What exactly is our soul?

[UnoiAmarah]

So, Genesis describes sexually overstimulated sons of God in heaven who are willing to leave heaven (fly?) to earth to breed with human women and from those unions children are born.

Or Genesis could describe the males who were created in the beginning, to whom each was given a helpmate to cleave unto as their wifes...

Spoiler: Unicorns

So it came to pass when men (the males and females) began to multiply upon the face of the earth, that sons and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God (the created males) saw that the daughters of men (males and females) were fair and took unto themselves these first generation females as their wives, in addition the helpmates that the LORD had already made from them, for them.
And when these males (sons of God), that the LORD had made in the beginning, had taken all the first generation daughters born unto them as their wives, man had corrupted the LORD's way; and the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[biblestudent78]

Are you in denial that these things will come to pass according to God's plan? They are no different than his wiping out of humanity in the flood.

No. It is very different. This not death by drowning. This is systematic enduring torture. It is a sadomasochistic fantasy. This is a Jesus out for revenge. This is a Jesus who delights in the agony He suffered visited on humans. And no, I do not "believe" in the biblical universal flood or the Akkadian or the Sumerian ones either. I believe that book of Revelation as a genre we do not have today, Approphal. No book of the bible was written to some future generation of mankind skipping over those to whom it was written for thousands of years. Thus, I believe that the book was written to those who at that time were experiencing some persecution those who were not, had anxieties about Rome bringing it on them. I believe the book of Revelation has nothing theological for us today. In my opinion Revelation is a blank check for those who value fantasy and horror as the most important aspects of Christianity as it is the last book, the final thing God wanted us to focus on. Jesus's bloodlust against humans. The ultimate "stick" in God's divine "carrot and stick" will.

If you accept much of the last 450 yrs of Protestant theology, Revelation is even worse. At the core of Protestant theology is the concept that we have nothing to do with our own salvation. God chooses who he will and won't save and there is nothing we can do about it. Thus, in light of the Revelation, God is not only choosing the winners, but he already knows who is going to hell long before they are born and there is nothing they can do to save themselves. Knowing also, that "few" will be saved, it means God is fuelling hell with virtually every human ever born, babies though the oldest. No hope. Hell bound from conception.

On the other hand, books get written and are largely rejected.. as was Revelation for over 300 yrs. Then the 4th century controversies arose over the nature and relationship of God, Jesus and much much later the Holy Spirit. Defenders of their definitions used all the "inspired" books in circulation as fuel for one side or the other. The book or Revelation demonstrates the interoperability and harmony of God and Jesus in bringing vengeance on the human race, but it did help their argument about the existence of both God and Jesus separately yet in unity so it was canonized. Those early Christians were under great pressure, so a book telling them what would happen to them if they turned away was "useful."

 

[biblestudent78]

The Apocrypha refers to a specific collection of intertestamental books considered non-canonical or
deuterocanonical by various Christian traditions, often seen as "hidden" or secondary. Conversely,
apocalyptic is a literary genre (e.g., Daniel, Revelation) defined by symbolic, visionary writing
revealing heavenly mysteries or the end of the world.

As any bible student knows there are a number of genres contained in the 66, 73,81 books of the Bible. Among them are poetry, hymns, wisdom literature, history, theology, political treatises, erotica, lamentations and end times eschatology. Each must be read and understood for what it is. Every book was written by men (women are excluded) and were later edited, harmonized and rebutted. Every type of book deserves our close attention and understanding of the framework in which it exists.

 

[Magenta]

As any bible student knows there are a number of genres contained in the 66, 73,81 books of the Bible. Among them are poetry, hymns, wisdom literature, history, theology, political treatises, erotica, lamentations and end times eschatology. Each must be read and understood for what it is. Every book was written by men (women are excluded) and were later edited, harmonized and rebutted. Every type of book deserves our close attention and understanding of the framework in which it exists.

