Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

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To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

A major point often misunderstood.
Do not confuse "EVIL" to mean "sin."
Adam did not eat from the Tree of Good and Sin.
He ate from Good and Evil.

Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Jesus could not die for evil.

For to do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

Those who follow EVIL will reject the message of salvation.
 
You can't see it I know, it is not uncommon for the people who think it is possible to un-justify oneself

to not be able to see what is being posited, it has to do with having the wrong lens.

There are warnings in the letter for certain, with regards to when believers fall from grace and are outside of God's protection which of course the conditional salvation crowd cannot really grasp either.

I always find it ironic that the believer who wrote the letter to the Hebrews, is in reality teaching the completeness of being born from above, once in a moment of time occurrence, never, ever to be forsaken, repealed or retracted.

Well, because GW warns people not to commit apostasy, I would suggest not contradicting Him by saying it is impossible.
 
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The "kingdom" of which we speak was ushered in on the first Pentecost after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Whatever was "established" at Pentecost was not the kingdom for Israel as Jews still sin. Paul differentiates the gospel of the circumcision from the gospel of the uncircumcision.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
 
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The woman who had the issue of blood for 12 years was saved by being healed. How does that fit into your equivocal definition of salvation?

She was healed because she was saved.
For she already was believing in the Lord before her healing.
 
She was healed because she was saved.
For she already was believing in the Lord before her healing.
Can you define “saved" in a way that is true for every instance of sOzO; and “salvation" in a way that is true of every instance of sOtEria in scripture. Special pleading is a logical fallacy.
 
No, the author is telling readers not to commit apostasy, which warning he repeats in Heb. 10:28-39 for those who don't get it the first time in Heb. 6:4-6.

They were committing apostasy because those Jews in the Temple were making a statement that the Cross of Christ was no better than an animal sacrifice. Refusing to realize that the animal sacrifices were meant as a preparatory teaching tool, needing to first convey to men God's purpose in having the blood atonement of Jesus on the Cross!
 
Can you define “saved" in a way that is true for every instance of sOzO; and “salvation" in a way that is true of every instance of sOtEria in scripture. Special pleading is a logical fallacy.

... (in regards to salvation unto eternal life...)


He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31​
 
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Seems to me this question has been around for 600 yrs. I am interested in how we the answer now.
the moment someone accepts & believes Jesus as savior, salvation moves in & it's permanent. but said person must realize he or she is a sinner saved by the grace of God. study 1st John 5:10- "he that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself, he that believeth not God, has made Him a liar because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son ", then 1st John 5:13, - "these things have we written unto you that believeth on the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE & that you may believe on the name of the Son of God". John 3:33 is revelation of the fact that Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside with them for life!
 
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There is no "unforgivable sin" mentioned in scripture. The term "unforgivable sin” does not occur in scripture.
While that is true about the term, Jesus said that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven.
 
the moment someone accepts & believes Jesus as savior, salvation moves in & it's permanent. but said person must realize he or she is a sinner saved by the grace of God. study 1st John 5:10- "he that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself, he that believeth not God, has made Him a liar because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son ", then 1st John 5:13, - "these things have we written unto you that believeth on the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE & that you may believe on the name of the Son of God". John 3:33 is revelation of the fact that Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside with them for life!
I too am a great fan of John. For instance: The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God. Thus John says if you have come to the light it is plainly evident by your deeds. If you claim to come to the light but your deeds are exactly equal to those who have no knowledge of Christ, then you have "not come to the light."

19 And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God. No matter what you "claim" if your life does not practice the truth where it is clearly seen by others, you are not part of the light.
 
I agree re the warning, but the other passages do not contradict the need for perseverance:

Salvation may be intentionally repudiated rather than accidentally lost.
Salvation is a gift from God offered to all but opened only by some.
Rom. 11:29 means that God's offer is not withdrawn (cf. 2Tim. 2:13)
Sealed by the Spirit guarantees heaven assuming saving faith continues.
Apostates do not accidentally fall away but rather intentionally depart (1John 2:19) or reject what they truly possessed (Heb. 6:4-6).
No one can snatch believers from the Father's hand, but they can jump out and ship-wreck their faith (1Tim. 1:19, Heb. 10:26).
In so saying, you have bridged the 400+ yr old divide. Well said.
 
