Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[GWH]

Hebrews 6:4-6 is stating being born from above is once and one cannot be born again, again ..unlike the animal sacrifices which needed to be repeated.

Therefore the author is telling the audience to stop trying to repeat what is a one time event, go onto maturity your justification is secure.

No, the author is telling readers not to commit apostasy, which warning he repeats in Heb. 10:28-39 for those who don't get it the first time in Heb. 6:4-6.

 

[GWH]

This low opinion of God’s love and mercy is the reason sommany people are fixated on whether salvation can be lost. If one believes there is a line one can cross after which there is no way back into communion with God, one will become obsessed with proving that one can or cannot lose one's salvation. The myth of an unforgivable sin is the root of this centuries old debate.

See post #121.
I was raised to believe OSAS but learned that part of TULIP was wrong by learning GW in passages such as:


MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[rewriter]

Right I’m somehow “ interpreting “ this

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this …. It really needs “interpreting “
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We aren’t supposed to interpret but rather hear and believe and let the faith it creates guide us . Things like I just quoted should bring a sober ness to us
That’s the reason Paul always preached it it should bring clarity but we often simply reject the idea and explain why it’s not true but Paul always wrote this same concept in his epistles it’s meant for repentance

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. ( it’s hard to just reject what he said there and “ interpret “ it to mean another thing because he said it so clearly and plainly ) Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It requires a person to actually believe what’s being said to the church by the apostle however . Paul’s point isn’t “ you must be perfect now if you make a mistake your dead “ Paul’s point is meant to bring minds here

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Repentance is in the doctrine regardless of it’s Jesus or Paul or Peter and they make it really plain so no one needs special revelation to grasp or interpret it .

But it’s okay if you don’t agree I’m used to that worth the ultra grace instant salvation that has none of the requirements which god stated when he spoke salvation forth

As I said before, I can take every verse you are citing in support of your argument and use them to disprove your argument. All I have to do is to challenge your undeclared but obvious underlying assumptions. The biggest difference is I can cite both scripture and other objective evidence in support of my assumptions. As for claiming revelation from the HS, only the HS knows with absolute certainty which of us has received the revelation and which has been deceived.

 

[biblestudent78]

This low opinion of God’s love and mercy is the reason sommany people are fixated on whether salvation can be lost. If one believes there is a line one can cross after which there is no way back into communion with God, one will become obsessed with proving that one can or cannot lose one's salvation. The myth of an unforgivable sin is the root of this centuries old debate.

"myth" might be an overstatement from one convinced of the opposite. Perspectives divide between those who believe salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin or apostasy (falling away) and those who believe in eternal security, arguing that true believers are permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin seems to be claiming Christ is of satan.

As for once saved alway saved or the possibility of losing salvation tend to breakdown on these passages.

Warning Passages: Passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 are frequently cited, suggesting that those who have been enlightened can "fall away" and make it impossible to be renewed. Falling from Grace: Galatians 5:1-5 is often interpreted as believers falling from grace. Unfruitful Branches: John 15:1-6 describes branches (believers) that do not bear fruit being cut off and burned. Willful Sin: Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains. Specific Sins: Verses in Revelation (e.g., 3:1-5) are interpreted to mean that names can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life.

Supporting Passages: Arguments Against Losing Salvation (Eternal Security): Irrevocable Gift: Proponents argue salvation is a gift from God, and "God's gifts and callings are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). Sealed by the Spirit: Ephesians 1:13-14 states believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of their inheritance. Those Who Fall Away Were Never Truly Saved: Many interpret passages like 1 John 2:19 ("they went out from us, but they were not of us") to mean that those who abandon the faith never truly possessed it to begin with. God's Power to Keep: John 10:28-29 emphasizes that no one can snatch a believer out of Jesus' or the Father's hand.

Strangely, both sides agree on one thing. If you swear you have been saved but live in opposition or indifference to your "salvation" you are damned...just using different logic. An irrevocable gift will not be withdrawn by the giver, but it can be accepted then rejected. In either case God's gift is permanent whereas our acceptance is not.

 

[rewriter]

The woman who had the issue of blood for 12 years was saved by being healed. How does that fit into your equivocal definition of salvation?

Do you know your 1st century history well enough to make a guess as to what this woman's name was? It is quite possible that her name is known, if being actively concealed, just as there are a lot of hints as to who Theophilus was.

 

[biblestudent78]

Those of Israel and the kingdom gospel were required to endure to the end. Those saved by the grace gospel have salvation that is immediate and eternal. Those who are saved by the grace gospel are expected to grow into Christ-likeness by transitioning from the flesh to walking by the Spirit. Sadly, most Christians do not know this much less how to do it. Thus most Christians remain immature and indistinguishable from the unsaved.

