Revolution in Iran

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They are trying to muddy the waters. As I've explained before, Daniel mentions abominations that make desolate 3 separate times in 3 different chapters. Whoever wrote the gospel account said let the reader understand which one Daniel was talking about. It most definitley wasn't the one mentioned in Daniel 9, because it mentions an overspreading of abominations, not THE abomination. In fact, only one instance uses the definite article THE.
Time for your migraine therapy session. Enjoy!

Dan 12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.

Mar 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

*************************************************************

The wording in Book of Daniel 12:11 strongly overlaps conceptually with the language Jesus uses in Gospel of Matthew 24:15 and Gospel of Mark 13:14, the exact Hebrew and Greek verbs are worth examining carefully.


Daniel 12:11 — Hebrew wording​


The key clause is:


וְלָתֵת שִׁקּוּץ שֹׁמֵם
wĕ-lātēt šiqqûṣ šōmēm

Literally:


“and to place/give the abomination causing desolation”

The important verb is:


לָתֵת (lātēt)​


Root: נתן (natan)


Usually means:


  • to give
  • to place
  • to put
  • to set

So “set up” in many English translations is interpretive shorthand for:


  • “put in place”
  • “install”
  • “cause to be placed”

The Hebrew does not specifically mean:


  • “to stand upright”
  • “to erect a statue” by itself

But it absolutely implies the placement or installation of something in a designated location.


This becomes clearer when linked with Daniel 11:31:


“they shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place (nātĕnû) the abomination that makes desolate.”

Same root idea:


  • removal of sacrifice
  • replacement by an abominable thing/object/system



Jesus’ wording in Matthew and Mark​


In Matthew 24:15:


Greek:


ἑστὸς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ
hestos en topō hagiō

Meaning:


“standing in the holy place”

The verb comes from:


ἵστημι (histēmi)​


= to stand, establish, set in place


This is more visual and locational than Daniel’s Hebrew.


Mark 13:14 says:


ἑστηκότα ὅπου οὐ δεῖ
“standing where it ought not”

Again:


  • something positioned
  • occupying forbidden sacred space



Are they referring to the same event?​


Yes, almost certainly.


Jesus explicitly says:


“spoken of by Daniel the prophet”

So He is intentionally interpreting Daniel for His hearers.


What Jesus adds is:


  • location specificity (“holy place”)
  • visibility (“when you see”)
  • urgency (“flee”)

Daniel emphasizes:


  • cessation of sacrifice
  • installation/placement of the abomination

Jesus emphasizes:


  • its visible presence in sacred territory

The two descriptions complement each other.




Does this imply an idol?​


Very possibly — and historically that has been the dominant interpretation.


The noun:


שִׁקּוּץ (šiqqûṣ)​


means:


  • abomination
  • detestable thing
  • especially idolatrous object/idol

In the Hebrew Bible, this term is frequently tied to idols and pagan worship.


Example:


  • idols of foreign gods
  • detestable cultic objects

So the phrase naturally suggests:


  • an idolatrous presence
  • pagan cult object
  • profaning installation



Antiochus IV background​


Historically, many scholars connect the near-term fulfillment to Antiochus IV Epiphanes placing pagan worship in the Second Temple around 167 BC.


Ancient sources describe:


  • pagan altar installation
  • Zeus imagery/worship
  • cessation of Jewish sacrifices

That historical event strongly shapes the language.


However, Jesus speaks of the abomination as future relative to His own day, which is why many interpreters conclude:


  • Antiochus was a prototype/foreshadowing
  • a later fulfillment still awaited



Important nuance: “set up” vs “standing”​


The Hebrew in Daniel:


  • emphasizes installation/placement

The Greek in Matthew/Mark:


  • emphasizes presence/occupation

Together they convey:


something abominable being installed and then occupying sacred space illegitimately.

That absolutely fits the idea of:


  • an idol
  • blasphemous cult object
  • profaning presence
  • possibly even a person claiming divine honors
 
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They are trying to muddy the waters. As I've explained before, Daniel mentions abominations that make desolate 3 separate times in 3 different chapters. Whoever wrote the gospel account said let the reader understand which one Daniel was talking about. It most definitley wasn't the one mentioned in Daniel 9, because it mentions an overspreading of abominations, not THE abomination. In fact, only one instance uses the definite article THE.
Everyone muddies the waters. The abomination of desolation isn't specified; only events surrounding it.
 
Abomination(s) that makes desolate is mentioned in chapters 9, 11 and 12. Only in chapter 12 is it called THE abomination
It's Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 12:11 that is the abomination of desolation, it's one and the same, it's also the idol in Revelation 13. What you're refering in Daniel 9 doesn't mention the abomination of desolation itself, but the it mentions in general abominations and desolations that will go forth throughout the world unti lthe end of the war, and the prince that will come. You have conflated Jesus, the Messiah, with the abomination of desolation and the crucifixion with an abomination, but that's cursed still too, the crucifixion of Jesus is the only salvation from sins, praise Jesus. Just abolish the thought, even you don't know the meaning of the weeks don't strain force it, just understand the narrative of the text itself, this is like easy stuff even.
 
