Loss of salvation???

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Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
How do you reconcile what is written in Ps 116:15 with Psalm 37:28?

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Ps 116:15
 
How do you reconcile what is written in Ps 116:15 with Psalm 37:28?

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Ps 116:15
In both verses, His "saints" are in a relationship with God and because God loves them, their final breath is a precious moment where God brings them into His presence. So, even in death, God does not forsake them and death is not the end of their story, but a homecoming.
 
In both verses, His "saints" are in a relationship with God and because God loves them, their final breath is a precious moment where God brings them into His presence. So, even in death, God does not forsake them and death is not the end of their story, but a homecoming.
Right, the death of the flesh, not the death of the soul since the soul is the life of the flesh, and thus when the soul departs from the flesh the physical body is dead. That is supported by Genesis 6:3 where the LORD tells us that our days in the flesh shall be up to a 120 years on this earth which is not referring the length of the life of the soul, but rather the separating of the chaff from the wheat.
 
It is at the canter of what he shared about our relationship in and of Christ. Romans 6 says, Shall we continue in sin that grace abounds? No in no way, know you not that as many of us who were baptized were baptized into His death?

Galatians 3 states, we who have been baptized have put on Christ.

Your example from his letter to the Corinthians is not all inclusive.

As with the Bible as a whole, we don't go by the elements in the earlier parts, for the Law is no longer binding upon us today. Paul, in his statements about baptism, said this:

Ephesians 4:4-5
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Not two (water and spiritual), but one baptism (spiritual). Israel was required to seek water baptism which THEN brought about the filling with Holy Spirit. Paul never once stated that as relevant in his gospel given to him by Jesus to the body of Christ. His gospel was and is clearly distinct.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Additionally:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

No command for water baptism, but only faith, even in the earliest parts of Paul's ministry. Nowhere did he command water baptism as did John the Baptist, Jesus and the twelve.

As to sin, absolutely I agree with you. Continuance in sin is not what Paul was advocating when teaching everlasting salvation, contrary to the claims from those who say that the Gospel of Grace is license to sin. When others have said to me that I'm advocating permission for a continuation of living in the pleasures of sin, that only speaks to me of THEM and where they are in their inner man. They are weak and beggarly. They are showing to us all that, were it not for going back to the legalisms of the Law and the constraints and threats therein and/or the bondage of good works requirements, they would otherwise feel free to live like the devil. The problem is that the neither the Law nor good works saves anyone nor do they retain anyone's salvation.

Do you see the dichotomy? Those who believe they can by any means achieve any measure of righteousness as a supplement to the sufficiency that is already in the Blood of Christ, they are lost, for there is nothing that can add to that shed Blood either before salvation nor after. If our good works could by any measure add to us righteousness, then Christ died in vain, for He will never cast anyone into Hell who has a measure of righteousness. Therein is the reason that there is no middle ground when it comes to righteousness. One is either righteous or that one is not. There's no such thing as partial righteousness. I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, and no thing and no one can remove me from that given that I, like so many others, am sealed b y Holy Spirit. Those who don't believe in that, they are on their own to flounder around trying to earn their salvation and earn the favor to retain that salvation, which is not at all what Paul taught.

You see, when those who yammer about some some alleged requirement(s) for good works as retention of their salvation, those hounds never even attempt to define where that line of demarcation rests. They leave their false converts to flounder around like fish flapping around on the sands of the shore, gasping for oxygen in the ignorance inherent within that man-made system of false teaching for a non-existent, works-based salvation.

When new converts can't see that line because of its non-existence, some man-made line between salvation and an alleged loss of salvation, they have no anchor to stabilize their own life's testimony and sharing of a solid and true gospel message apart from the taints of works, which is no salvation at all. The assurance of salvation in the Gospel of Grace, rather than being license to continue in sin (which we all do in this life, including you), genuine salvation is the portal into being under the sanctifying Power of Holy Spirit. Those who are not truly saved fail to recognize and uphold in their beliefs the power of sanctification in the lives of the TRULY saved because they themselves are not saved nor under the power of sanctification flowing out from Holy Spirit. They have no understanding of it when rejecting Paul's gospel. Instead, they continue preaching their gospel of works, which is another gospel that can save not one soul, and thus their being accursed.

Are we in agreement?

