A Distinction In Speaking in Tongues

[Wansvic]

For what? That people can imitate a gift? or perhaps have demonic tongues?

Why don't you pray for the gift of healing? People need to be healed.

But like I said, go yap at someone else.

Be cautious, words matter. Everyone will be held accountable for every idle word spoken.


Matt 12:32-37
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[Wansvic]

Your prayers are answered! I reject the teaching of oneness pentecostalism and no one has done more to make that happen than you! Congrats! I can reject your doctrine with utter confidence because I have and I do research the scriptures. I am not on any journey to help you with your false doctrine. Mercy me....in no way


There is nothing you can tell me about the use of tongues in congregations....which I have found to be mostly false. The Holy Spirit does not at all interpret. Hey listen....if things were actually as wonderful as truth being proclaimed through human vessels in the power of the Holy Spirit, churches WOULD BE PACKED.

Such hostility is truly mind boggling...

 

[pinebeach]

Such hostility is truly mind boggling...

You have zero ability to discredit scripture so now you resort to personal attacks against me. No love lost here, eh? Like I said, if a person is actually filled with the Holy Spirit, they will reflect Jesus and not resort to attempts at starting arguements because they cannot answer to the truth.

 

[pinebeach]

I can say with utter truth that tongues are not going to get anyone into heaven. I'm not sure what will happen to those who put tongues above actual salvation through the blood of Christ.

Baptism is not going to get anyone into heaven either.

We are saved by faith in Christ, believing that the sinless blood He shed on the cross was to gain salvation for those who call upon Him. It is through the grace of God sending His one and only begotten Son to die for the purpose of our salvation that we are saved.

It is reported in the book of Acts that Peter spoke of those things....Jesus, faith, forgiveness and so on.

It is not reported that Peter said that unless everyone was speaking in tongues that could be understood by everyone around them they could call on God all day and salvation would pass them by. Yet, that is what you are saying. What do you suppose God may think of someone who bypasses His gift and goes on and on and on about tongues when even Paul the Apostle says not all speak in/with tongues.

I understand there are unknown tongues, praying in tongues and so on, BUT your reference is always to Acts and everyone in the upper room speaking in tongues. It is NOT recorded that all those saved by hearing the actual gospel were doing the same.

You know, I'm now leaning towards oneness being a cult since cults major in minors.

 

[Wansvic]

You know, I think the scripture about the tongue setting the world on fire is something you should pay more attention to.

IT'S NOT ABOUT TONGUES. ITS ABOUT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU NEVER SEEM TO TALK ABOUT.

James chapter three alludes to speaking in tongues.

I find it fascinating when God enters a person He takes control of the one thing man cannot control as evidence of His abiding presence; the tongue.

"For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame;" (James 3:7-8) However, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26)

In addition, on the Day of Pentecost a flame resembling a cloven tongue appeared above each person when the Spirit entered their body. This record in Acts brings to mind a couple things considering each believer is to be God's dwelling place upon rebirth:

1. The Israelites knew when God was present in the darkness of night by the pillar of flame that appeared above the Old Testament tabernacle. (Exodus 25:8, 22, 29:43,40:34-38)

2. The cloven tongue would appear to represent that there are two types of tongues: One as the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and two; the Spiritual gift of tongues.

 

[pinebeach]

For the record, I am not a cessationist. However I reject all false teaching on the gifts and the misuse of the gifts and
the false teaching in this thread.

Salvation is only through Jesus. Tongues do not save you; in fact they are one of the most rejected gifts by people who are up to
here with all the fake tongues.

Baptism does not save you. Water washes away dirt, but not the stain of sin so saying you are not saved if you are not tongues talking and baptized only the way that oneness tells you is harmful and false.

And the gospel is still about Jesus.