Everyone muddies the waters. The abomination of desolation isn't specified; only events surrounding it.
It is specificied in the verses i already posted in Daniel 11 and 12 and it also is affirmatively linked to Revelation 13..
 
Also okay, here, simpyl recant, it's ot like you're thinking like oh you're doing anythign forme, recant for yourself of saying Jesus crucifixion is abomination of desolation. I found the verse perfect to prvove tis cannot be the case because Jesus forewarns abotu the abomination of desolation, wich is the same from Daniel and Revelation.


Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 
So what specifically is it and who does it?
It's the idol of the Beast which is the kingdom of course which Satan and the Man of Sin/Antichrist create. Revelation 13 and Daniel 11 give the more indepth about it, as well as some detail by Jesus himself in Matthew and the Gospels of course.
 
I have never seen the likes. And they believe they are hiding their hate by saying they don't hate Jews, just Zionists, so you're saying you like a Jew as long as they don't want a homeland or a right to defend themselves. Rights that you claim are God given to you but the dirty Zionist doesn't deserve. They bring up the same arguments again and again, you can pick them out within minutes. They'll either go for the "the Jews of today aren't the real Jews" too bad Hitler didn't know that or the USS Liberty. Then when you call them out as Antisemitic they throw a tantrum.
Right. Lets drive out the jews from Israel, but they arent real jews, but they run the world while almost all of the UN votes against them. Lets be contrarians by supporting the majority. Don't make any sense!

How can anyone be anti-zionist in the nationalist group? Homeland for all (except the jews)
 
Also okay, here, simpyl recant, it's ot like you're thinking like oh you're doing anythign forme, recant for yourself of saying Jesus crucifixion is abomination of desolation. I found the verse perfect to prvove tis cannot be the case because Jesus forewarns abotu the abomination of desolation, wich is the same from Daniel and Revelation.


Matthew 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Also sorry it automatically emojis that in a kinda ironic way at the end of Mt24;15 that i can't fix, not intending to be a smartass.
 
Right. Lets drive out the jews from Israel, but they arent real jews, but they run the world while almost all of the UN votes against them. Lets be contrarians by supporting the majority. Don't make any sense!

How can anyone be anti-zionist in the nationalist group? Homeland for all (except the jews)
They need to bring back that award emoji, my boy hitting grandslams, God bless you, praise Jesus.
 
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It's just really strange. They act like they don't believe God is fulfilling His promises to the Jews when all that has been fulfilled so far is staring them in the face. Some of the elephants in the room: Israel becoming a nation again in one day, and Jerusalem reunified and in their control. I really don't get it.

In addition, the prophecies in the Bible are coming to pass. The Bible says the whole world is going to turn against Israel. The October 7 war showed that, when most of the nations officially turned on Israel and recognized the Palestinians. These haters don't acknowledge that the Bible has predicted this and it is coming to pass.

I wonder how they'll handle when the third temple is built. That comes next when the antichrist enters into agreement with many - probably over the two-state solution that God hates.


🕊️
This is why im NEVER gonna side against Jerusalem, thats a bet you dont wanna make
 
It's the idol of the Beast which is the kingdom of course which Satan and the Man of Sin/Antichrist create. Revelation 13 and Daniel 11 give the more indepth about it, as well as some detail by Jesus himself in Matthew and the Gospels of course.
Daniel has a very specific idol mentioned. People were killed for not bowing to it. Something like that?
 
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Both. Zechariah 14 clearly is talking about earthly Jerusalem,since the heavenly one cannot be attacked

Verses 1-3 occured either under the Romans or Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Verses 4-5 already occurred and had nothing to do with some attack (see link below), and beginning with verse 12 is it talking about Sodom and Egypt or the lord and his saints who have returned to earthly Jerusalem? I'm certain of the latter.

 
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Daniel has a very specific idol mentioned. People were killed for not bowing to it. Something like that?
Some will be killed for not taking the mark, pop culture exaggerates some of it, but the premise I assume is verse 33. Here judge for yourself.

Daniel 11:32-35
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
 
Some will be killed for not taking the mark, pop culture exaggerates some of it, but the premise I assume is verse 33. Here judge for yourself.

Daniel 11:32-35
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
What covenant?
 
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What covenant?
The holy covenant, mentioned in the verses prior (the verses about him making the abomination of desolation, whole chapter is good as is whole Bible, just trying to not scripture spam too much, verses 30 and 31 though.)
 
The holy covenant, mentioned in the verses prior (the verses about him making the abomination of desolation, whole chapter is good as is whole Bible, just trying to not scripture spam too much, verses 30 and 31 though.)
What is the substance of the covenant and who are the participants?
 
Daniel has a very specific idol mentioned. People were killed for not bowing to it. Something like that?
That is the correct typological application to make no doubt about it.

Furthermore, Goliath (Gol of Gath) is one of the most prescient types of the "anti-christ", the satan-man (as opposed to the God-man Jesus Christ) in all of Scripture.

Goliath was a nephilim, a literal demon-man hybrid, a powerful "unkillable" warlord who blasphemed the God of Israel in direct brazen challenge.

You make the connection.

If you know your Bible, the identity and attributes of the man of sin, the son of perdition, are not at all obscure, inscrutable or nondescript