Revelation is not apocryphal literature, because it is Spirit-inspired Scripture, and part of the canon, which apocryphal literature is not.

 

[biblestudent78]

Revelation is not apocryphal literature, because it is Spirit-inspired Scripture, and part of the canon, which apocryphal literature is not.

The logic does not hold. Aprophal is a type of literature that is somewhat out of vogue. Your observation is that a kind of literature by its nature cannot spirit -inspired then we must include songs(psalms), lamentations are just the verbal frustrations of someone, love stories such as Ester (a Godless book) historical essays, political essays, science fiction ect cannot be "spirit-inspired either because they are not delivering the what you have determined is Spirit-inspired scripture.

Apocryphal means hidden or mysterious. 1.5 billion christians believe apocryphal writings to be authoritative. Perhaps you too believe apocryphal words are Spirit-inspired scripture. The single most important book to the Jews of 150BC and later in Christianity is book of Enoch. It is full of imagery of angelic wars and good and bad angels and the superpowers of evil forces leveraging among other biblical stories. The Book of Enoch (1 Enoch) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic text focusing on divine judgment, the fall of angelic "Watchers" who corrupted humanity, and the coming of a messianic "Son of Man". A major section, often called the Book of the Watchers, details how angels (led by Samyaza and Azazel) descended to earth, married human women, and produced the Nephilim giants, bringing violence, sin, and forbidden knowledge (such as sorcery and metallurgy) to mankind. My guess is that you would say this not Spirit Inspired, but before you do... The New Testament writer who quotes the Book of Enoch (specifically 1 Enoch 1:9) is Jude, the brother of James and the half-brother of Jesus, in Jude 1:14-15. In this passage, Jude quotes directly from the book of Enoch as a prophet, predicting the Lord’s coming judgment against the ungodly, which directly matches the text found in the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch.

Thus a Spirit-inspired book in the New Testament quotes from a book that is both a apocryphal and a pseudepigraphal.

 

[Magenta]

The logic does not hold. Aprophal is a type of literature that is somewhat out of vogue. Your observation is that a kind of literature by its nature cannot spirit -inspired then we must include songs(psalms), lamentations are just the verbal frustrations of someone, love stories such as Ester (a Godless book) historical essays, political essays, science fiction ect cannot be "spirit-inspired either because they are not delivering the what you have determined is Spirit-inspired scripture.

Apocryphal means hidden or mysterious. 1.5 billion christians believe apocryphal writings to be authoritative. Perhaps you too believe apocryphal words are Spirit-inspired scripture. The single most important book to the Jews of 150BC and later in Christianity is book of Enoch. It is full of imagery of angelic wars and good and bad angels and the superpowers of evil forces leveraging among other biblical stories. The Book of Enoch (1 Enoch) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic text focusing on divine judgment, the fall of angelic "Watchers" who corrupted humanity, and the coming of a messianic "Son of Man". A major section, often called the Book of the Watchers, details how angels (led by Samyaza and Azazel) descended to earth, married human women, and produced the Nephilim giants, bringing violence, sin, and forbidden knowledge (such as sorcery and metallurgy) to mankind. My guess is that you would say this not Spirit Inspired, but before you do... The New Testament writer who quotes the Book of Enoch (specifically 1 Enoch 1:9) is Jude, the brother of James and the half-brother of Jesus, in Jude 1:14-15. In this passage, Jude quotes directly from the book of Enoch as a prophet, predicting the Lord’s coming judgment against the ungodly, which directly matches the text found in the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch.

Thus a Spirit-inspired book in the New Testament quotes from a book that is both a apocryphal and a pseudepigraphal.

Enoch was not considered inspired. Lots of people are confused about this. You add to their confusion.

 

[biblestudent78]

Enoch was not considered inspired. Lots of people are confused about this. You add to their confusion.