 

[presidente]

Yes. Tongues is the sign that the Holy Ghost has come to dwell in a person. And, as we know, the Holy Ghost is essential for salvation. (John 3:3-5, Rom. 8:9)

I Corinthians 14
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
(NKJV)

 

[Wansvic]

Perverse. Right. So God is just going to distribute gifts to people who do not know what to do with them. It appears you put more weight on signs and wonders then in sanctification. Tongues served a purpose as we read in Acts....over 2000 were saved and the gospel was preached for the first time.

Now go ahead and make that happen since you think everyone must speak in tongues the moment they accept Christ. You have the logic of a brick and that's a compliment.

That helps to explain the distortion of Christianity that so many people suffer from these days.

I would rather not have any sort of spiritual gift than be blind to the fact you gift/tongues people do not seek Christ.

You insult people with your deviation from scripture. It's disgusting.

You misunderstand. It is not tongues that are being sought. It is the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

Scripture reveals people are to pursue being indwelt by God's Spirit if it hasn't happened yet. Tongues is just a manisfestation proving people have received what they sought; the Holy Spirit has begun to communicate directly with our renewed spirit.

Are you unaware that Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask? (Luke 11:13) Now, think about it, how is one to know whether they have received the Holy Spirit or not? And, how did Philip and the Samaritans know they had not received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 8:12-18) Also, Paul's question to the Ephesians indicated they should know if they had received the Holy Spirit. How could they know if they had, if there was no way of identifying that the experience had occurred? (Acts 19:1-7)

Lastly, Jesus said those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be FILLED. (Mark 5:6)

 

[presidente]

James chapter three alludes to speaking in tongues.

I find it fascinating when God enters a person He takes control of the one thing man cannot control as evidence of His abiding presence; the tongue.

"For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame;" (James 3:7-8) However, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26)

Preachers using a verse while preaching on tongues and a verse actually _alluding_ to speaking in tongues is two different things. James goes on to talk about not cursing one's brother with the same mouth one blesses God with... so no reference to speaking in tongues.

2. The cloven tongue would appear to represent that there are two types of tongues: One as the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and two; the Spiritual gift of tongues.

I was raised in Pentecostalism, and this allegorical interpretation of yours looks just bizarre to me. Is this common with the Oneness 'gotta speak in tongues to be saved' crowd? I'd imagine scripture on the topic is so scant, preachers gotta get creative if they are going to hold to that viewpoint.

 

[Ceph]

Another thing to notice:
In all the Gospels Jesus does mention the Holy Spirit several times.
So there is a discrepency between what those people who believed heard, and what the whole Gospel says.

 

[pinebeach]

You misunderstand. It is not tongues that are being sought. It is the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

Scripture reveals people are to pursue being indwelt by God's Spirit if it hasn't happened yet. Tongues is just a manisfestation proving people have received what they sought; the Holy Spirit has begun to communicate directly with our renewed spirit.

Are you unaware that Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask? (Luke 11:13) Now, think about it, how is one to know whether they have received the Holy Spirit or not? And, how did Philip and the Samaritans know they had not received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 8:12-18) Also, Paul's question to the Ephesians indicated they should know if they had received the Holy Spirit. How could they know if they had, if there was no way of identifying that the experience had occurred? (Acts 19:1-7)
Lastly, Jesus said those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be FILLED. (Mark 5:6)

Lame

You misunderstand if you think this new approach is going over. I don't have to think about how a person knows when they receive the Holy Spirit because scripture tells us. Most people who have a genuine experience with Jesus talk about their changed heart. NOT how a strange language no one understands suddenly manifested

The moment you receive Christ you are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

So you think Jesus meant speaking in tongues if we hunger and thirst after righteousness? That's a new low even coming from you.

 

[Wansvic]

Yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. I Cor. 14:19

14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4&He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

You neglected to include Paul's words just prior to what you posted. The scriptures give insight into the two distinct manifestations of tongues:

" For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, AND I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" 1 Cor 14:14-18

Note, in verse 16-17 he says eventhough others don't understand what is being spoken between man's renewed spirit and God's Spirit the one speaking in tongues IS thanking God... The manifestation is the means of communication between God and the individual.

