Was Mary Sinless?

[Lovette]

Since you and Genez seem to be walking in lock-step he opines that man doesn't have a spirit until being born again. One of the definitions of "born" in John 3:6 ghen-nah-o is REgenerate Greek 1080 Strong's.

Every human being is born with a "human spirit", but there're plenty other spirits, including evil spirits and the Holy Spirit. Even each era (of one or several decades) has a unique spirit, i.e. "zeitgeist", spirit of the time.

 

[bytheblood]

"Bishops, Elders and Pastors" of WHICH churches? How could there be these "Bishops, Elders and Pastors" of said churches when you don't even know what are these "said churches"? What and where is the church of Ephesus today? Of Smyrna? Pergamus?

I said they "could be man" in a sarcastic sense, limited to the "historical interpretation" of the seven churches, that ONLY IF they are those particular seven assemblies in first century Asia minor, nothing more; however, if they are also seven archetypes of churches, not just singular, particular historical churches, which you seem to agree, then how can you narrow down "angel" to one singular, particular leader for a whole archetype of churches? How could "Bishops, Elders and Pastors" of those original seven churches still be around when those seven churches no longer exist? It's just common sense that they must be angelic beings that last forever, and these angelic beings are identified with their characterization - loveless, persecuted, compromised, corrupt, (spiritually) dormant, faithful, lukewarm.

Lovette, I've said over and over that those particular churches aren't in existence today and the human angels (messengers). I said in an earlier post that spiritual angels get their orders straight from God, not from letters. Why would God give John these revelations of Jesus Christ to write out for angels to deliver to human congregants? That makes no sense and is unprecedented. Speaking of OT Prophets," Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; WHICH THINGS THE ANGELS DESIRE TO LOOK INTO." 1 Peter 1:12. The angels desire to look into the things of the church, but you think that the angels are giving instructions to it. SMH.

 

[anjelica]

The sin nature is passed from the father, not the mother. This is why Jesus was uniquely the "seed of a woman." Having no earthly father, He inherited no sin nature. It is also a biological miracle that He was male, since we know today that the Y chromosome is passed directly from father to son. Every other man on earth shares Adam’s Y chromosome, but Jesus was the only one to ever bypass that lineage.

That's actually a really fun fact. That Jesus, being the second Adam, did not share in Adam's "sin" lineage.

 

[bytheblood]

Every human being is born with a "human spirit", but there're plenty other spirits, including evil spirits and the Holy Spirit. Even each era (of one or several decades) has a unique spirit, i.e. "zeitgeist", spirit of the time.

I posted that to Sawdust, but it's nice to see that we can agree that " every human being is born with a human spirit." To my surprise, not all who proclaim to be Christians do. Now don't switch up on me Lovette )

BTW, in case you read these seven letters as generic advise like the Pauline epistles, they are NOT. Notice that Jesus started all seven with "I know your works", he was judging these churches and reviewing their job performance, not just responding to arising issues and offering advise. So, if these letters are applicable to future churches, whatever they are, then Jesus was judging them at the end of the church age, not the beginning, since he was reviewing the COMPLETED works of these churches, not offering advise on how they should do their work in the future.

Knowing that humans have not basically changed, you can say that Jesus was judging the churches from the beginning. For if they do the same things that we read in the book of Revelation they will get the same judgement, God is no respecter of persons, which make up the church. They were written for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS", as ALL scripture is.

 

[Genez]

Since you and Genez seem to be walking in lock-step he opines that man doesn't have a spirit until being born again. One of the definitions of "born" in John 3:6 ghen-nah-o is REgenerate Greek 1080 Strong's.

You keep failing to make sense, sir.

 

[Lovette]

Lovette, I've said over and over that those particular churches aren't in existence today and the human angels (messengers). I said in an earlier post that spiritual angels get their orders straight from God, not from letters. Why would God give John these revelations of Jesus Christ to write out for angels to deliver to human congregants? That makes no sense and is unprecedented. Speaking of OT Prophets," Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; WHICH THINGS THE ANGELS DESIRE TO LOOK INTO." 1 Peter 1:12. The angels desire to look into the things of the church, but you think that the angels are giving instructions to it. SMH.

And I've asked you over and over again that since those particular churches aren't in existence today, what churches ARE in existence today? And how are they associated with those seven historical churches? What and where is modern equivalent "said churches" of Ephesus today? Of Smyrna? Pergamus? What really makes no sense is spiritualizing these angels into "human leaders of churches", while you also acknowledge that those particular churches are long gone, and you have no idea what the modern equivalent of those seven churches are and who exactly are their leaders. Is pope Leo one of those leaders? Is the recently appointed female archbishop of Cantebury one of them? Which of the seven letters is for them?