I believe your dispensationalism is misguided. The "kingdom" of which we speak was ushered in on the first Pentecost after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus approx 50 days (Matt, Mark, Luke) or 51 days (John). Jesus teaching applied to both those alive at the time and for all future generations. In my opinion there is no "Kingdom Gospel" and then a second Gospel.

 

[biblestudent78]

Question is, if it isn't instant and permanent, then what kind of salvation is it?

If it is eternal salvation, it has to be instant and permanent, because we are flawed beings, who get eternally saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

If it were a long process of development, that would not be a free gift of eternal life.

If salvation wasn't permanent, and it's not meant to be thru works to get it.. how do you get it back? Works?

Comes down to the flawed nature of human beings and the grace of God.

These are fundamental questions since the mid 16th century. Here we experience "salvation" as a mental affirmation for which we have deep motivation...staying out of hell, believe or burn. In this model any human effort is "anti-christian" as it subverts the mind the the body. God is only interested in what you think and is repulsed by any effort you make. The mind is equivalent to the soul in this model. The body is just the cargo container.

That's why the originators of this theology hated the books of James and Hebrews ( Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29) and would gladly have cut out the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew if they could get away with it. Jesus says all will suffer persecutions and problems in life, but those who endure to the end will be saved. So let's just say His definition of instantaneous might be life long. Paul in Galatians 5 says "What matters is faith expressing itself through love." If your love life is instantaneous then you are truly blessed for the majority it is a life-long endeavor.

The writer of Revelation seemed to think that salvation is for those who persevere. "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11I am coming soon.d Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

"I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! 16So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!" "To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Seems like the writer of Revelation considered "instantaneous salvation" was only available to those who overcome till death.

Paul seems to believe that your "faith" is just one of three requirements and not even the most important. He sees that Christians must "endure all things," hardly instantaneous.

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body,a but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. 6Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. 7It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. 12Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.

Thus, "instantaneous salvation" is as logical as instantaneous Love.

 

[biblestudent78]

You come under discipline. Matthew 25 deals with the end of the age, not our ongoing sanctification.

Heb.12:6-8
For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”

7If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

Excuse me, but Matthew 25 is about the criteria God will use to send you to hell. So let's just agree that it is probably relevant for those current alive.

 

[biblestudent78]

Have you ever heard the word "context"?

Context refers to the circumstances, background, or setting surrounding an event, statement,
or idea that helps explain its full meaning. It acts as the framework—including time, place, and
culture—needed to interpret information accurately and understand its significance, often
determining why something happened or what it truly means.

Matthew 25 does not contradict salvation by grace; rather, it describes works as the natural, inevitable
evidence of true faith and a transformed life. While grace is the root of salvation, the actions (loving service to others)
described in the chapter are the fruit, demonstrating genuine, living faith rather than merit-based salvation.

You need to be a new creation in Christ before you can even take the first steps in Christ.

We are saved by grace through faith and that is not from us, it is a free gift given to us.

If that is all there is, I claim I believe to escape hell and thus God is obligated give me eternal life based on my momentary thoughts? Does "God's free gift" come with ANY obligations?

 

[HeIsHere]

No, the author is telling readers not to commit apostasy, which warning he repeats in Heb. 10:28-39 for those who don't get it the first time in Heb. 6:4-6.

You can't see it I know, it is not uncommon for the people who think it is possible to un-justify oneself

to not be able to see what is being posited, it has to do with having the wrong lens.

There are warnings in the letter for certain, with regards to when believers fall from grace and are outside of God's protection which of course the conditional salvation crowd cannot really grasp either.

I always find it ironic that the believer who wrote the letter to the Hebrews, is in reality teaching the completeness of being born from above, once in a moment of time occurrence, never, ever to be forsaken, repealed or retracted.

 

[biblestudent78]

Of course they notice and they sometimes ridicule you.

They will stab you in the back but rarely discuss it with you.

Is that because you have equated human dogmas as justification before God? Is that because they do not see a love centered life or just because your dogmas seem to them more important that a converted life?

 

[biblestudent78]

Romans 8
"...but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption to sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.
If your hope is in the law, then you have no hope in Christ. If "indeed we suffer with Him," we will also be glorified with Him. There are two occurrences of 'sumpascho,' "suffer with," in the NT. The second occurrence is in 1Cor 12:26 and it speaks to all members suffering when one member suffers and all rejoicing when one member is honored.

Rev 5:12
In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

If you're honoring the law, then you're dishonoring the sufferings of Christ to deliver those under the law.
Gal 6:14-16
14But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation.

16Peace and mercy to all who walk by this rule, even to the Israel of God.

