More about Israel.
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These threads on Israel fascinates me. Seeing the many different interpretations of scripture out of the same book but end in opposite opinions boggles my mind.
Yet it leads me to study harder and brings up more questions to be answered.
2000 yrs ago the religious sect that ruled the temple rejected Jesus as their messiah fulfilling prophecy.
Bringing on the trail and crucifixion of our Lord, ...again fulfilling prophecy.
3 days latter the resurrection takes place which is again....... fulfilling prophecy.
Many generations have come and gone since this event but yet most jews still reject the gospel accounts.
Besides the blindness God has given them does anyone here know why?
Imo Israel is still in bondage of false teachers, and as what recent events have taught us raising the youth to believe a certain belief such is the case of Islam causes great chaos.
Are we as Christians to reject Israel or to come along side in prayer and deed?
Yet it leads me to study harder and brings up more questions to be answered.
2000 yrs ago the religious sect that ruled the temple rejected Jesus as their messiah fulfilling prophecy.
Bringing on the trail and crucifixion of our Lord, ...again fulfilling prophecy.
3 days latter the resurrection takes place which is again....... fulfilling prophecy.
Many generations have come and gone since this event but yet most jews still reject the gospel accounts.
Besides the blindness God has given them does anyone here know why?
Imo Israel is still in bondage of false teachers, and as what recent events have taught us raising the youth to believe a certain belief such is the case of Islam causes great chaos.
Are we as Christians to reject Israel or to come along side in prayer and deed?
Commendable. So much better than doing what some others do by doubling down on regurgitating learned talking points.
Their religion teaches them to
We are to reject the idea that Israel is God's chosen nation, because as Paul said, not all Israel is Israel, and the elect believers of Israel found the righteousness of God, whereas the rest did not because they were blinded by unbelief.
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Romans 9:6-8
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded Romans 11:7
Therefore we should pray for God to open the eyes of those in their midst who were foreknown by him, whose names were written in the lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world, and to protect them from those who persecute them and hate Christ.
Galatians 5:22 refers not to saving faith as such, but to faithfulness in Christian living as part of the fruit of the Spirit.
A doctrine which requires that God himself must make the decision as to who will and who will not be saved and does this via unconditional election is not supported at all by scripture....
it is always through faith.
Faith and grace are distinguished, responding positively to the Good News (faith) is the condition which God sets, which means inability is wrong since God would not set it as a condition if it were not an activity which a person can do.
.....having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:12
The TULIP system requires that regeneration must precede faith; but Paul writes that faith must precede regeneration (resurrection to new spiritual life). It is not a gift of grace, but a condition for receiving grace.
In Colossians 2:12 Paul contradicts the heart of the Calvinist doctrine of salvation.
No one is sanctified/regenerated prior to exercising faith in the Good News.
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
John 1:12
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek".
Romans 1:16
Believes, receives, clearly the condition.
Several decades ago, I was willfully rebellious against God and for that, God sent me into the desert. But before He did that, He promised me that His hand will always be on and He will come back and heal our relationship. And He did - He kept His promise. I was brought back into fellowship with Him again and learned my lesson never to do that again and appreciating everything He is and the relationship He gave me on a much deeper level.
So I know how God is with Israel. If He brought me back better able to believe and appreciate Him, He going to do the same for Israel. The remnant will some day come to see Him as the Messiah and be brought into blessed relationship with Jesus as He has always wanted.
So in the meantime, we really should pray for Israel to be prepared for this special reunion. Satan has been trying to prevent it, just like he tried to prevent my reunion with God. He thought making my life miserable and raising up enemies will cause me not to receive God when He was bringing us together again. But it just made me run harder and faster back to God. And so it will be for the remnant.
You cant have Faith unless you are born again of the Spirit, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Yes, yes it is clear the unregenerate man cannot love either, I am sure that is exactly what the point of that verse is!
The verse reveals that Faith and Love are fruits of the Spirit.Yes, yes it is clear the unregenerate man cannot love either, I am sure that is exactly what the point of that verse is!
Hello again ChristRoseFromthedead,
I guess you did not understand me when I wrote, "The context of these chapters is Paul's helping believing Jews and Gentiles in Rome to understand who will be part of God's kingdom and who will not." When I say, who will be of part of God's kingdom", I am referring to heaven or paradise. So, salvation and being chosen are two separate things. Can you agree with that? Or do you believe it is one in the same? I can comment on the other things you wrote, but I don't want to sidetrack the conversation. I think before we can continue to discuss this topic, the first thing is to understand what being chosen means. Really interested in what you think. Thanks.
