Gospel Confusion...

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Inquisitor said:
Augustine commented that heretics should be punished.

Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD) advocated for the punishment of heretics, specifically shifting to support state coercion against the Donatists, whom he viewed as schismatics. He justified this "righteous persecution" not as cruel vengeance, but as a "benevolent" measure to correct error and save souls from eternal hell.

  • Motivation: Initially, Augustine preferred persuasion. However, after Donatist extremists (Circumcelliones) frequently attacked Catholic monks and churches, he deemed legal compulsion necessary to protect the Church and bring the heretics back to the faith.
  • Justification: He famously used the phrase "compel them to come in" (coge intrare), interpreting the biblical parable of the banquet as authority to use force, comparing the state to a doctor administering painful but healing medicine to a "raving madman".
  • Scope: While he authorized fines and state pressure to combat the violent Donatist movement, this justification later laid the theological groundwork for broader persecution of heresy in Western Christianity.
  • Perspective: Augustine argued that the salvation of the heretic’s soul was worth the temporary punishment. (AI)
Do you agree with the philosopher Augustine that heretics need to be forcefully corrected?
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No, I don't agree with Augustine...not on much of anything. Paul spoke of those who preach a "different" gospel, declaring that they are to be accursed, but never did he say to fine nor induce them into anything.

Why would we want to do anything to those who oppose God? Are they not the instruments in the very hands of Satan? Do they not serve as the worldly expression of evil? How could we all be seen as the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus if not for those people who serve as a contrast between good and evil?

Besides, he was also in favor of men having plural wives. What does that make him?

No, men like him have nothing of much value to offer to us today.

MM
 
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Musicmaster said:
No, I don't agree with Augustine...not on much of anything. Paul spoke of those who preach a "different" gospel, declaring that they are to be accursed, but never did he say to fine nor induce them into anything.

Why would we want to do anything to those who oppose God? Are they not the instruments in the very hands of Satan? Do they not serve as the worldly expression of evil? How could we all be seen as the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus if not for those people who serve as a contrast between good and evil?

Besides, he was also in favor of men having plural wives. What does that make him?

No, men like him have nothing of much value to offer to us today.

MM
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The problem is MM, that Augustine was more of a philosopher and introduced philosophy into Christianity.

I think I remember that Calvin agreed with Augustine on the persecution of heretics.

They were both as gentle as doves.

The Catholics perfected the persecution of heretics in over 500 years of the Inquisitions.

The Catholics and Protestants went to war with each other.

What happened in Church history???
 
Inquisitor said:
The problem is MM, that Augustine was more of a philosopher and introduced philosophy into Christianity.

I think I remember that Calvin agreed with Augustine on the persecution of heretics.

They were both as gentle as doves.

The Catholics perfected the persecution of heretics in over 500 years of the Inquisitions.

The Catholics and Protestants went to war with each other.

What happened in Church history???
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As I rdcall, Calvin had at least one man executed he considered to be a heretic, so he was far from being a dove.

Mm
 
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Everlasting-Grace said:
If your teaching we must do the work of water baptism to be saved, your teaching a works based gospel..Your no different than a jew saying faith in Christ is great. but you must be circumcised.

No he is not.

Yes it was a command, and paul said whoever said we must be circumcised preaches a false gospel of works of the flesh.

He did not teach against circumcision, That was a command given to jews. he taught against legalism.

Acts 2: 38 is perverted because you fail to translate it right.. and you cause the word of God to contradict itself.
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Inquisitor said:
Paul is the primary author regarding Christianity.

Paul wrote 12 letters in the N.T which is a huge segment by any measure.

Paul was effectively writing the doctrine of the church and in detail.

The Lord chose Paul for this precise purpose.

You lean in the direction of scripture?

Peter said that Paul wrote of these things in wisdom and things that were hard to understand.

Christianity was definitely changing over time in the N.T.
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Yes, and Paul’s assistants included Mark and Luke. He also seems to have influenced Peter and the writer of Hebrews—a major part of the NT.
 
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Hebrews 12:2​

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Inquisitor said:
The problem is MM, that Augustine was more of a philosopher and introduced philosophy into Christianity.