You are not a new creature if you're waiting for the judgment of your salvation at the resurrection.
2Cor 5:16-17
16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

I am interested in you analysis of what becoming a new creature means. Obviously, it is not talking about your soul but you becoming a new creature.

 

[HeIsHere]

I think the best scripture for this argument goes something like "he who endures until the end" So I do think salvation can be accepted and is instantaneous but "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine

The most false doctrine every manufactured is Jesus the Christ is necessary but not sufficient.

Me myself and I, must endure.

 

[biblestudent78]

That little Protestant gem is older than the early 1800's, it goes back to circa the 16th century, so more like 4-500 years. Now that Jesus had to die as a sacrifice to satisfy God's honor over the offense of sin is even older, all the way back to the 12th or 13 century but unknow before that. There are several things in scripture that are "obvious" to believers today that were "discovered" well after the time of the Apostles as indicated in the writings of the early church fathers who did not refer to these "obvious" points, but rather puzzled over them.

The specific phrase "once saved, always saved" is a more modern development often associated with Baptist theology in the United States, particularly from the 1830s–1840s onwards, which adapted the stricter Calvinist view. Calvin's view was the we are either predestined to be saved and nothing we can do prevents it. However, the vast majority of humanity is predestined by God to burn in hell and there is no way they can escape their destiny. TULIP. The later Baptist-Methodist evolution is based on a Arminian theology of free will, unlimited atonement, resistible grace and conditional security which was the message of circuit riding preachers during the 1st Great Awakening in the USA.

 

[PaulThomson]

"myth" might be an overstatement from one convinced of the opposite. Perspectives divide between those who believe salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin or apostasy (falling away) and those who believe in eternal security, arguing that true believers are permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin seems to be claiming Christ is of satan.

As for once saved alway saved or the possibility of losing salvation tend to breakdown on these passages.

Warning Passages: Passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 are frequently cited, suggesting that those who have been enlightened can "fall away" and make it impossible to be renewed. Falling from Grace: Galatians 5:1-5 is often interpreted as believers falling from grace. Unfruitful Branches: John 15:1-6 describes branches (believers) that do not bear fruit being cut off and burned. Willful Sin: Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains. Specific Sins: Verses in Revelation (e.g., 3:1-5) are interpreted to mean that names can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life.

Supporting Passages: Arguments Against Losing Salvation (Eternal Security): Irrevocable Gift: Proponents argue salvation is a gift from God, and "God's gifts and callings are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). Sealed by the Spirit: Ephesians 1:13-14 states believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of their inheritance. Those Who Fall Away Were Never Truly Saved: Many interpret passages like 1 John 2:19 ("they went out from us, but they were not of us") to mean that those who abandon the faith never truly possessed it to begin with. God's Power to Keep: John 10:28-29 emphasizes that no one can snatch a believer out of Jesus' or the Father's hand.

Strangely, both sides agree on one thing. If you swear you have been saved but live in opposition or indifference to your "salvation" you are damned...just using different logic. An irrevocable gift will not be withdrawn by the giver, but it can be accepted then rejected. In either case God's gift is permanent whereas our acceptance is not.

There is no "unforgivable sin" mentioned in scripture. The term "unforgivable sin” does not occur in scripture.

 

[wattie]

These are fundamental questions since the mid 16th century. Here we experience "salvation" as a mental affirmation for which we have deep motivation...staying out of hell, believe or burn. In this model any human effort is "anti-christian" as it subverts the mind the the body. God is only interested in what you think and is repulsed by any effort you make. The mind is equivalent to the soul in this model. The body is just the cargo container.

That's why the originators of this theology hated the books of James and Hebrews ( Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29) and would gladly have cut out the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew if they could get away with it. Jesus says all will suffer persecutions and problems in life, but those who endure to the end will be saved. So let's just say His definition of instantaneous might be life long. Paul in Galatians 5 says "What matters is faith expressing itself through love." If your love life is instantaneous then you are truly blessed for the majority it is a life-long endeavor.

The writer of Revelation seemed to think that salvation is for those who persevere. "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11I am coming soon.d Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

"I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! 16So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!" "To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Seems like the writer of Revelation considered "instantaneous salvation" was only available to those who overcome till death.

Paul seems to believe that your "faith" is just one of three requirements and not even the most important. He sees that Christians must "endure all things," hardly instantaneous.

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body,a but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. 6Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. 7It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. 12Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.

Thus, "instantaneous salvation" is as logical as instantaneous Love.

Just read John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40.

Romans 5:8, 10:9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[PaulThomson]

"myth" might be an overstatement from one convinced of the opposite. Perspectives divide between those who believe salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin or apostasy (falling away) and those who believe in eternal security, arguing that true believers are permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin seems to be claiming Christ is of satan.

As for once saved alway saved or the possibility of losing salvation tend to breakdown on these passages.

