Is "touch starvation" a real thing?

[Ceph]

"You shall not covet." Envy is the second deadliest sin.

I don't envy anyone. I can be content with how I am. I forgive the people who haven't been careful toward me. I just know I'm missing something about interacting with other people that's very important. It aches in my mind in the same way that a wound throbs on the skin.
And I know that I was close to obtaining it before. I know that it broke me in a way that I can't fully comprehend, since it ended.
I don't blame anyone. I know that I'm transforming, but I know that what happned to me was wrong. And I know that it's wrong to withold patience from other people.

 

[Lovette]

I don't envy anyone. I can be content with how I am. I forgive the people who haven't been careful toward me. I just know I'm missing something about interacting with other people that's very important. It aches in my mind in the same way that a wound throbs on the skin.
And I know that I was close to obtaining it before. I know that it broke me in a way that I can't fully comprehend, since it ended.
I don't blame anyone. I know that I'm transforming, but I know that what happned to me was wrong. And I know that it's wrong to withold patience from other people.

Neither do I. I've realized that God has blessed me tremendously, with such material abundance and physiological wellbeing that I know I don't deserve, I have so many perks that would make my peers envy such as a rent free apartment and stable job, I'm in no position to whine.

I've also realized that we're living in a strange era where it's easier than ever to have access to resources and information, yet it's harder than ever to have access to genuine human connection and relationship. It's a kind of grief, and like all grieves, you go through the five stages - denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I've reached acceptance.

 

[Lanolin]

"You shall not covet." Envy is the second deadliest sin.

I don't think Lazarus was coveting. He was just hungry.
The rich man was gluttonous.

 

[Lanolin]

Mothers hold their babies to their breasts, its called breast-feeding.
Baby Jesus was swaddled. That means they wrapped him up in blankets so that he was safe and secure. They didn't leave him naked or exposed.

 

[Lanolin]

Food is for everyone, like there's no 'my food' and 'your food' usually at a table it's shared.
It's only the european style of serving where everyone has their own portion already served. Its not coveting when you are at the table, sitting together.

Coveting or envying is wanting what someone else has, like someone's house or land. You might want to steal it or convince the others to give it to you, or buy it. But it's not yours, it belongs exclusively to someone else. It could be their birthright. Its more possessions - not food.

Food generally is not people's property lol. Once you eat it. it's gone.

 

[Lovette]

I don't think Lazarus was coveting. He was just hungry.
The rich man was gluttonous.

And I don't think Lazarus was coveting some skin to skin contact, rather than a little crumb for sustenance. In other world, real starvation is a third world problem, "touch starvation" might be a first world problem, and that's the subject for debate.

 

[Lanolin]

And I don't think Lazarus was coveting some skin to skin contact, rather than a little crumb for sustenance. In other world, real starvation is a third world problem, "touch starvation" might be a first world problem, and that's the subject for debate.

You can't covet skin contact. It's not a possession.

Do you live in the first world? I think starvation could be a problem anywhere. Rich people just have anorexia.
There's also 'food deserts' where people don't have access to fresh food, and thus live on junk food and are either malnourished or obese, because they subsist solely on carbs.

 

[Lanolin]

Anyway not sure what anyone's debating here, its not a first world problem, its a universal thing, its just the term or name for it is something new.

I guess a better word to describe it would be deprivation, rather than starvation.

 

[Mem]

"No contact" is the problem that social media markets itself as the solution. Contact that's no contact. And now, everyone has a touch of nomophobia, that is the fear of losing their phones. I pulled around a corner up on a pedestrian, and slightly looking over his shoulder at me driving up behind him, I noticed him reach in his pocket, pull out his phone, and look at it as if it'd comforted him of any danger of being run over...


Just like anything more than a splash of water on the lips of someone that's been lost in the desert for days and days can be life threatening, I'd think the slightest touch could be life preserving. I mean, a tug on a sleeve, or something, at least.

 

[Lanolin]

Well there is a time for embracing, and not embracing, right? Ecclesiastes 3:5

Or attachment, and detachment. Sometimes you just need to let go, as they say, and let God.