I think I remember that Calvin agreed with Augustine on the persecution of heretics.

They were both as gentle as doves.

The Catholics perfected the persecution of heretics in over 500 years of the Inquisitions.

The Catholics and Protestants went to war with each other.

What happened in Church history???
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Calvin agreed with Augustine on the heresy of tulipism.
 
Inquisitor said:
There is only one truth that the scripture declares bellow.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

One truth and that is Jesus Christ.

Philosophy is not the pursuit of Jesus (the truth).
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Amen
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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JayWalker said:
Why not tells us your thoughts first and then everyone can chime in and let you know where you went wrong :ROFL:




Calvin and Augustine were both spokesmen for the devil.

They were on his payroll
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Well, their tulipism perverted the Gospel and deceived many people, but they also taught some good things, so perhaps God will forgive them for misinterpreting Romans 9 in a way that nullifies God’s love for humanity. Harmonizing Scripture can be hard.
 
DavidLamb said:
Not sure how that could be possible, as the acronym "TULIP" is thought to have been devised by Cleland Boyd McAfee in 1905,long after Calvin, and even longer after Augustine.
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Not sure what that means, but the doctrine known as tulip was taught by Augustine circa 400.
 
GWH said:
Well, their tulipism perverted the Gospel and deceived many people, but they also taught some good things, so perhaps God will forgive them for misinterpreting Romans 9 in a way that nullifies God’s love for humanity. Harmonizing Scripture can be hard.
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A little leaven spoils the whole loaf so they should be ignored altogether even if they have a few good things to say.

If we fellowship and accept those that teach false doctrine then other weaker brothers see that thinking it's OK to fellowship with them too and then they become deceived and end up in hell with the false teachers - now we are responsible for allowing weaker brothers to be deceived having played a part on their deception.

That's why we need to call out the false doctrines as being false to warn all, including weaker brothers so in the end if they get deceived it's not on us as we warned them.

Heresy (false doctrine) is one of the works of the flesh that cause some to not be accepted in God's Kingdom so this business of thinking the calvinists are still saved is a trick of the devil in his attempt to get God's Children to accept the tares and start believing their false doctrine so they too go to hell along with the tares.

Let him that has ears to hear take heed and depart from the false teachers and warn others of their false teachings to help others not fall in to satan's trap of nice sounding, sincere sounding doctrines that is actually doctrines of demons.
 
JayWalker said:
A little leaven spoils the whole loaf so they should be ignored altogether even if they have a few good things to say.

If we fellowship and accept those that teach false doctrine then other weaker brothers see that thinking it's OK to fellowship with them too and then they become deceived and end up in hell with the false teachers - now we are responsible for allowing weaker brothers to be deceived having played a part on their deception.

That's why we need to call out the false doctrines as being false to warn all, including weaker brothers so in the end if they get deceived it's not on us as we warned them.

Heresy (false doctrine) is one of the works of the flesh that cause some to not be accepted in God's Kingdom so this business of thinking the calvinists are still saved is a trick of the devil in his attempt to get God's Children to accept the tares and start believing their false doctrine so they too go to hell along with the tares.

Let him that has ears to hear take heed and depart from the false teachers and warn others of their false teachings to help others not fall in to satan's trap of nice sounding, sincere sounding doctrines that is actually doctrines of demons.
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Yes, ignoring false doctrines is what Paul meant when he said to test all things and keep the good ones.
 
GWH said:
Yes, ignoring false doctrines is what Paul meant when he said to test all things and keep the good ones.
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There's numerous warnings in the New Testament about deception being massive in the end times and we are seeing that now.

The so called "reformed" people are leading the way in deceiving the masses followed by the catholics, the moslems, and the ever so freaky prophetic "movement" where they talk all kinds of smack that's not biblical
 
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Musicmaster said:
Avoidance is indeed a tactic...although a poor one.
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OK so why not get past your ways of avoidance and tells us your thoughts first and then everyone can chime in and let you know where you went wrong

That way we can get right to the point and the correction that is needed.
 
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