 

[sawdust]

It is not hard for me to believe that the spirit and soul can be separated, the Word says so, " For the Word of God is quick(living), and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the DIVIDING ASUNDER OF THE SOUL AND SPIRIT...." Heb.4:12. The Word of God is the only thing that separates the spirit and soul, so when God breathed the "breath of life(or lives)" into Adam it was with soul and spirit included. " Then shall the dust (body) RETURN to the earth as it was: and the SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT." Ecc. 12:7. If ALL bodies return to the dust, than ALL spirits return to God, not just those born again. What's hanging in the balance is the final destination of the soul. Spiritually dead is not the absence of the spirit, it is the spirit that is quickened (enlivened), which beforehand was " dead in trespasses and sins", to the spiritual things of God. I liken it to a battery that we consider "dead", unable to operate, but if it is recharged or regenerated, then, like our spirits, which can operate spiritually after the Word, with our believing and receiving it.

You are accusing the Spirit of giving birth to a dead spirit. Yes the spirit that God gave returns but you are assuming that God is giving a spirit to everyone and one that doesn't even work to boot! That's insane in my book.

 

[sawdust]

Since you and Genez seem to be walking in lock-step he opines that man doesn't have a spirit until being born again. One of the definitions of "born" in John 3:6 ghen-nah-o is REgenerate Greek 1080 Strong's.

regenerate​

/rĭ-jĕn′ə-rāt″/​

intransitive verb​

1. (Biology) To replace (a lost or damaged organ or part) by the formation of new tissue.
2. To form, construct, or create anew.
   Any part of the hologram can be used to regenerate the whole image.
3. To give new life or energyto; revitalize.
   a new book to regenerate the flagging interest of his readers.

Regenerate doesn't always mean the narrow meaning you are trying to apply.

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you want to argue that regeneration is taking a pre-existing part and making it alive, then try applying that to the flesh part of the verse. As we say in our country, you have two chances, none and Buckley's, which is no chance at all.

 

[Lovette]

Knowing that humans have not basically changed, you can say that Jesus was judging the churches from the beginning. For if they do the same things that we read in the book of Revelation they will get the same judgement, God is no respecter of persons, which make up the church. They were written for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS", as ALL scripture is.

The fates for the seven churches/assemblies are fixed, any meaningful difference is made on individual level - "he who has an ear, let him hear!"

 

[Genez]

I posted that to Sawdust, but it's nice to see that we can agree that " every human being is born with a human spirit." To my surprise, not all who proclaim to be Christians do. Now don't switch up on me Lovette )

Gaslighting others is not one of the spiritual gifts.


.....

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Yes, " But he whose descent is not counted from them (humans) received tithes of Abraham..." Heb. 7:6 Hint: Key word, DESCENT. His genealogy is from above. BTW, when Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham there were no priestly rights in Genesis, it had not been set up yet.

Them= sons of Levi. The author isn’t using them as all humans. Did all the “descendants” of Levi get their descent from above? No. Descent doesn’t mean divine.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I didn’t say he was God - and there is no evidence that they left his 'parents out of the record' - it clearly says no genealogy or beginning or end. Heb 7:6 doesnt say he has a genealogy

No genealogy means his ancestry can’t be traced back which literally means it’s not written or there is no record. It doesn’t mean he has no parents.

 

[bytheblood]

You keep failing to make sense, sir.

regenerate​

/rĭ-jĕn′ə-rāt″/​

intransitive verb​

1. (Biology) To replace (a lost or damaged organ or part) by the formation of new tissue.
2. To form, construct, or create anew.
   Any part of the hologram can be used to regenerate the whole image.
3. To give new life or energyto; revitalize.
   a new book to regenerate the flagging interest of his readers.

Regenerate doesn't always mean the narrow meaning you are trying to apply.

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you want to argue that regeneration is taking a pre-existing part and making it alive, then try applying that to the flesh part of the verse. As we say in our country, you have two chances, none and Buckley's, which is no chance at all.

If I were foolish enough to try to apply it to the flesh I would be trying to say just what Nicodemus asked to Jesus. I notice you didn't highlight RE-VITALIZE. Regenerate as an adjective can be used to mean (spiritually) RE-stored, (spiritually) RE-newed, (spiritually) RE-born ( born again ), or morally RE- formed.