You make declarative statements based only on your authority. My point you chose not to deal with is the very book you claim is "not considered inspired" is quoted by someone you believe is authoritative. Is Jude no longer authorative because via the "inspiration of the Holy Spirit" he quotes Enoch which you claim is not "inspired."

Jesus self-identifies as the Son of Man which is a term used 17 times in the book of Enoch. The book foretells of the "Righteous One" and the "Chosen One". While the Book of Daniel completed around 167 BC alludes to an "ancient of days," Enoch speaking about the Son of Man expands this role to include active judgment of kings and the mighty, removing them from their thrones and reversing the fortunes of the poor and oppressed. Explain to me why "Daniel" is spirit-inspired and Enoch is not. Which is a better witness of Jesus?

 

[Magenta]

You make declarative statements based only on your authority. My point you chose not to deal with is the very book you claim is "not considered inspired" is quoted by someone you believe is authoritative. Is Jude no longer authorative because via the "inspiration of the Holy Spirit" he quotes Enoch which you claim is not "inspired."

Jesus self-identifies as the Son of Man which is a term used 17 times in the book of Enoch. The book foretells of the "Righteous One" and the "Chosen One". While the Book of Daniel completed around 167 BC alludes to an "ancient of days," Enoch speaking about the Son of Man expands this role to include active judgment of kings and the mighty, removing them from their thrones and reversing the fortunes of the poor and oppressed. Explain to me why "Daniel" is spirit-inspired and Enoch is not. Which is a better witness of Jesus?

It is not my claim but history's. Hey, are you aware that a person can be quoted? Yeah. It happens.
People like Jesus quoted those who came before Him. Does that mean He was quoting a book?
You seem to think there are no alternatives. You are wrong.

Of the Apocrypha, Josephus says: “We do not possess myriads
of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books,
those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty
[the equivalent of the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures
according to modern division], and contain the record of all time.”

As to the book of Enoch being found with the Dead Sea Scrolls: the
Dead Sea Scrolls contain all kinds of documents, not just Scripture.
For instance, calendars, commentaries, songbooks, community
regulations, and/or historical documents unearthed at Qumran
should also not be considered to be part of the Bible. The Qumran
library was much more than just Biblical manuscripts.

Enoch was never part of the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[GWH]

Enoch was not considered inspired. Lots of people are confused about this. You add to their confusion.

Yes, Enoch the man may have made a good point (Jude 14-16), but Enoch was not one of the Apostles,
nor specially called to be an apostle as Paul was (Acts 9), so the book of Enoch has the same authority as what we write.

 

[biblestudent78]

Yes, Enoch the man may have made a good point (Jude 14-16), but Enoch was not one of the Apostles,
nor specially called to be an apostle as Paul was (Acts 9), so the book of Enoch has the same authority as what we write.

You are missing my point.
Enoch is not in the New Testament canon that was agreed to over 300 years after Jesus. However, the use of quotations in the New Testament from other libraries is used to validate a "Christian" point. For instance, the Apostle Paul quotes Hebrew Bible verses over 80 times in just the book of Romans. Why? Because he and those to whom he was writing also believed the Hebrew Bible to be authoritative.

Today to say the Hebrew Bible is authoritative is anathema. The very concept is rejected by the vast majority of Christians as I suspect you are one. Thus, what the Apostles believed authoritative is rejected as it fails to meet our dogmas.

When it come to Jesus, we essentially reject Jesus's longest narrative. Our dogmas prevent Jesus words from applying to us. We are saved by a 60 second pulpit prayer and we are specifically told to avoid anything that might be the dreaded "works." You soul is saved so your body is irreverent. The Gospel is all about saving souls and people just don't matter. "I got mine" is our most unspoken catechism.

Jesus teaches the exact opposite of the dogmas that evolved from the fat Monk Luder. Saved by faith through grace alone we repeat but we define "faith" as mere belief. If you believe right heaven is guaranteed and no matter how pathological your life, it is guaranteed. In fact, the only thing that makes your heavenly guarantee of eternal heaven invalid is you think that Jesus cares what you do, what you say or who you become. You are guaranteed by what you claim to believe! Nothing else matters!

