The Natural Man

[Gideon300]

The "natural man" is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul contrasts the natural man with the spiritual man. The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit. He thinks that they are foolish and he cannot understand them. Why? Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

What is the "natural man"? To discover this, we need to go back to the creation of Adam. God is Spirit and Adam was made in God's image. So it is clear that Adam was primarily a spirit being. For brevity, I won't explain again what the soul is. To summarise, man is a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

Adam was created innocent but incomplete. Adam was very good in God's sight. However, God had a plan and purpose for Adam that was higher than any other creature that God had made. For this reason, God placed two trees in Eden. Adam was forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. There was no prohibition on the tree of Life.

There is no record of God discussing the tree of life with Adam. We do know that Satan tempted Eve with the tree of knowledge. We do know the catastrophic consequences of Adam's disobedience.

Adam was created a living being. He had life in himself that was not spiritual life. He had a spirit, but his spirit was empty. God's intent was that Adam's spirit should be filled with life that was of God, not himself. Instead, Adam chose the knowledge of good and evil. Adam died spiritually as God warned him would happen.

Yet Adam was not dead in the way that most understand death. He could still think, feel, choose and move his body. Adam still had the life in his soul that was the result of God breathing into him the breath of life. It was Adam's spirit that died and became separated from God. God expelled the guilty pair from Eden and prevented access to the tree of Life. All Adam had was life in his soul. This is the "natural man".

The natural man functions according to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I've yet to meet a person who thinks that they are bad. I know someone who did drugs and drank alcohol while pregnant. The child was born with cerebral palsy. She complained that she was a good person, so why did such a bad thing happen to her? Her natural mind could not comprehend the truth that her evil ways had resulted in a disabled child.

The believer has a choice, much like Adam had a choice in Eden. When we hear or study the word of God, we can analyse it according to the logic and reason of the natural man, or we can seek to be taught by the Spirit. If we depend on logic and reason, we will not understand. That's one reason that many Christians prefer to believe worldly "science" and consign the first 11 chapters of Genesis to the realm of myth. It is also one of the main causes of much division and absurdity of 40,000 denominations.​

Paul puts it like this:

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words."

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. “For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

If you are born again, you are spiritual. You have the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth. However, it is a choice we make, intellect or spirit. If you are not born again, the things of God make no sense. So I am not at all surprised when the lost argue and resist the truth. Only as the Holy Spirit opens the heart of the unbeliever to the gospel can that person repent and receive Christ.​

 

[PaulThomson]

The "natural man" is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul contrasts the natural man with the spiritual man. The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit. He thinks that they are foolish and he cannot understand them. Why? Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

What is the "natural man"? To discover this, we need to go back to the creation of Adam. God is Spirit and Adam was made in God's image. So it is clear that Adam was primarily a spirit being. For brevity, I won't explain again what the soul is. To summarise, man is a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

Adam was created innocent but incomplete. Adam was very good in God's sight. However, God had a plan and purpose for Adam that was higher than any other creature that God had made. For this reason, God placed two trees in Eden. Adam was forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. There was no prohibition on the tree of Life.

There is no record of God discussing the tree of life with Adam. We do know that Satan tempted Eve with the tree of knowledge. We do know the catastrophic consequences of Adam's disobedience.

Adam was created a living being. He had life in himself that was not spiritual life. He had a spirit, but his spirit was empty. God's intent was that Adam's spirit should be filled with life that was of God, not himself. Instead, Adam chose the knowledge of good and evil. Adam died spiritually as God warned him would happen.

Yet Adam was not dead in the way that most understand death. He could still think, feel, choose and move his body. Adam still had the life in his soul that was the result of God breathing into him the breath of life. It was Adam's spirit that died and became separated from God. God expelled the guilty pair from Eden and prevented access to the tree of Life. All Adam had was life in his soul. This is the "natural man".