 

[pinebeach]

You neglected to include Paul's words just prior to what you posted. The scriptures give insight into the two distinct manifestations of tongues:

Good thing I'm not listening to you as I drive cause I would drive into a pole having fallen asleep at your never ending insistence that you must be listened to.

Actually there are more than 2. If you know so much, you should know that.

 

[indenturedservant]

Scripture reveals and confirms speaking in tongues is the sign that the Holy Ghost has come to dwell in a person. It was prophesied by Joel that God would pour out His Spirit on ALL FLESH, and Peter said what the people were hearing was the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:16-17, 33) Peter states that receiving the Holy Ghost is a gift available to all those whom Jesus’ calls. (Acts 2:38-39)

The Apostle Peter proclaimed the appointed message to the Jews first:
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” Acts 2:38-39

Peter carried the message to the Gentiles as well. And when they received the Holy Ghost everyone spoke in tongues. (Acts 10:44-48)

The Samaritans, a mixed breed of Jew and Gentile, hear the same message through Philip the evangelist. (Acts 8:12-17) The group believes, and submits to water baptism in the name of Jesus. However, Philip realizes they did not receive the Holy Ghost. STOP.

Ask yourself how Philip knew the group had not received the Holy Ghost? Clearly something was missing. It is revealed when Simon saw that the Holy Ghost was given through the laying on of hands he offered money. (Acts 8:18) Again, ask yourself how Simon knew someone had received the Holy Ghost after having hands laid upon them.

Lastly, the Apostle Paul comes across some disciples at Ephesus. The first question he asks is “Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?” If there was no identifiable sign, how were the people expected to know if they had received the Holy Ghost? (Acts 19:3-9)

Paul provided the disciples with accurate information that they believed and obeyed. After the 12 received the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues Paul stayed in Ephesus and taught others as well. (Acts 19:8) Many refused to believe Paul and spoke evil of that way so he departed from them. (Acts 19:9)

Note as well, God is the only one that can take control of the tongue.
"For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame;" (James 3:7-8) However, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26)

In addition, on the Day of Pentecost a flame resembling a cloven tongue appeared above each person when the Spirit entered their body and they began speaking in tongues.

The visual flame accompanied by speaking in tongues proved God had filled each person. The born again Christian’s body is God’s tabernacle. Notice the OT parallel below:

• The Israelites knew when God was present in the darkness of night by the pillar of flame that appeared above the Old Testament tabernacle. (Exodus 25:8, 22, 29:43,40:34-38) The flame was the undeniable evidence that God’s Holy Spirit was present.
• The image of the cloven tongue can easily point to the dual purpose for manifestation of tongues: The initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and the Spiritual gift of tongues.

SPIRITUAL GIFT OF TONGUES: (Not all operate in this gift)

Paul’s discourse about Spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12) was presented to those who had already spoken in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost. Only after receiving the Holy Ghost will there be the possibility of being used to operate in the Spiritual gifts that manifest in order to edify church members.

The Holy Spirit initiates the flow of spiritual gifts from within the believer to edify other believers and unbelievers alike. (1 Cor. 12:11) The born again Christian is a conduit between the Holy Ghost and others for the specific purpose of bringing God’s will to pass.

"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers...

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
-1 Corinthians 14: 22, 27-28


(My apology for not adding any commentary to this, but, if Scripture is clear and articulate, there's nothing I should add to it)

 

[pinebeach]

Note, in verse 16-17 he says eventhough others don't understand what is being spoken between man's renewed spirit and God's Spirit the one speaking in tongues IS thanking God... The manifestation is the means of communication between God and the individual.

I noted that many years ago. YOU note that nowhere does he say you must speak in tongues for salvation.

Now it's Paul this and Paul that. You seem to have dropped Acts on its head. So phony.