On the other hand, long before that Monk redefined Christianity as mental and emotional versus real, Jesus had a different perspective:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

If one in not fully encapsulated in the Modern Dogma that works are the enemy of faith, Jesus words might leak through. You many not reject God's mission for your life in exchange for cheap salvation of convenience, comfort, self-centeredness and and self-righteousness......"Look at all the things I say I believe" which is 21st Century Christianity explanation why Jesus has no interest in my service, commitment to love as He loved, how He loved and whom He loved. Paul sniffed out this ruse. He declared that proclamations of faith were just noise if you don't have love for God and your neighbors.

We have strayed a long way from the central reality of Christianity. We believe in and put out faith in the person and mission (works) of Jesus Christ. We are willing to take up our cross (works) and be His voice of love (works) and commitment to people (works) not just their souls.

Everyone wants to be saved - at the cheapest cost to us - but few have the faith needed to be converted and to experience a genuine new life day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year of sacrificial love, sacrificial life, sacrificial ego. A commitment to focus the love on God and the obedience of God on mankind, not their souls but their blood pumping hearts, arms, feet and heads and knees of our neighbor. Jesus requires our lives to be a light to a dark world (works). He asks us to be healers (works), reconcilers (works) examples of Godly living (works) and provisioners of all in need, mentally, physically and spiritually. (works)

But of course we are not "saved by work) i.e. who you are and what you do. We are guaranteed heaven because we have the right dogmas.

 

[Burn1986]

Technically your mind, will, emotions, logic/ reasoning

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As far as I can determine, the Hebrew Bible does not contain the concept that humans have a soul. Historically, one can see in the struggles during the worst of the Greek persecutions in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC, a growing spiritual crisis brought on by Greek brutality. "How can God let us be so persecuted by such evil men but we all wind up in the same place after death?" (sheol - essentially the grave) Thus, parts of the book of Daniel written in the 160's BC begin to express a desire for postmortem divine reward and punishment. The apocryphal books authored in this period extensively fantasize about a vibrant afterlife but do not evolve clearly a theology of what 1st century Christians would call the soul.

Prior Egyptian theology had clear concepts of the soul by not always fully separate from the body, thus they embalmed their Pharaohs and important people for their trip through the afterlife, but provided food and tools they may need to use after death.

Over time, after the 4th century AD, Christian theology now the state religion, the soul slowly became the "true identity" and "true value" of a human being. Thus, it was not long before the idea was it was just and proper to torcher the body to save the soul demonstrating what was valuable about a human was only their soul. Many Christians, both Roman Catholic and Protestant had no qualms about burning people at the stake because their bodies were immaterial and in their pain and suffering their soul might find salvation. Christians launched 3 major Crusades against various groups including Muslims enabled and emboldened by the Popes (several) promise of eternal salvation of the their souls should they die. Christianity, by and large, came to believe that our soul is our "true self."

As we do not experience anything in life that we can call our soul separate from our consciousness, if our soul is our true self, how would we know that if we did not read about it? Is there a relationship between or mind and what we think is our soul? Or is our soul undetectable by our minds or bodies? If it is undetectable, how can our souls be any part of us? Is our soul customized in some way that makes it "ours?" Does our souls contain memories separate and apart from our brains or minds? Most Christians believe in some way that when our souls get to heaven we will retain all the memories that once only our brains retained. So, do our souls have memories and thoughts and emotions that exactly match what we have in our brains now? Is there any other characteristic about our soul other than we believe it eternal? Does our soul play any detectable part in our daily life? Is there anyway to connect to our soul except through our imagination? If our soul is our "true self" how would we know that other than having been told that? Is our soul the non-human part of being human?

Or is our concept of the soul the universal human experience fueled by of our inability to see our death as final?