The natural man functions according to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I've yet to meet a person who thinks that they are bad. I know someone who did drugs and drank alcohol while pregnant. The child was born with cerebral palsy. She complained that she was a good person, so why did such a bad thing happen to her? Her natural mind could not comprehend the truth that her evil ways had resulted in a disabled child.

The believer has a choice, much like Adam had a choice in Eden. When we hear or study the word of God, we can analyse it according to the logic and reason of the natural man, or we can seek to be taught by the Spirit. If we depend on logic and reason, we will not understand. That's one reason that many Christians prefer to believe worldly "science" and consign the first 11 chapters of Genesis to the realm of myth. It is also one of the main causes of much division and absurdity of 40,000 denominations.​

Paul puts it like this:

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words."

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. “For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

If you are born again, you are spiritual. You have the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth. However, it is a choice we make, intellect or spirit. If you are not born again, the things of God make no sense. So I am not at all surprised when the lost argue and resist the truth. Only as the Holy Spirit opens the heart of the unbeliever to the gospel can that person repent and receive Christ.​

I would say that the natural man is the man whose flesh is ruling over his mind and spirit, and he is submitting to the guidance of instinct and tradition. The spiritual man is the man whose spirit is ruling over his mind and body and he is submitting to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GWH]

The "natural man" is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul contrasts the natural man with the spiritual man. The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit. He thinks that they are foolish and he cannot understand them. Why? Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

What is the "natural man"? To discover this, we need to go back to the creation of Adam. God is Spirit and Adam was made in God's image. So it is clear that Adam was primarily a spirit being. For brevity, I won't explain again what the soul is. To summarise, man is a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

Adam was created innocent but incomplete. Adam was very good in God's sight. However, God had a plan and purpose for Adam that was higher than any other creature that God had made. For this reason, God placed two trees in Eden. Adam was forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. There was no prohibition on the tree of Life.

There is no record of God discussing the tree of life with Adam. We do know that Satan tempted Eve with the tree of knowledge. We do know the catastrophic consequences of Adam's disobedience.

Adam was created a living being. He had life in himself that was not spiritual life. He had a spirit, but his spirit was empty. God's intent was that Adam's spirit should be filled with life that was of God, not himself. Instead, Adam chose the knowledge of good and evil. Adam died spiritually as God warned him would happen.

Yet Adam was not dead in the way that most understand death. He could still think, feel, choose and move his body. Adam still had the life in his soul that was the result of God breathing into him the breath of life. It was Adam's spirit that died and became separated from God. God expelled the guilty pair from Eden and prevented access to the tree of Life. All Adam had was life in his soul. This is the "natural man".

The natural man functions according to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I've yet to meet a person who thinks that they are bad. I know someone who did drugs and drank alcohol while pregnant. The child was born with cerebral palsy. She complained that she was a good person, so why did such a bad thing happen to her? Her natural mind could not comprehend the truth that her evil ways had resulted in a disabled child.

The believer has a choice, much like Adam had a choice in Eden. When we hear or study the word of God, we can analyse it according to the logic and reason of the natural man, or we can seek to be taught by the Spirit. If we depend on logic and reason, we will not understand. That's one reason that many Christians prefer to believe worldly "science" and consign the first 11 chapters of Genesis to the realm of myth. It is also one of the main causes of much division and absurdity of 40,000 denominations.​

Paul puts it like this:

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words."

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. “For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

If you are born again, you are spiritual. You have the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth. However, it is a choice we make, intellect or spirit. If you are not born again, the things of God make no sense. So I am not at all surprised when the lost argue and resist the truth. Only as the Holy Spirit opens the heart of the unbeliever to the gospel can that person repent and receive Christ.​

Yes, there is no record of God having any discussion with Adam and Eve, although that is what they should have requested when told the lie by the devil.

IOW, humanity fell/became sinful immediately following being created with the knowledge of good and evil,
and the rest of Scripture is the story of God working in history to carry out His plan of salvation.

 

[Gideon300]

Yes, there is no record of God having any discussion with Adam and Eve, although that is what they should have requested when told the lie by the devil.