In the context that Paul writes in Romans 9-11 they are the same thing. The believing remnant in Israel are the elect who inherit the promises, whereas the disbelieving part of Israel are not elect and are rejected.
Bring 1 John chapter 3 and 4 into the understanding https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 John 3&version=KJV
Under the old covenant all that were physically circumcised in Israel were chosen. That was true even for gentile converts.
Under the new covenant all of faith in Christ in Israel, ie., the spiritually circumcised, are the chosen. This is true also for gentile converts. All in Israel who are not spiritually circumcised are not chosen/elect.
This is based on Paul making a distinction between the elect believing remnant of Israel who inherited the promises and the disbelieving part of Israel that was blinded and rejected. Throughout Romans 9-11 Paul uses the term election to refer to believing Israelites, and he never does so for unbelieving Israelites. Here he describes the unbelieving part of Israel as Israel that did not obtain what it was seeking and were blinded.
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Romans 11:7
A Saviour to Israel means that Jesus Christ purpose was to be a Saviour to Gods elect or chosen.
Acts 13:23
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
This proves that Paul preached a limited atonement, and Paul says that if any man preach another gospel different from what he had preached, let them be accursed.
Jesus resurrection was unto Israel, Gods Chosen ! 3
Acts 13:23
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
This proves that Paul preached a limited atonement, and Paul says that if any man preach another gospel different from what he had preached, let them be accursed.
Jesus resurrection was unto Israel, Gods Chosen ! 3
Thanks for clearing that up. If you consider chosen and elect in Romans 9-11 to be those who God chose to be saved, then yes in that definition it is for those chapters about coming to faith in Jesus in the new covenant. Do you see the new covenant elect as the new chosen people, replacing Jews as the chosen people or do you see this elect as only those who inherit the kingdom of God?
Yes, the new covenant elect are the new chosen people, out of both Jews and gentiles. However, believing Jews are not replaced; they are elect/chosen. Only disbelieving Jews were/are broken off and cast away, and elect/chosen gentiles are engrafted in their place.
"there is not one good, no not one!"
what nation or nations makes it through the final 1260 days -- none, no not one
what nation or nations makes it through the final 1260 days -- none, no not one
Thanks for answering honestly. It is good that you believe that believing Jews are not replaced and that they are still Jews even after believing in Jesus, however even unbelieving Jews are still chosen even in their unbelief, just a different kind of chosen than what you are referring to. The kind of chosen spoken about in Romans is the kind of chosen many pre-destination advocates use to promote their Calvinistic beliefs. A belief that people are pre-chosen beforehand by God to be saved and enter paradise while others are pre-destined for destruction. So, in a sense, these pre-elected people are chosen by God to by apart of His kingdom.
This pre-elected or pre-chosen people is not the same as the Abrahamic covenant that God has made with Israel. Therefore, the Abrahamic covenant is a different kind of chosen for a different purpose. All Jews whether believing or unbelieving are chosen under the Abrahamic covenant. The New Covenant does not remove the Abrahamic covenant, as the Abrahamic covenant is foundational to the New Covenant. But it also does not mean that unbelieving Jews get to go to paradise and are saved under the Abrahamic covenant, since that is the New Covenant's department. If you still think differently, then please provide clear cut scripture stating otherwise. Blessings.
Which covenant are you referring to? The covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 15:18 had nothing to do with Israel per Galatians 3:16. Are you referring to the covenant of circumcision in Genesis 17?
Repentance and Remission of sins is only for Gods elect or Chosen. Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And this Elect Israel is among the Gentiles Acts 11:18
Israel is another way of saying Gods chosen people, His elect.
For any to preach repentance without indicating specifically who it is for as peter does here, they are not preaching the whole counsel of God, which makes it a false gospel. 3
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And this Elect Israel is among the Gentiles Acts 11:18
Israel is another way of saying Gods chosen people, His elect.
For any to preach repentance without indicating specifically who it is for as peter does here, they are not preaching the whole counsel of God, which makes it a false gospel. 3
I understand your confusion, since the Abrahamic covenant is one covenant, but with many promises making it a Composite covenant. I think a better terminology would be what "promise" am I referring to?
But when I am referring to the Abrahamic covenant, I am referring to all the promises. God chose the people of Israel through Abraham, Issac, and Jacob to be the inheritors of a great nation, a people uniquely His own, specific land with defined borders as an everlasting possession, families of the earth would be blessed through them, the seed that would bless all nations with salvation would come through them, Jesus (what you were referring to I assume).
All these promises God chose the people of Israel to be blessed with. So, in this sense, Jews are chosen, but not in the same sense of new covenant promises as that is a different covenant. Can you see how Jews are still chosen outside of the new covenant?