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A living soul seems to be what we are , and we seem to have or possess a body of flesh and blood created by God from the dust . And have a living spirit breathed into mankind at creation which gave them life and made them a living soul . So possibly in places like this

“and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe it could read “ with all thy heart and with all thy “ bieng “ or all “thy self , rather than speaking if it as only a segment of us or possession we have to live God with .

maybe saying” save someones soul “ is saying save someone ….

i believe the soul is the whole person body and spirit together making the person a living soul . As the creation story states when god formed us and then breathed into our nostrils we became a living soul but the body and spirit

“For ye ( a living soul ) are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


also the context could be determining things or in other words “ how the word is being used within the context of what’s being said by the writer

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this seems to be used in a different way from this segment for instance

“let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some seems to be speaking from this perspective and usage “ man became a living soul “ ie “ …..save a soul from death “ “ let every soul be subject to authority “


and others are used in different ways like “ the believers were all of one heart and one soul “

In one case it seems to be applied o individually to describe a persons whole being . And on the other ot seems to be speaking of a unified “ spirit “ and shared feeling and motivation among all the believers .

i think context sort of explains what’s there like genesis two “ man became a living soul “ this lends to teach us “ man is a living soul “ god formed our body and breathed into us the spirit of life and we then became a living soul. This seems to be concerning who man is

later though when the context is different “love god with your soul” , the dividing of “ spirit and soul “ I saw under the altar the souls of nt hen who were slain ..” ect

I believe man is a soul

 

[biblestudent78]

Technically your mind, will, emotions, logic/ reasoning

"Technically?" Please elaborate.

 

[Reddogs]

You are missing my point.
Enoch is not in the New Testament canon that was agreed to over 300 years after Jesus. However, the use of quotations in the New Testament from other libraries is used to validate a "Christian" point. For instance, the Apostle Paul quotes Hebrew Bible verses over 80 times in just the book of Romans. Why? Because he and those to whom he was writing also believed the Hebrew Bible to be authoritative.

Today to say the Hebrew Bible is authoritative is anathema. The very concept is rejected by the vast majority of Christians as I suspect you are one. Thus, what the Apostles believed authoritative is rejected as it fails to meet our dogmas.

When it come to Jesus, we essentially reject Jesus's longest narrative. Our dogmas prevent Jesus words from applying to us. We are saved by a 60 second pulpit prayer and we are specifically told to avoid anything that might be the dreaded "works." You soul is saved so your body is irreverent. The Gospel is all about saving souls and people just don't matter. "I got mine" is our most unspoken catechism.

Jesus teaches the exact opposite of the dogmas that evolved from the fat Monk Luder. Saved by faith through grace alone we repeat but we define "faith" as mere belief. If you believe right heaven is guaranteed and no matter how pathological your life, it is guaranteed. In fact, the only thing that makes your heavenly guarantee of eternal heaven invalid is you think that Jesus cares what you do, what you say or who you become. You are guaranteed by what you claim to believe! Nothing else matters!

On the other hand, long before that Monk redefined Christianity as mental and emotional versus real, Jesus had a different perspective:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

If one in not fully encapsulated in the Modern Dogma that works are the enemy of faith, Jesus words might leak through. You many not reject God's mission for your life in exchange for cheap salvation of convenience, comfort, self-centeredness and and self-righteousness......"Look at all the things I say I believe" which is 21st Century Christianity explanation why Jesus has no interest in my service, commitment to love as He loved, how He loved and whom He loved. Paul sniffed out this ruse. He declared that proclamations of faith were just noise if you don't have love for God and your neighbors.

We have strayed a long way from the central reality of Christianity. We believe in and put out faith in the person and mission (works) of Jesus Christ. We are willing to take up our cross (works) and be His voice of love (works) and commitment to people (works) not just their souls.