IOW, humanity fell/became sinful immediately following being created with the knowledge of good and evil,
and the rest of Scripture is the story of God working in history to carry out His plan of salvation.

Adam and Eve were not created with the knowledge of good and Evil. You may not mean that, but that's what your reply states.

 

[Aussie52]

The "natural man" is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul contrasts the natural man with the spiritual man. The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit. He thinks that they are foolish and he cannot understand them. Why? Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

What is the "natural man"? To discover this, we need to go back to the creation of Adam. God is Spirit and Adam was made in God's image. So it is clear that Adam was primarily a spirit being. For brevity, I won't explain again what the soul is. To summarise, man is a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

Adam was created innocent but incomplete. Adam was very good in God's sight. However, God had a plan and purpose for Adam that was higher than any other creature that God had made. For this reason, God placed two trees in Eden. Adam was forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. There was no prohibition on the tree of Life.

There is no record of God discussing the tree of life with Adam. We do know that Satan tempted Eve with the tree of knowledge. We do know the catastrophic consequences of Adam's disobedience.

Adam was created a living being. He had life in himself that was not spiritual life. He had a spirit, but his spirit was empty. God's intent was that Adam's spirit should be filled with life that was of God, not himself. Instead, Adam chose the knowledge of good and evil. Adam died spiritually as God warned him would happen.

Yet Adam was not dead in the way that most understand death. He could still think, feel, choose and move his body. Adam still had the life in his soul that was the result of God breathing into him the breath of life. It was Adam's spirit that died and became separated from God. God expelled the guilty pair from Eden and prevented access to the tree of Life. All Adam had was life in his soul. This is the "natural man".

The natural man functions according to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I've yet to meet a person who thinks that they are bad. I know someone who did drugs and drank alcohol while pregnant. The child was born with cerebral palsy. She complained that she was a good person, so why did such a bad thing happen to her? Her natural mind could not comprehend the truth that her evil ways had resulted in a disabled child.

The believer has a choice, much like Adam had a choice in Eden. When we hear or study the word of God, we can analyse it according to the logic and reason of the natural man, or we can seek to be taught by the Spirit. If we depend on logic and reason, we will not understand. That's one reason that many Christians prefer to believe worldly "science" and consign the first 11 chapters of Genesis to the realm of myth. It is also one of the main causes of much division and absurdity of 40,000 denominations.​

Paul puts it like this:

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words."

"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. “For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."

If you are born again, you are spiritual. You have the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth. However, it is a choice we make, intellect or spirit. If you are not born again, the things of God make no sense. So I am not at all surprised when the lost argue and resist the truth. Only as the Holy Spirit opens the heart of the unbeliever to the gospel can that person repent and receive Christ.​

T Austin Sparkes & Watchman Nee I think?

 

[GWH]

Adam and Eve were not created with the knowledge of good and Evil. You may not mean that, but that's what your reply states.

True. Sorry. I meant that they were created with MFW/the ability to choose whether or not to believe GW or SL (Satan's lie).

 

[timf]

Adam and Even were connected to God through their spirit. This connection with God ended when they died.

In the day you eat of it you will die (dying you shall die). The natural man is one whose direction in life comes from his flesh.

Christians have the opportunity through their regenerated spirit to walk by the Holy Spirit and no longer need to be driven by their flesh.

 

[Aussie52]

Your tripartite view of man has more to do with Greek philosophy than Biblical revelation. Both Old & New Testament revelation about man is holistic, God deals with the whole man, not just a part of him.
The ideas that you are propounding were made popular in recent times by T Austin Sparks and Watchman Nee. Each of these men's ideas have been examined by men smarter than me and they have been found to be very close to Gnostic views.
If I may humbly say, you need to discover the Biblical view of man. You will find that God inhabits the whole Christan man, the flesh is not an 'it,' but human nature polluted by sin and that spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture.
Be blessed.