MM
 
As with the Bible as a whole, we don't go by the elements in the earlier parts, for the Law is no longer binding upon us today. Paul, in his statements about baptism, said this:

Ephesians 4:4-5
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Not two (water and spiritual), but one baptism (spiritual). Israel was required to seek water baptism which THEN brought about the filling with Holy Spirit. Paul never once stated that as relevant in his gospel given to him by Jesus to the body of Christ. His gospel was and is clearly distinct.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Once again context. He baptized as 1 Cor 1:14,16 shares. He did as Christ seen fit, Paul being moved by the Holy Spirit. For Jesus had said, Go forth into all nations baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Teaching them ALL things whatsoever I commanded you. Paul though moved by Christ personally was a byproduct of that ministry. There is not two different Gospels. One for Jews and one for gentiles. For we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is not Jew or gentile we are all one in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
Additionally:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Once again context. They were baptized. Did they just think up that idea all by themselves?
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
No command for water baptism, but only faith, even in the earliest parts of Paul's ministry. Nowhere did he command water baptism as did John the Baptist, Jesus and the twelve.
As was mentioned above Jesus commanded it after His resurrection.

For Jesus had said, Go forth into all nations baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Teaching them ALL things whatsoever I commanded you.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
As to sin, absolutely I agree with you. Continuance in sin is not what Paul was advocating when teaching everlasting salvation, contrary to the claims from those who say that the Gospel of Grace is license to sin.
By the Law is the knowledge of sin. For God has said He has put His Law, His Word, His Spirit in our hearts to cause us to walk in His ways. That is the Faith that we are to preach. And this faith establishes the law That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if through the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the body we shall live.
 
I don't know.

Many that claim to be Christians will tell you they are still sinners.

They choose to not cease from sin as they refuse to put on the New Man and instead continue identifying with and walk in the old man of sin and to continue living in sin.

Here's a few passages on this topic they reject:
(they claim being obedient to the Lord, being led by the Holy Spirit is trying to earn one's salvation)

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:


I don't know. Prayer is powerful.

If a person has rejected the teachings of God's Word and is instead walking after carnal man made religious doctrine which is false doctrine they can easily become reprobate.

Only someone who sincerely thirsts and hungers for righteousness can recover themselves from satan meaning they are going to have to come to the understanding that the doctrine they are following is in fact false and few are willing to do that.
 
No, verse 12 starts with the particle therefore which means as you know it is a conclusion to what was previously stated. And in Verse 12 Paul uses the words brethren and we in his inferential statement that Jesus will also give life to our bodies that are dead because we are in Christ. He says that we therefore, because of this Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus that the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us, we the brethren are debtors not to live after the flesh. FOR IF we the brethren live after the flesh we shall die, but IF we, the brethren through the Spirit mortify the deeds of the body we, the brethren shall live.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
You are collapsing Paul's categories. Romans 8:13 isn't a warning that brethren" might lose salvation, it's the conclusion of the 2 realms Paul has already defined. Those who are in the flesh will die because they are in the flesh (Romans 8:8-9) & those who are in the Spirit will live because the Spirit dwells in them (Romans 8:9-11).

The IF-clauses describe these 2 groups, not conditions for maintaining salvation. Paul is not saying, "Saved people might spiritually die if they slip up. He's saying, "If you live in the flesh realm, that proves you're in the flesh, if you mortify sin by the Spirit, that proves you're in the Spirit." You are turning a diagnostic contrast into a salvation maintenance warning.

Romans 8 contrasts true brethren (led by the Spirit) and false brethren (controlled by the flesh) by highlighting their internal nature, mindset, and lifestyle. True believers live according to the Spirit, resulting in life, while "false brethren" follow sinful desires or legalism, leading to death.
 
Once again context. He baptized as 1 Cor 1:14,16 shares. He did as Christ seen fit, Paul being moved by the Holy Spirit. For Jesus had said, Go forth into all nations baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Teaching them ALL things whatsoever I commanded you. Paul though moved by Christ personally was a byproduct of that ministry. There is not two different Gospels. One for Jews and one for gentiles. For we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is not Jew or gentile we are all one in Christ.

What Paul did in his early ministry versus what he did later, with his getting to the point that he baptized no more because of the spiritual baptism that already takes place at the point of salvation by grace through faith alone, adding anything else is another gospel in relation to the body of Christ today. As an Israeli, I fully appreciate what Paul taught along this line because I'm well acquainted with the Law and its bondages, even down at the level of good works only.

Sorry, but your invention of doctrine on the basis of what Paul did through the earliest stages of his ministry, and assuming into his actions some sort of silent command to the body of Christ, that's a level of cultic falsehood that most Th.D education taught us to avoid entirely. That's the playground of all the armchair experts out there who love their following being sold out completely to that false system of hermeneutics.

What's wonderful, however, is that we all have a choice as to either relying ONLY on what scripture teaches without the injections...and going along with group-think on each of the many band wagons cutting their ruts deep into the soils of falsehoods, thus trapping the wagons into those ruts of falsehoods.

