The book of Job

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nope.





yep ... which is why Job was not killed by satan when satan killed Job's children.

p.s. please answer this question:
where in the Book of Job did God call Job a "potsherd"?



.

In Job 40:2 Where God said Job was striving with him. God called those that strive with him potsherds in Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

God said 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I don't know if you believe that all scripture is inspired by God, but if you do believe all scripture is inspired by by God, then by implication between Job 40:2 and Isaiah 45:9, you have to see that Job is a potsherd. A potsherd is vessel of clay that has to be broken because it contained sin. Job was a vessel of clay that was broken, and you can't deny that. That makes Job a potsherd.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
where in the Book of Job did God call Job a "potsherd"?

In Job 40:2 Where God said Job was striving with him.
There is no verse in Job wherein God called Job a potsherd ... and there are 2 verses in the Book of Job in which the Hebrew word ḥereś (translated into English "potsherd") is found:

Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd [Hebrew = ḥereś] to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

This is not describing Job as a potsherd ... this is speaking of Job scraping his itching, inflamed skin with a piece of pottery.


Job 41:30 Sharp stones [Hebrew = ḥereś] are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

this verse is speaking of the underside of leviathan. You and I have discussed this verse ... you and I are not in agreement concerning its interpretation.





God called those that strive with him potsherds in Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
We know from Job 1 and Job 2 that it was satan behind all the affliction suffered by Job ... not God. You can deny this truth all you want but, again, you would be wrong.

While Job's friends thought Job was being punished by God for sin on the part of Job for which he needed to repent ... and while Job thought God was afflicting him, we both know that it was not God, but satan, who was behind what was going on in Job's life.

Therefore, this verse in Isaiah is not applicable because Job was not resisting God ... Job (unbeknownst to him and his friends) was resisting satan's attack.





God said 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I don't know if you believe that all scripture is inspired by God, but if you do believe all scripture is inspired by by God, then by implication between Job 40:2 and Isaiah 45:9, you have to see that Job is a potsherd. A potsherd is vessel of clay that has to be broken because it contained sin. Job was a vessel of clay that was broken, and you can't deny that. That makes Job a potsherd.
under this rendering all descendants of Adam are "potsherds" (you included).

In Job, God explicitly states that it was satan who afflicted Job ... and that there was "no cause" found in Job, yet satan still afflicted Job.

In the case of Job, you know darn good and well that it was not God Who afflicted Job.

That is the whole point of the Book of Job ... not every situation we find ourselves in wherein the adversary is seeking to devour us is due to sinful behavior on our part.

You, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, and Elihu all believe Job had sinned and needed to repent so he could be restored to fellowship with God.

Job declared his innocence in the situation he found himself in ... and he was correct. He had not sinned ... Job was under attack from satan.

I cannot make this more plain for you, tttallison. you either believe it or you don't. you speak of all Scripture being inspired by God, but I do not know if you believe it because what Job went through has been explained to you in this thread by myself and others, yet you continue to claim that Job was being punished by God because Job "sinned with his heart" ... an idea which is not affirmed by God any place in Scripture.


James 5:10-11

10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

.
 
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reneweddaybyday said:
where in the Book of Job did God call Job a "potsherd"?


There is no verse in Job wherein God called Job a potsherd ... and there are 2 verses in the Book of Job in which the Hebrew word ḥereś (translated into English "potsherd") is found:

Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd [Hebrew = ḥereś] to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

This is not describing Job as a potsherd ... this is speaking of Job scraping his itching, inflamed skin with a piece of pottery.


Job 41:30 Sharp stones [Hebrew = ḥereś] are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

this verse is speaking of the underside of leviathan. You and I have discussed this verse ... you and I are not in agreement concerning its interpretation.





We know from Job 1 and Job 2 that it was satan behind all the affliction suffered by Job ... not God. You can deny this truth all you want but, again, you would be wrong.

While Job's friends thought Job was being punished by God for sin on the part of Job for which he needed to repent ... and while Job thought God was afflicting him, we both know that it was not God, but satan, who was behind what was going on in Job's life.

Therefore, this verse in Isaiah is not applicable because Job was not resisting God ... Job (unbeknownst to him and his friends) was resisting satan's attack.





under this rendering all descendants of Adam are "potsherds" (you included).

In Job, God explicitly states that it was satan who afflicted Job ... and that there was "no cause" found in Job, yet satan still afflicted Job.

In the case of Job, you know darn good and well that it was not God Who afflicted Job.

That is the whole point of the Book of Job ... not every situation we find ourselves in wherein the adversary is seeking to devour us is due to sinful behavior on our part.

You, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, and Elihu all believe Job had sinned and needed to repent so he could be restored to fellowship with God.

Job declared his innocence in the situation he found himself in ... and he was correct. He had not sinned ... Job was under attack from satan.