 

[brightfame52]

I would say that the natural man is the man whose flesh is ruling over his mind and spirit, and he is submitting to the guidance of instinct and tradition.

Thats all of us by nature coming out of the womb of our mothers and remain so until regenerated or born again by the Spirit.

 

[Gideon300]

T Austin Sparkes & Watchman Nee I think?

W. Nee for sure. I've read a lot of his books. I found them very helpful.

 

[Gideon300]

Your tripartite view of man has more to do with Greek philosophy than Biblical revelation. Both Old & New Testament revelation about man is holistic, God deals with the whole man, not just a part of him.
The ideas that you are propounding were made popular in recent times by T Austin Sparks and Watchman Nee. Each of these men's ideas have been examined by men smarter than me and they have been found to be very close to Gnostic views.
If I may humbly say, you need to discover the Biblical view of man. You will find that God inhabits the whole Christan man, the flesh is not an 'it,' but human nature polluted by sin and that spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture.
Be blessed.

If you get to read "Spiritual Man" by W. Nee, you will find that he points out the holistic nature of man. However, strictly speaking, Lord Jesus does not dwell in the soul, and for sure does not dwell in the physical body. Your assertion that spirit and soul are the same is not at all scriptural. If the soul and spirit are the same, why is it necessary to divide them? (Hebrews 4:18).

The idea that spirit and soul are the same can lead to deception. The abomination that is the so-called "Toronto Blessing" is one example. Believers who rely on emotion and logic only (the realm of the soul) are easily deceived. I discovered this when I investigated the TB for myself.

The spirit is the part of us that relates to God. God is Spirit so that is why He gave us a spirit. The soul is how we relate to others and the world around us. The body is the conveyance that enables us to carry out God's purposes.

Christians who do not see that we are fundamentally spirit beings fall into three categories. There are the intellectual believers, those whose minds are full of knowledge of the written word but know little of the Living Word (Jesus). There are those who are primarily emotional, who think that if they feel good, they are spiritual, if not, they are sinning somehow. Then you have those who are strong willed, domineering, driven and controlling. Often, they are charming, good leaders and successful. But they run churches more like a business and treat believers like employees.

God can use anyone for His purpose. He is not limited by our natural disposition. But His leading is in our spirit man, not in feeling or emotion. Those who are strong willed, driven and want to drive others are not depending on God, they rely on their own resources. Lord Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can do nothing". And no matter how good it looks outwardly, if a work is not instigated and led by Christ, God calls it nothing.

If all we have is mental knowledge, then someone can convince that we are wrong. If all we have is warm fuzzy feelings, when the feelings go so does faith. If all we have is will power and natural strength, then that will be reflected in the ministry. You read about pastors who are accused of bullying and imposing their will on others. None of that is Christlike.

True "knowing" is only in the spirit. When we know in the spirit by revelation from God, nothing can take it away from us. I know God and Jesus as real and living, not as an intellectual concept.

 

[Aaron56]

IMO, an excellent summary.

 

[Aaron56]

I was going to draw pictures (and I still might) but I wanted to see if I could explain the concept of soul and spirit without a visual guide. Along the way I will reference the scriptures but I will not cite all of them. If you know the scriptures you will understand from which ones I derive my information.

Man (Adam) and Woman ("Eve" but only after the fall) did not consider themselves naked because they identified with their Father who was Spirit. In their minds, not yet corrupted by sin, they were spirits clothed in flesh. Their flesh was sufficient and suitable for habitation within the created world. The Lord of all Creation bestowed upon them the right to subdue and rule over all creation. They were to do so within the limits set forth by God at the beginning of time and space. Before this time and space, there was only the eternal: no beginning nor end. God was and He was the whole of all.

The temptation of the Enemy was for Man and Woman to identify NOT with their Father but with their own bodies. So, he presented a three-part temptation: eating the forbidden fruit that could sustain the body, make them wise, and was ultimately pleasing to the eye: all things that enhanced their dwelling place: their flesh. John would later write that this temptation remains in the world: "For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world."