MM
 
salvation by grace through faith alone

Funny that the Lord says He is going to judge people by their deeds:

Romans 2:6
He will judge everyone according to what they have done.

1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


Faith without corresponding action is not saving faith

Those that accept the whole counsel of God know this because they don't through the Book of James out like their boy luther the drunkard false teacher
 
Many that claim to be Christians will tell you they are still sinners.

Good point.

It's also true that the works-based salvationists like to talk is if they're retaining their salvation by abstaining from certain sins...as if they know where that imaginary line rests over which one can allegedly step, thus losing his salvation.

Those who claim they are no longer sinning...they're liars and cheats, betraying only themselves and those foolish enough to believe and follow them.

MM
 
Funny that the Lord says He is going to judge people by their deeds:

Romans 2:6
He will judge everyone according to what they have done.

1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


Faith without corresponding action is not saving faith

Those that accept the whole counsel of God know this because they don't through the Book of James out like their boy luther the drunkard false teacher

It sounds as though you're injecting "salvation" into that judgment. Again, adding to the word of God what conveniently fits with one's personal agenda and beliefs, that's the grounding of so much of Westernized, false religion that's of socially engineered origins.

If you think you're retaining your salvation on the basis of your efforts, then you're on your own given that none of us is good enough to retain a salvation that is ONLY by grace ONLY through faith alone. Coupling it with anything else is false. Until you can define where that line rests, you're parroting the same old fallacies of pop-culture, post-modern Christianity so far as what can be seen from your words thus far. Granted, your beliefs have historical roots in Roman Catholicism, so you may very well be aligned with that gang more than you realize given that they too believe as what you have stated, only that they have more definition as to sacraments must be performed in order to stay on the saving side of that imaginary line.

MM
 
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Those who claim they are no longer sinning...they're liars and cheats

Actually they are submitting to the leading of the Holy Spirit Who leads nobody to continue living in sin.

It's those claiming to be sinners who reject the whole counsel of God making themselves in to liars and cheats

They follow false teachers who speak for the devil having been tricked in to continuing in sin which is why they go around proudly proclaiming "I'm still a sinner"

They say this because they fundamentally misunderstand the Gospel of Jesus Christ due to their ignorance having been blinded in to following doctrines of demons instead of accepting and following the whole counsel of God.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

When they say "I'm still a sinner" they are saying they are of the devil as we see in 1 John 3:8
 
Actually they are submitting to the leading of the Holy Spirit Who leads nobody to continue living in sin.

The idea of grace leading to living in sin as preached by Paul, that's a fabrication from out of the warped imaginings of the lost.

It's those claiming to be sinners who reject the whole counsel of God making themselves in to liars and cheats

Not necessarily:

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So, are you now saying that those who lay claim to sinning no more are correct, and that such people exist on this earth, in this life? Are you saying that YOU are without sin? After all, if you don't sin any longer, then are you not laying claim to the very thing this verse speaks against?

Now, granted, there are false teaching pastors out there who teach what is contrary to this, thus drawing along after them followers into the pits of Hell. The further clafirication is this:

Romans 7:16-18
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

If one tells even one lie, is he not a liar? When one sins even once, is he not a sinner?

Romans 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So, is it your contention, then, that this somehow leads to some understanding in your mind that the truly saved are otherwise from what Paul stated here?

Please clarify.

MM
 
What Paul did in his early ministry versus what he did later, with his getting to the point that he baptized no more because of the spiritual baptism that already takes place at the point of salvation by grace through faith alone, adding anything else is another gospel in relation to the body of Christ today. As an Israeli, I fully appreciate what Paul taught along this line because I'm well acquainted with the Law and its bondages, even down at the level of good works only.

You are interjecting
Sorry, but your invention of doctrine on the basis of what Paul did through the earliest stages of his ministry, and assuming into his actions some sort of silent command to the body of Christ, that's a level of cultic falsehood that most Th.D education taught us to avoid entirely. That's the playground of all the armchair experts out there who love their following being sold out completely to that false system of hermeneutics.
Once again you are interjecting

What's wonderful, however, is that we all have a choice as to either relying ONLY on what scripture teaches without the injections...and going along with group-think on each of the many band wagons cutting their ruts deep into the soils of falsehoods, thus trapping the wagons into those ruts of falsehoods.

MM
You continue to interject. You do this..a lot.
 
You are interjecting

Once again you are interjecting


You continue to interject. You do this..a lot.

It's interesting that you quoted no scripture nor specified what was allegedly interjected by me. Care to back up your claims? That would be appreciated.

MM