 

[bytheblood]

And I've asked you over and over again that since those particular churches aren't in existence today, what churches ARE in existence today? And how are they associated with those seven historical churches? What and where is modern equivalent "said churches" of Ephesus today? Of Smyrna? Pergamus? What really makes no sense is spiritualizing these angels into "human leaders of churches", while you also acknowledge that those particular churches are long gone, and you have no idea what the modern equivalent of those seven churches are and who exactly are their leaders. Is pope Leo one of those leaders? Is the recently appointed female archbishop of Cantebury one of them? Which of the seven letters is for them?

Who identified the issues in those historical churches? He is the same One through which judgement will come to the church in the latter days. " For the time is come that judgment begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at US, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17. You're asking me questions that only God can answer. Again, the Bible is given for, among other things, instruction in righteousness, instructions which include what TO do and also what NOT to do. We would be wise to avoid those things in the ancient churches that God was not pleased with. The churches in those days were mainly identified by their location, churches today by their affiliation.

 

[bytheblood]

You are accusing the Spirit of giving birth to a dead spirit. Yes the spirit that God gave returns but you are assuming that God is giving a spirit to everyone and one that doesn't even work to boot! That's insane in my book.

"You are accusing the Spirit of giving birth to a dead spirit", no, I'm saying that the Holy Spirit quickens( enlivens, regenerates) the spirit already in us when we received Christ, but which was deadened ( to Godly spiritual things) because of being born with a sin nature. All people living HAVE to have a spirit because" the body without the spirit is dead". What don't you understand about that?

 

[bytheblood]

The fates for the seven churches/assemblies are fixed, any meaningful difference is made on individual level - "he who has an ear, let him hear!"

You must remember that Jesus wasn't painting with a broad brush. He said things about some individuals within those churches that didn't apply to all the rest.

 

[bytheblood]

Gaslighting others is not one of the spiritual gifts.


.....

If you consider what I said to Lovette gaslighting you that was not my intent. When I posted " to my surprise " I had never heard another Christian say that before, and I've been around for awhile. Sorry to question your faith.

Them= sons of Levi. The author isn’t using them as all humans. Did all the “descendants” of Levi get their descent from above? No. Descent doesn’t mean divine.

 

[Lovette]

Who identified the issues in those historical churches? He is the same One through which judgement will come to the church in the latter days. " For the time is come that judgment begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at US, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17. You're asking me questions that only God can answer. Again, the Bible is given for, among other things, instruction in righteousness, instructions which include what TO do and also what NOT to do. We would be wise to avoid those things in the ancient churches that God was not pleased with. The churches in those days were mainly identified by their location, churches today by their affiliation.

I've clearly showed you that these seven letters are NOT for instruction, they're judgements and warnings. Also, in a book of prophecies, these seven letters hold prophetic value, I personally believe they're both seven types of churches and seven epoches in the church history, each angel a guardian angel that oversees each church. Yes, I asked questions only God can answer, and He did answer.

 

[bytheblood]

If you consider what I said to Lovette gaslighting you that was not my intent. When I posted " to my surprise " I had never heard another Christian say that before, and I've been around for awhile. Sorry to question your faith.

Them= sons of Levi. The author isn’t using them as all humans. Did all the “descendants” of Levi get their descent from above? No. Descent doesn’t mean divine.

regenerate​

/rĭ-jĕn′ə-rāt″/​

intransitive verb​

1. (Biology) To replace (a lost or damaged organ or part) by the formation of new tissue.
2. To form, construct, or create anew.
   Any part of the hologram can be used to regenerate the whole image.
3. To give new life or energyto; revitalize.
   a new book to regenerate the flagging interest of his readers.

Regenerate doesn't always mean the narrow meaning you are trying to apply.

John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you want to argue that regeneration is taking a pre-existing part and making it alive, then try applying that to the flesh part of the verse. As we say in our country, you have two chances, none and Buckley's, which is no chance at all.

Regenerate is also used as an adjective.

 

[bytheblood]

I've clearly showed you that these seven letters are NOT for instruction, they're judgements and warnings. Also, in a book of prophecies, these seven letters hold prophetic value, I personally believe they're both seven types of churches and seven epoches in the church history, each angel a guardian angel that oversees each church. Yes, I asked questions only God can answer, and He did answer.

What is a warning but an instruction. When God says not to do something or this will happen that is a warning AND an instruction. It's up to the individual to heed the warning, because he's been instructed to. Did you get the memo? BTW, isn't ALL scripture given for instruction in righteousness? Those instructions tell us what to do AND what not to do.