(Note: It should be understood that the whole of the world is built upon these principles that have their origin in the scheme of the enemy to kill God's beloved. The Accuser turned a phrase of God, perverted its meaning, and laid a trap for Man and Woman with the intent to kill them. We mustn't think it worthwhile to find "Biblical nuggets" in anything of the world: the Enemy is cunning and he will use half-truths and duplicitous language to "almost" seem holy.)

To continue, John's emphasis here is that the man, himself, may currently obtain fleshly satisfaction from the creation BUT that the temptation would continue to cement one's identity in the created flesh. The temptation is still available and the result of obtaining what one wants by their own strength is still the same: death.

Man and woman were supposed to increase their knowledge and wisdom by two (ultimately one) means: 1) by the fruit of the tree of life, which God provided and 2) by the words that proceed from the mouth of their Father. God is the source of both. Life was to be exclusively supplied by the Spirit of God: God's Spirit to man's spirit. Had they stuck to this principle, Man and Woman would have become like their Father completely.

The soul of man, man's being, is derived from their experience in life. Now, the Spirit of God, breathed into man, made man a living being, but man's soul is built upon the experiences of the man. The main issue of man's nature is this: "What is the source of his life?" Both the Spiritual man and the Natural man have souls because they both have experiences within creation. The Spiritual man, however, lives according to the direction of the Spirit whereas the Natural man lives according to the desires of his flesh (his senses). The natural man determines what to do based upon what his flesh tells him (his "stomach") but the Spiritual man is "led by the Spirit of God".

In scripture, the flesh of man is juxtaposed to the spirit of man. This is an issue of supremacy: one my only live out of the soul in formed by the flesh or out of the spirit informed by God. This take us back to the beginning to answer the question "Will man live in likeness and kind to his Father or will he live only like a created being?" The whole of creation is moving toward the reality that existed from the foundation of the world: when God was All in all. The salvation and reconciliation of Christ, man to God his Father, moves the whole of creation to this point of purity: when God simply was (of "Is"). In this reality, man is like God with no schism because he identifies with the eternal Spirit within him and not his created housing.

Blessings

 

[Aussie52]

If you get to read "Spiritual Man" by W. Nee, you will find that he points out the holistic nature of man. However, strictly speaking, Lord Jesus does not dwell in the soul, and for sure does not dwell in the physical body. Your assertion that spirit and soul are the same is not at all scriptural. If the soul and spirit are the same, why is it necessary to divide them? (Hebrews 4:18).

The idea that spirit and soul are the same can lead to deception. The abomination that is the so-called "Toronto Blessing" is one example. Believers who rely on emotion and logic only (the realm of the soul) are easily deceived. I discovered this when I investigated the TB for myself.

The spirit is the part of us that relates to God. God is Spirit so that is why He gave us a spirit. The soul is how we relate to others and the world around us. The body is the conveyance that enables us to carry out God's purposes.

Christians who do not see that we are fundamentally spirit beings fall into three categories. There are the intellectual believers, those whose minds are full of knowledge of the written word but know little of the Living Word (Jesus). There are those who are primarily emotional, who think that if they feel good, they are spiritual, if not, they are sinning somehow. Then you have those who are strong willed, domineering, driven and controlling. Often, they are charming, good leaders and successful. But they run churches more like a business and treat believers like employees.

God can use anyone for His purpose. He is not limited by our natural disposition. But His leading is in our spirit man, not in feeling or emotion. Those who are strong willed, driven and want to drive others are not depending on God, they rely on their own resources. Lord Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can do nothing". And no matter how good it looks outwardly, if a work is not instigated and led by Christ, God calls it nothing.

If all we have is mental knowledge, then someone can convince that we are wrong. If all we have is warm fuzzy feelings, when the feelings go so does faith. If all we have is will power and natural strength, then that will be reflected in the ministry. You read about pastors who are accused of bullying and imposing their will on others. None of that is Christlike.