Everyone wants to be saved - at the cheapest cost to us - but few have the faith needed to be converted and to experience a genuine new life day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year of sacrificial love, sacrificial life, sacrificial ego. A commitment to focus the love on God and the obedience of God on mankind, not their souls but their blood pumping hearts, arms, feet and heads and knees of our neighbor. Jesus requires our lives to be a light to a dark world (works). He asks us to be healers (works), reconcilers (works) examples of Godly living (works) and provisioners of all in need, mentally, physically and spiritually. (works)

But of course we are not "saved by work) i.e. who you are and what you do. We are guaranteed heaven because we have the right dogmas.

Very true, the writings or Enoch are full of doctrines of demons and worse, so was quickly seen for what it was and excluded from Canon..

 

[biblestudent78]

Very true, the writings or Enoch are full of doctrines of demons and worse, so was quickly seen for what it was and excluded from Canon..

However, the Son of Man title took from 6th century BC visions of Ezekiel and from 2nd century 1st Enoch.

 

[Reddogs]

Technically your mind, will, emotions, logic/ reasoning

The soul is the whole of a human being, its what makes you who you are, as no two persons are alike, not even twins. We may all have the same parts and look similar but each person has their own characteristics that make up their personality, their walk, their talk, how the smile and laugh. God knows each and everything of you down to the last hair, so at the resurrection He will recreate you pefectly, but without the defects of sin..

 

[Reddogs]

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A living soul seems to be what we are , and we seem to have or possess a body of flesh and blood created by God from the dust . And have a living spirit breathed into mankind at creation which gave them life and made them a living soul . So possibly in places like this

“and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe it could read “ with all thy heart and with all thy “ bieng “ or all “thy self , rather than speaking if it as only a segment of us or possession we have to live God with .

maybe saying” save someones soul “ is saying save someone ….

i believe the soul is the whole person body and spirit together making the person a living soul . As the creation story states when god formed us and then breathed into our nostrils we became a living soul but the body and spirit

“For ye ( a living soul ) are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


also the context could be determining things or in other words “ how the word is being used within the context of what’s being said by the writer

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this seems to be used in a different way from this segment for instance

“let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some seems to be speaking from this perspective and usage “ man became a living soul “ ie “ …..save a soul from death “ “ let every soul be subject to authority “


and others are used in different ways like “ the believers were all of one heart and one soul “

In one case it seems to be applied o individually to describe a persons whole being . And on the other ot seems to be speaking of a unified “ spirit “ and shared feeling and motivation among all the believers .

i think context sort of explains what’s there like genesis two “ man became a living soul “ this lends to teach us “ man is a living soul “ god formed our body and breathed into us the spirit of life and we then became a living soul. This seems to be concerning who man is

later though when the context is different “love god with your soul” , the dividing of “ spirit and soul “ I saw under the altar the souls of nt hen who were slain ..” ect

I believe man is a soul

Amen..

 

[GWH]

You are missing my point.
Enoch is not in the New Testament canon that was agreed to over 300 years after Jesus. However, the use of quotations in the New Testament from other libraries is used to validate a "Christian" point. For instance, the Apostle Paul quotes Hebrew Bible verses over 80 times in just the book of Romans. Why? Because he and those to whom he was writing also believed the Hebrew Bible to be authoritative.

Today to say the Hebrew Bible is authoritative is anathema. The very concept is rejected by the vast majority of Christians as I suspect you are one. Thus, what the Apostles believed authoritative is rejected as it fails to meet our dogmas.

When it come to Jesus, we essentially reject Jesus's longest narrative. Our dogmas prevent Jesus words from applying to us. We are saved by a 60 second pulpit prayer and we are specifically told to avoid anything that might be the dreaded "works." You soul is saved so your body is irreverent. The Gospel is all about saving souls and people just don't matter. "I got mine" is our most unspoken catechism.

Jesus teaches the exact opposite of the dogmas that evolved from the fat Monk Luder. Saved by faith through grace alone we repeat but we define "faith" as mere belief. If you believe right heaven is guaranteed and no matter how pathological your life, it is guaranteed. In fact, the only thing that makes your heavenly guarantee of eternal heaven invalid is you think that Jesus cares what you do, what you say or who you become. You are guaranteed by what you claim to believe! Nothing else matters!