 

[Ceph]

Christ himself lays his hands on anyone who reads/hears, understands, and believes, and will keep His Gospel.
Though they don't all speak in tongues, they all recieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[Blade]

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”"

Ok this is a promise to all that believe in trust in Jesus Christ. You ask God for the holy spirit that is what you get. He can not give you anything but what He promised. What gets me is .. people believe in John 3:16-17 amen GOD said it yet Luke 11;13? Same GOD said it.. who cares what man says.. GOD said it.. I do it and I simply believe.

"“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Now.. to repent be baptized.. aka saved now then what happens? You will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Your saved.. what gift? "Have you received the holy Spirit since you believed?" Have you? A simple question. Again who cares what man says.


"I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification."

Watched when Paul and Jan on TBN were young this preacher .. home now.. got made fun of still does but talking about speaking in tongues said.. "some of you don't believe in that praise GOD you believe in Jesus Christ that is what matters". So we have this verse.. and ok some don't speak in tongues.. I wish you all did but even more that you prophesied. <---- ok how many don't believe in tongues yet.. do they even prophesies?

Haha.. I have no choice here really. Well I was 15y and they just asked if I wanted the holy Spirit.. read only scriptures didn't add anything else to that. Just read the verses..do you want the holy spirit they asked? Yes they prayed really fast said "thats it you got it". That right there.. do you believe Gods word like that? Do you have faith if you ask the Father for the holy Spirit He will give it to you? They just believed. So nothing happened no one said one word.. I got up the moment I go to sit down tongues just came out. Yes.. it us 100% like day and night. He said "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

He had already rose from the grave when He said that. I am a example of what happened over2 thousand years ago.. still happens today. But see then there was no internet no one to tell me.. No thats dead its gone. They showed me in the bible what Jesus said.. what the NT said.. and asked...do you want it?

 

[studentoftheword]

there is ----The indwelling of the Holy Spirit

And then there is-------- being filled with the Holy Spirit ----

2 different things ---2 different functions ------

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes immediately when we Believe in Jesus and receive Him in our Hearts -----when we are saved the Holy Spirit indwells us -----

The Disciples Received the Holy Spirit in the upper room when Jesus went through the locked door --after His Resurrection ----where they were to wait------Jesus Breathed on them and they all received the Holy Spirit

The Infilling of the Holy Spirit ----come to the Disciples at Pentecost ------as tongues of fire -----the infilling of the Holy Spirit is given for the purpose of empowering one to do a certain task God has commanded ---the Disciples were empowered to cast out demons ---heal ---and present the gospel in the Native language of the people they were Preaching the Gospel to --with power and might

Speaking in tongues is a gift the Holy Spirit gives to whom He wants -----the believer can have the gift of tongues without being filled with the Holy Spirit ----no where does it say the one has to speak in tongues to be saved -----that is False doctrine ==Folks ---


to be saved you need to do this ---as per scripture ---nothing about speaking in tongues here

Romans 10:9-10
​

9 if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 ;For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.


AI
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is a divine empowerment for service and the fulfillment of God's tasks.



In the Old Testament ---some people were given task to preform by God and they were temporally filled with the Holy Spirit to complete the task given by God -----

Bezalel-Filled with HS to craft the Tabernacle (Exodus 31:3).


Joseph ---was filled with the HS to interpret Dreams ---Genesis 41

Samson was filled with the HS with supernatural strength (Judges 14:6).

Elisha was filled with the HS -----to get a borrowed axe head to float to the surface of the Jordan River so it could be retrieved [2 Kings 6:5-7]

Being filled with the Holy Spirit is given to empower the person to do a specific task for God ----Folks ---the infilling of the HS is not given to every believer ----

 

[rewriter]

Tongues is a sign.

A sign of what? Tongues occur in most if not all religions.

 

[presidente]

A sign of what? Tongues occur in most if not all religions.

I am pretty sure that is false, even if you have a broad definition of 'tongues' that has little or nothing to do with what they are in scripture.