 

[Lovette]

You can't covet skin contact. It's not a possession.

Covetousness is never limited to material possession, it's more common in terms of appearance, achievement, relationship, talent, status, health, that sort of thing, things money can't buy.

Do you live in the first world? I think starvation could be a problem anywhere. Rich people just have anorexia.
There's also 'food deserts' where people don't have access to fresh food, and thus live on junk food and are either malnourished or obese, because they subsist solely on carbs.

Matt. 6:16-18 comes to mind. Anorexia is the modern day equivalent of "sad countenance", extreme diet culture is the modern day equivalent of "fasting for show". But that;s another topic for another day.

Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

 

[Lanolin]

Covetousness is never limited to material possession, it's more common in terms of appearance, achievement, relationship, talent, status, health, that sort of thing, things money can't buy.


Matt. 6:16-18 comes to mind. Anorexia is the modern day equivalent of "sad countenance", extreme diet culture is the modern day equivalent of "fasting for show". But that;s another topic for another day.

Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Coveting in the Bible is about property, land.

You just talking about being envious or jealous. It's not actual same thing people do to steal or buy or invade other people's land to take possession of it.

Sure you could steal someone's else's identity, or fake it. But you can't take someone's health, clone their fingerprints, take their talent and pass it off for you own, people will find you out.

Adultery is what happens if you covet someone elses' spouse. Their body does not belong to you. It only belongs to the spouse, if they are married.

You are confusing what is basically sensory deprivation, a form of neglect and abuse with coveting, and that is something else.

If you are married, and you consent to be apart and pray and fast, then thats ok. But if you are witholding affection from your own wife/husband, thats neglect, and even abuse. If you are wanting someone else's husband or wife, and have an affair with them hoping they'll be your wife or husband, you are coveting and stealing. They don't belong to you, its unlawful. It doesn't just apply to intimate relations but a heart matter.

So really if you can't handle celibacy, which is a gift, then you're better off married to someone who is NOT already married to someone else. Otherwise you'd just be fornicating with every Tom, Dick or Harry or soliciting prostitutes.

 

[Lovette]

Coveting in the Bible is about property, land.

You just talking about being envious or jealous. It's not actual same thing people do to steal or buy or invade other people's land to take possession of it.

Sure you could steal someone's else's identity, or fake it. But you can't take someone's health, clone their fingerprints, take their talent and pass it off for you own, people will find you out.

Adultery is what happens if you covet someone elses' spouse. Their body does not belong to you. It only belongs to the spouse, if they are married.

You are confusing what is basically sensory deprivation, a form of neglect and abuse with coveting, and that is something else.

If you are married, and you consent to be apart and pray and fast, then thats ok. But if you are witholding affection from your own wife/husband, thats neglect, and even abuse. If you are wanting someone else's husband or wife, and have an affair with them hoping they'll be your wife or husband, you are coveting and stealing. They don't belong to you, its unlawful. It doesn't just apply to intimate relations but a heart matter.

So really if you can't handle celibacy, which is a gift, then you're better off married to someone who is NOT already married to someone else. Otherwise you'd just be fornicating with every Tom, Dick or Harry or soliciting prostitutes.

Do you really have to go this far for a simple hug - or lack thereof?

 

[Lanolin]

Do you really have to go this far for a simple hug - or lack thereof?

?
If you want a hug just ask someone at church I'm sure they can give you one.
Or hug a plushy (cuddly toy)

It's not coveting to do this. I mean, you not going to hug them forever. Oh yea, the shoulder hug, that's a thing. In Maori culture, you give a hongi.

 

[Lanolin]

Corporates shake hands. I'm never sure why they do this, but your handshake has to be firm.
I prefer high fives.

 

[tourist]

I gotta admit I'm very skeptic on this, that's why I asked these four questions following the subject. I assume it's just a form of nostalgia, maybe you've experienced physical touch regularly in your childhood, maybe before COVID, maybe in a past relationship, now you're alone and you're just missing what you used to have.