On the other hand, long before that Monk redefined Christianity as mental and emotional versus real, Jesus had a different perspective:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

If one in not fully encapsulated in the Modern Dogma that works are the enemy of faith, Jesus words might leak through. You many not reject God's mission for your life in exchange for cheap salvation of convenience, comfort, self-centeredness and and self-righteousness......"Look at all the things I say I believe" which is 21st Century Christianity explanation why Jesus has no interest in my service, commitment to love as He loved, how He loved and whom He loved. Paul sniffed out this ruse. He declared that proclamations of faith were just noise if you don't have love for God and your neighbors.

We have strayed a long way from the central reality of Christianity. We believe in and put out faith in the person and mission (works) of Jesus Christ. We are willing to take up our cross (works) and be His voice of love (works) and commitment to people (works) not just their souls.

Everyone wants to be saved - at the cheapest cost to us - but few have the faith needed to be converted and to experience a genuine new life day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year of sacrificial love, sacrificial life, sacrificial ego. A commitment to focus the love on God and the obedience of God on mankind, not their souls but their blood pumping hearts, arms, feet and heads and knees of our neighbor. Jesus requires our lives to be a light to a dark world (works). He asks us to be healers (works), reconcilers (works) examples of Godly living (works) and provisioners of all in need, mentally, physically and spiritually. (works)

But of course we are not "saved by work) i.e. who you are and what you do. We are guaranteed heaven because we have the right dogmas.

Well, the way I would boil down what you said is that GW must be correctly interpreted, which is what I attempt to do in my five point credo. Do you agree with it?

 

[biblestudent78]

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A living soul seems to be what we are , and we seem to have or possess a body of flesh and blood created by God from the dust . And have a living spirit breathed into mankind at creation which gave them life and made them a living soul . So possibly in places like this

“and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe it could read “ with all thy heart and with all thy “ bieng “ or all “thy self , rather than speaking if it as only a segment of us or possession we have to live God with .

maybe saying” save someones soul “ is saying save someone ….

i believe the soul is the whole person body and spirit together making the person a living soul . As the creation story states when god formed us and then breathed into our nostrils we became a living soul but the body and spirit

“For ye ( a living soul ) are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


also the context could be determining things or in other words “ how the word is being used within the context of what’s being said by the writer

“And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this seems to be used in a different way from this segment for instance

“let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some seems to be speaking from this perspective and usage “ man became a living soul “ ie “ …..save a soul from death “ “ let every soul be subject to authority “


and others are used in different ways like “ the believers were all of one heart and one soul “

In one case it seems to be applied o individually to describe a persons whole being . And on the other ot seems to be speaking of a unified “ spirit “ and shared feeling and motivation among all the believers .

i think context sort of explains what’s there like genesis two “ man became a living soul “ this lends to teach us “ man is a living soul “ god formed our body and breathed into us the spirit of life and we then became a living soul. This seems to be concerning who man is

later though when the context is different “love god with your soul” , the dividing of “ spirit and soul “ I saw under the altar the souls of nt hen who were slain ..” ect

I believe man is a soul

Relying a 17th century old english edited version of a 15th century bible translation to get words that may your point, seems a bit sketchy to me. As for Gen 1:7 all major translation including the NKJV use the word "being." The Ezekiel quote is mostly translated without the word "soul" but it does not matter because the context of the verse is about sinning. The soul of person does not sin. Only a person/being can sin.

 

[Reddogs]

Well, here is a good study by my buddy Amo on what is a soul that may make it clearer..
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

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AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

Eccl 12:5..….. because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?

Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.

Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy

5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.

Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is it’s end. When life ends, it ends.

Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.

Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.

Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.

Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.

Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?

Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Again, why wold a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.

Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.

Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.