Warning Passages: Passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 are frequently cited, suggesting that those who have been enlightened can "fall away" and make it impossible to be renewed. Falling from Grace: Galatians 5:1-5 is often interpreted as believers falling from grace. Unfruitful Branches: John 15:1-6 describes branches (believers) that do not bear fruit being cut off and burned. Willful Sin: Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains. Specific Sins: Verses in Revelation (e.g., 3:1-5) are interpreted to mean that names can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life.

Supporting Passages: Arguments Against Losing Salvation (Eternal Security): Irrevocable Gift: Proponents argue salvation is a gift from God, and "God's gifts and callings are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). Sealed by the Spirit: Ephesians 1:13-14 states believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of their inheritance. Those Who Fall Away Were Never Truly Saved: Many interpret passages like 1 John 2:19 ("they went out from us, but they were not of us") to mean that those who abandon the faith never truly possessed it to begin with. God's Power to Keep: John 10:28-29 emphasizes that no one can snatch a believer out of Jesus' or the Father's hand.

Strangely, both sides agree on one thing. If you swear you have been saved but live in opposition or indifference to your "salvation" you are damned...just using different logic. An irrevocable gift will not be withdrawn by the giver, but it can be accepted then rejected. In either case God's gift is permanent whereas our acceptance is not.

Warning Passages: Passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 are frequently cited, suggesting that those who have been enlightened can "fall away" and make it impossible to be renewed. Falling from Grace: Galatians 5:1-5 is often interpreted as believers falling from grace. Unfruitful Branches: John 15:1-6 describes branches (believers) that do not bear fruit being cut off and burned. Willful Sin: Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains. Specific Sins: Verses in Revelation (e.g., 3:1-5) are interpreted to mean that names can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life.

Nowhere does scripture say “impossible to be renewed”. If I am healthy and become sick, I am “no longer" healthy. That does not mean I can never get well again. If someone steals my car from my garage, there is "no longer" a car in my garage. However, if the police recover it, it may well become back in my garage again. No longer. does not mean never again.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

There is no "unforgivable sin" mentioned in scripture. The term "unforgivable sin” does not occur in scripture.

There's this verse though:

Matthew 12:31–32, Mark 3:28–29, and Luke 12:10:

"Truly I tell you, all sins will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."

 

[sawdust]

Excuse me, but Matthew 25 is about the criteria God will use to send you to hell. So let's just agree that it is probably relevant for those current alive.

You're excused.

 

[GWH]

"myth" might be an overstatement from one convinced of the opposite. Perspectives divide between those who believe salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin or apostasy (falling away) and those who believe in eternal security, arguing that true believers are permanently sealed by the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin seems to be claiming Christ is of satan.

As for once saved alway saved or the possibility of losing salvation tend to breakdown on these passages.

Warning Passages: Passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29 are frequently cited, suggesting that those who have been enlightened can "fall away" and make it impossible to be renewed. Falling from Grace: Galatians 5:1-5 is often interpreted as believers falling from grace. Unfruitful Branches: John 15:1-6 describes branches (believers) that do not bear fruit being cut off and burned. Willful Sin: Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains. Specific Sins: Verses in Revelation (e.g., 3:1-5) are interpreted to mean that names can be removed from the Lamb's Book of Life.

Supporting Passages: Arguments Against Losing Salvation (Eternal Security): Irrevocable Gift: Proponents argue salvation is a gift from God, and "God's gifts and callings are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). Sealed by the Spirit: Ephesians 1:13-14 states believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of their inheritance. Those Who Fall Away Were Never Truly Saved: Many interpret passages like 1 John 2:19 ("they went out from us, but they were not of us") to mean that those who abandon the faith never truly possessed it to begin with. God's Power to Keep: John 10:28-29 emphasizes that no one can snatch a believer out of Jesus' or the Father's hand.

Strangely, both sides agree on one thing. If you swear you have been saved but live in opposition or indifference to your "salvation" you are damned...just using different logic. An irrevocable gift will not be withdrawn by the giver, but it can be accepted then rejected. In either case God's gift is permanent whereas our acceptance is not.

I agree re the warning, but the other passages do not contradict the need for perseverance:

Salvation may be intentionally repudiated rather than accidentally lost.
Salvation is a gift from God offered to all but opened only by some.
Rom. 11:29 means that God's offer is not withdrawn (cf. 2Tim. 2:13)
Sealed by the Spirit guarantees heaven assuming saving faith continues.
Apostates do not accidentally fall away but rather intentionally depart (1John 2:19) or reject what they truly possessed (Heb. 6:4-6).
No one can snatch believers from the Father's hand, but they can jump out and ship-wreck their faith (1Tim. 1:19, Heb. 10:26).