True "knowing" is only in the spirit. When we know in the spirit by revelation from God, nothing can take it away from us. I know God and Jesus as real and living, not as an intellectual concept.

I have read Watchman Nee's, "Spiritual Man' and must disagree with you that he viewed man in a holistic way.
His justification that spirit and soul are different was on questionable grounds. For example, he quotes Mary, ' My soul magnifies, my Lord and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour'. Nee points to this verse and states that spirit and soul are different. However, Mary uses 'poetic parallelism', an Old Testament, especially the Psalms device, where the writer makes a statement, then repeats it again in a slightly different way but both meaning the same thing.
As for 'dividing soul from spirit', the spirit is the non-material part of man that relates to God, while the soul is the non-material part of man that relates to the world. Not two different things, but two aspects of the same entity.
Blessings.

 

[Gideon300]

I have read Watchman Nee's, "Spiritual Man' and must disagree with you that he viewed man in a holistic way.
His justification that spirit and soul are different was on questionable grounds. For example, he quotes Mary, ' My soul magnifies, my Lord and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour'. Nee points to this verse and states that spirit and soul are different. However, Mary uses 'poetic parallelism', an Old Testament, especially the Psalms device, where the writer makes a statement, then repeats it again in a slightly different way but both meaning the same thing.
As for 'dividing soul from spirit', the spirit is the non-material part of man that relates to God, while the soul is the non-material part of man that relates to the world. Not two different things, but two aspects of the same entity.
Blessings.

Nee's preface to Spiritual Man (if I remember correctly) states that man is holistic. For example, my car is made up of many parts and all are necessary to get me where I want to go. But if something goes wrong, I need to fix that individual problem. Spirit and soul are not the same. If they were, then there would be no need to divide them.

Man's spirit is what died in Eden. Death is not the end of existence, it means separation from God. As I've said, and you reject, man is fundamentally a spirit being because we are made in God's image. It is the spirit of man that is made alive when we are born again. If my car engine fails, I don't replace the tyres. So God makes our spirit man alive because that is the root problem.

Yes, both spirit and soul are non material. But they are not the same substance, not two sides of the same coin.

 

[Aussie52]

Nee's preface to Spiritual Man (if I remember correctly) states that man is holistic. For example, my car is made up of many parts and all are necessary to get me where I want to go. But if something goes wrong, I need to fix that individual problem. Spirit and soul are not the same. If they were, then there would be no need to divide them.

Man's spirit is what died in Eden. Death is not the end of existence, it means separation from God. As I've said, and you reject, man is fundamentally a spirit being because we are made in God's image. It is the spirit of man that is made alive when we are born again. If my car engine fails, I don't replace the tyres. So God makes our spirit man alive because that is the root problem.

Yes, both spirit and soul are non material. But they are not the same substance, not two sides of the same coin.

If that's what you believe, so be it. It's not a salvation issue.
Peace.

 

[Gideon300]

If that's what you believe, so be it. It's not a salvation issue.
Peace.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

 

[PaulThomson]

As for 'dividing soul from spirit', the spirit is the non-material part of man that relates to God, while the soul is the non-material part of man that relates to the world. Not two different things, but two aspects of the same entity.

You have just defined the soul and spirit as two different parts of the invisible self, but are also claiming they are the same as each other. That is logically contradictory. That’s like saying the head and the body are both parts of the physical self, therefore the head is just another name for the body.

 

[Aussie52]

You have just defined the soul and spirit as two different parts of the invisible self, but are also claiming they are the same as each other. That is logically contradictory. That’s like saying the head and the body are both parts of the physical self, therefore the head is just another name for the body.

An egg has a yoke and the white. One egg, not two.

 

[PaulThomson]

An egg has a yoke and the white. One egg, not two.

But the white is not the same as the yoke, is it? A man is body and soul. Because they are both part of a man, does that make them both the same thing?