Thank God that I am not alone and regularly experience physical touch.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

You've probably heard this frequently, a lack of touch - not verbal or textual contact via any form of communication, as in "keep in touch", but physical, skin to skin contact - with other human beings leads to oxytoxin deficiency, suboptimal mental state, sadness and other consequences. So I wonder:

1. Is this a real thing, or just whining from lonely losers?
2. If it is a real legitimate thing, is it a nicety or a necessity? In other words, a luxurious want or a basic need?
3. If it is a basic need, is it limited to infants, who can't survive without caretakers' touch, as reported?
4. If not just limited to infants, but also affecting adults, can it be substituted with pets or devices? Does holding a fuzzy kitty help?
5. If affecting adults, and can't be substituted with pets or devices, what's your solution? Go to a massage therapist? Prayer session? Or total denial of "touch starvation"?

Yes, it's a real physiological, psychological, and spiritual reality.

For a Bible example, I was just reading this morning in 1 Thessalonians 5:26
"Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss."
This was an affectionate greeting that was common in that culture and continues today in traditional Europe and the Middle East. My oldest uncle from Italy would greet us all with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. That was common with families in his generation.

I studied Behavioral Psychology. There's an infamous experiment that BF Skinner, father of Behavioral Psych, who was known for experimenting on his own child.
She was denied touch in the Skinner Box for a period of time. She quit lecturing to our HS classes when she was understandably asked repeatedly what it was like to be that test subject.

The Eugenics movement, based upon Darwin Evolutionism, was a religious/philosophical practice promoted by some main line denominations throughout America and Europe in the 1900's. They taught sterilization of those who were deemed imperfect physically or mentally. Most are unaware that this continues today in the Land of the Free.

Margaret Sanger, a heroine of Chancler A. Hitler was awarded and venerated by him as much as do the socialists/leftists in the West today. This was a religious tennent of his National Socialist German Workers party.
They implemented baby farms for their "master race." Many tens of thousands were stolen from their mother's in other countries and "raised" by the medical nurses in warehouse mass production factory settings. No babies experienced any compassion or touch other than to change diapers.

 

[tourist]

Well there is a time for embracing, and not embracing, right? Ecclesiastes 3:5

Or attachment, and detachment. Sometimes you just need to let go, as they say, and let God.

A lot of embracing in the Song of Solomon.

 

[Snackersmom]

You've probably heard this frequently, a lack of touch - not verbal or textual contact via any form of communication, as in "keep in touch", but physical, skin to skin contact - with other human beings leads to oxytoxin deficiency, suboptimal mental state, sadness and other consequences. So I wonder:

1. Is this a real thing, or just whining from lonely losers?
2. If it is a real legitimate thing, is it a nicety or a necessity? In other words, a luxurious want or a basic need?
3. If it is a basic need, is it limited to infants, who can't survive without caretakers' touch, as reported?
4. If not just limited to infants, but also affecting adults, can it be substituted with pets or devices? Does holding a fuzzy kitty help?
5. If affecting adults, and can't be substituted with pets or devices, what's your solution? Go to a massage therapist? Prayer session? Or total denial of "touch starvation"?

I think touch deprivation is a bit like sunlight deprivation. Technically we can live without either one (as long as vitamin D is supplied somehow), but we are generally happier and healthier if we have them.

I do not think it is an issue of coveting, at least in most cases. Touch and sunlight are both things we were wired to have; man was created for life in a garden and woman was created as a gift for man.

However, despite being designed for both touch and sunlight, I think God can give us grace when we do not have access to either. Just another example of His strength being made perfect in weakness!

 

[Lovette]

?
If you want a hug just ask someone at church I'm sure they can give you one.
Or hug a plushy (cuddly toy)

It's not coveting to do this. I mean, you not going to hug them forever. Oh yea, the shoulder hug, that's a thing. In Maori culture, you give a hongi.

No, it's not coveting, it's envy, if you see others enjoying it and you don't have it.