A major point often misunderstood.
Do not confuse "EVIL" to mean "sin."
Adam did not eat from the Tree of Good and Sin.
He ate from Good and Evil.

Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Jesus could not die for evil.

For to do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

Those who follow EVIL will reject the message of salvation.
Interesting theology. Christians who do evil and hate the good are rejected by God, but if they "claim to have faith" they are blessed and accepted into glory. This is exactly at the dichogamy of the believe "right" and all is forgiven or evil is evil and never acceptable to God who cannot abide evil. Thus the ultimate question. Doses one's behavior have anything to do with one's eternal destination? Can you legitimately claim salvation by mental assent but deny salvation by your continuing commitment to an evil life?
 
the moment someone accepts & believes Jesus as savior, salvation moves in & it's permanent. but said person must realize he or she is a sinner saved by the grace of God. study 1st John 5:10- "he that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself, he that believeth not God, has made Him a liar because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son ", then 1st John 5:13, - "these things have we written unto you that believeth on the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE & that you may believe on the name of the Son of God". John 3:33 is revelation of the fact that Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside with them for life!
Thus 21st century Christianity is sin all you want but only after you claim to "believe" God's love and sacrifice thus you are "are saved". We have a Holy Get Out Of Hell Card for nodding our head to a 60 second pulpit prayer. There is no need to be converted. No need for life change. No need for taking up your own cross. How convenient.
 
A major point often misunderstood.
Do not confuse "EVIL" to mean "sin."
Adam did not eat from the Tree of Good and Sin.
He ate from Good and Evil.

Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Jesus could not die for evil.

For to do so?
He would have had to reject Himself.

Those who follow EVIL will reject the message of salvation.
Wow. Evil is no longer sin or sin is no longer evil. How convenient!
 
Just read John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40.

Romans 5:8, 10:9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9
I can proof text with the best of them. We pick and choose from the corpus of the the New Testament to "justify" or "validate" any dogma that we have concocted. These statements from John and Paul stand in contrast to their other statements. Thus we weave our theological web to always result in zero responsibility/conversion for us but obligate God to accept us into heaven no matter what. Very convenient.
 
Wow. Evil is no longer sin or sin is no longer evil. How convenient!

Evil is thinking anti truth to replace truth with a lie.

Sin is following and acting upon an unrighteous impulse that was originating in our flesh.
Sin requires no thinking.
Just impulse and acting upon it.

On the other hand.
Evil will concoct (thinking) lies to justify sinning.

Evil = Anti Truth.
Sin = Unrighteous action based upon impulses from the sin nature.

Evil protects the one who sinned from admitting to sin. = Self justification.
 
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Evil is thinking anti truth to replace truth with a lie.

Sin is following and acting upon an unrighteous impulse that was originating in our flesh.
Sin requires no thinking.
Just impulse and acting upon it.

On the other hand.
Evil will concoct (thinking) lies to justify sinning.

Evil = Anti Truth.
Sin = Unrighteous action based upon impulses from the sin nature.

Evil protects the one who sinned from admitting to sin. = Self justification.
Wow! Sin requires no thinking. That is a defense attorney's greatest gift. "Your Honor. He is not guilty because he did what he did naturally without thinking about it so you must find him "innocent." Thus killing his wife is just "an impulse" and thus not evil.. Your job judge is to determine was the murder thinking "anti-truth" or was he just sinning? If just sinning you must let him go free under the get out of hell card he holds that covers all his sins but not his "evils."

How convienent.
 
I can proof text with the best of them. We pick and choose from the corpus of the the New Testament to "justify" or "validate" any dogma that we have concocted. These statements from John and Paul stand in contrast to their other statements. Thus we weave our theological web to always result in zero responsibility/conversion for us but obligate God to accept us into heaven no matter what. Very convenient.

There is no contradiction between Paul and John.. or James.

They talk on different aspects of the faith, justification and sanctification...but don't disagree with each other.

For eg... who is being written to? What is the subject, time and place.
 
I am interested in you analysis of what becoming a new creature means. Obviously, it is not talking about your soul but you becoming a new creature.
Eph 2:15 alludes to a new breed of humanity, that is of One.