all for mankind. The rationale for that statement is that if any one of us could lay claim to any measure of righteousness on the basis of our own works, then we would have had a foothold in the day of Judgement against being cast into Hell, for the Lord will not ever cast anyone into those fires who has any measure of righteousness. In other words, there is no middle ground...one is either righteous or he is unrighteous.

As for me, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. He is the One who imputes that to us. It is not of ourselves.

MM

 

[MicaelOhagan]

Some love pointing to the instructions Jesus, in the flesh, commanded in His earthly walk upon this world among men. They will say that we all should obey what He commanded in that time and to those people. Well, we can rest assured that the hypocrisy of that claim in relation to their own lives is absolutely evident to us all:

Matthew 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

That Greek word translated "gift" in those passages mean, "...of sacrifices and other gifts offered to God, Matthew 5:23."

How many of you offer up animal sacrifices for your sins and in thanksgiving for your healing?

2 Corinthians 5:15-17
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Oh, how little understanding there is among so many Evangelicals and especially among the purely religious who follow after cultic religions that lean toward charisma and emotions, among others that are deeply rooted in works for salvation and/or mitigating some alleged suffering after this life in some sort of strange and unbiblical purging. What trash that is! There were those in that latter religion who flogged themselves with whips and other instruments to allegedly do penance for their sins, with some crawling around cities on their knees, doing permanent damage to their bodies on the basis of horribly false teachings, and yet looked upon as people of great faith and to be admired. How pathetic.

Christ paid it ALL, not some...not most... ALL.

Yes, seek after good works unto reward, but never unto salvation. To believe in an ability to supplement your salvation on the basis of your own efforts in good works, that nullifies what Christ accomplished on the cross. Why? Simple stated; if any one of us could achieve any measure of salvation on our own, with or without Christ, then He need not have died at all for mankind. The rationale for that statement is that if any one of us could lay claim to any measure of righteousness on the basis of our own works, then we would have had a foothold in the day of Judgement against being cast into Hell, for the Lord will not ever cast anyone into those fires who has any measure of righteousness. In other words, there is no middle ground...one is either righteous or he is unrighteous.

As for me, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. He is the One who imputes that to us. It is not of ourselves.

MM

I'm afraid your lengthy words fly entirely over my head
I'm a child of the living God and needs "explanation" in childlike terms
I make no apologies for my "simplicity"
May The Spirit of Pure Love fill your heart and guide your mind my brother

 

[Musicmaster]

I'm afraid your lengthy words fly entirely over my head
I'm a child of the living God and needs "explanation" in childlike terms
I make no apologies for my "simplicity"
May The Spirit of Pure Love fill your heart and guide your mind my brother

No problem Micael. Glad to see you in here participating, and blessings to you and yours.

Some, or many, within what's commonly called "Christianity" here in the West, love pointing to the four Gospels at the words Christ spoke to Israel. I qualify that with this:

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Those are the quoted words of Jesus Himself. When Gentiles glamorize the instructions Jesus gave to Israel that were specifically tailored for us (I too am Israeli), Gentiles were at that time outside the commonwealth of Israel, without Christ, without God and without hope in the world because of the middle wall of partition between Israel and Gentiles:

Ephesians 2:13-14
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye (GENTILES) who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

I added what it is parenthesis for clarity given that Paul was addressing the Gentiles in Ephesus. For ease of understanding, read those verses again and again, letting them sink in to the point that the wall that was once in place "between us" (Israel and Gentiles), it came down. Also keep in mind that Paul wrote Ephesians long after the ascension of Christ and after the fall of Israel.

So, what I was pointing out is that the claim for following ALL that Jesus taught to Israel is applicable to us today. The falsehood in that common belief is in the fact that Jesus also taught the continuance of the Mosaic Law in relation to Israel, not Gentiles, by His even commanding to Israel the offering of burnt sacrifices at the time He was walking this earth in the flesh. In other words, rather than to keep on making claims that do not align with reality, we should seek after doing what Christ commanded to us today through Paul:

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What this says to us, dare we read it word for word, in context, it's clear there are divisions within truth that we must make...not between truth and falsehoods but between truths and truths. Not all truths in the Bible are for us today, and that so many fail to divide between what was commanded of Israel and what is for us today after the fall of Israel, they end up confusing new converts with "another gospel," by which they are ccursed:

Galatians 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Notice the "unto YOU." It wasn't that Peter and the other of the twelve were preaching a false gospel, but that the Kingdom Gospel is another gospel, although true for those to whom it was preached, Paul's Gospel, which he received from no other man on this earth, was distinct and had been hidden in God from before the world was, but revealed to us today:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

One will search in vain in this context or any other of Paul's where he ever commanded water baptism for remission of sins as was preached to Israel alone in places like Acts 2, never to Gentiles, but some today want to intermix what was commanded of Israel as allegedly being exactly the same as was preached unto Gentiles by Paul and that simply is not the case. The texts of the Bible bear this out contrary to the manic claims to the contrary and at odds with the clear words stated throughout.

Does that help? I realize this may be a radical set of thoughts and departures from the majority of what is called "Protestantism," but, then, group think is always almost always a problem where truth is concerned.

MM