I cannot make this more plain for you, tttallison. you either believe it or you don't. you speak of all Scripture being inspired by God, but I do not know if you believe it because what Job went through has been explained to you in this thread by myself and others, yet you continue to claim that Job was being punished by God because Job "sinned with his heart" ... an idea which is not affirmed by God any place in Scripture.


James 5:10-11

10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.


11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

.

I know parents who have kids that no matter what the kids do the parents are in denial.

It has to be all emotional, because it definitely is not logical.

You have several verses that you cling to in the book of Job at the expense of the 40 other chapters. You will never see the beauty of this book, or the goodness of God in this book, until you read and understand the other 40 chapters. Job went through 41 chapters of the book without ever experiencing the goodness of God, until Job repented.
 
I know parents who have kids that no matter what the kids do the parents are in denial.

It has to be all emotional, because it definitely is not logical.

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You have several verses that you cling to in the book of Job at the expense of the 40 other chapters. You will never see the beauty of this book, or the goodness of God in this book, until you read and understand the other 40 chapters.
I have read and studied the Book of Job more than a few times (the Book as a whole ... not just a verse here or a verse there).

How about you, have you studied the Book of Job?






Job went through 41 chapters of the book without ever experiencing the goodness of God, until Job repented.
not so, tttallison. Job had a relationship with God prior to all he went through. Job reverenced God and turned away from evil (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:5). While Job's relationship with God grew deeper after going through what he did because God revealed Himself more fully to Job in chapters 38-41, do not dismiss his relationship with God prior to his affliction.

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not so, tttallison. Job had a relationship with God prior to all he went through. Job reverenced God and turned away from evil (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:5). While Job's relationship with God grew deeper after going through what he did because God revealed Himself more fully to Job in chapters 38-41, do not dismiss his relationship with God prior to his affliction.

.

The heading in the Blue Letter Bible at the top of Job chapter nine reads, "Job Says There Is No Arbitrator between God and Man"
Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? Job is agreeing with what Bildad stated in chapter eight, but Job does not know how to be right with God. Have you read this verse?

Job 9:11 Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not. Job know there is a God but Job does not know him. Contrast this verse with Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. By this time Job has repented and has a personal relationship with God.

Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge. Job will not answer God, but he would have a judge to hear his plea. If you read this chapter you will hear Job saying God is not fair, God is not just, and Job wants a man such as himself to be his judge. Job doesn't think he will have a fair trial with God sitting as Judge, since God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.

God sent Elihu at this request of Job to stand in the place of God. God sent a young man that would not terrorize Job. This was Job's request.
 
In Chapter 1 of Job he gives burnt sacrifices in the event that his children have sinned in order to turn away the wrath of God by satisfying the demands of justice. This is known as a propitiation of sins. A burnt sacrifice is like paying money for something, it is all gone, you don't get to eat part of that animal, the whole price goes to God. What exactly does that mean? Obviously as many have already noted it is a type of Jesus' propitiation for us when He died on the cross. However, the book of Job reveals all the stuff that Job has to go through to turn away the wrath of God for the sins of his children. So then it was not God or Satan that prompted the attack, it was Job offering to make a burnt offering as a propitiation for his children's sins. God accepted His offering to do this, which is why he notified Satan to go and collect.
 
In Chapter 1 of Job he gives burnt sacrifices in the event that his children have sinned in order to turn away the wrath of God by satisfying the demands of justice. This is known as a propitiation of sins. A burnt sacrifice is like paying money for something, it is all gone, you don't get to eat part of that animal, the whole price goes to God. What exactly does that mean? Obviously as many have already noted it is a type of Jesus' propitiation for us when He died on the cross. However, the book of Job reveals all the stuff that Job has to go through to turn away the wrath of God for the sins of his children. So then it was not God or Satan that prompted the attack, it was Job offering to make a burnt offering as a propitiation for his children's sins. God accepted His offering to do this, which is why he notified Satan to go and collect.

That really sounds absurd to me. So Job's sons have salvation?
 
God put Job on a pedestal which lasted until the second test. After the second test God is completely silent. Have you intellectually investigated the two tests? Do you even acknowledge the two tests?

So let's look at what you have stated regarding the foundation of Job's story as laid out in chapters 1 & 2.

In Post #450, you were asked if you accept the terms of the story as written in chapters 1 & 2, and if you accept God's testimony about Job, that his suffering arose "without cause" yes, or no? You stated:

I can't answer yes or no because your premise is false.

Then, in Post #451 you stated:

God's cause for allowing the two tests was to give Job an opportunity to repent.

So, by your statement here you indicate you believe there is a cause.

However, in Post #453, you stated:

Actually I do accept God's testimony

God's testimony is that Job is blameless and that satan moved God against Job "without cause". "Without cause" means there was no reason for Job to suffer, unlike the example you provided of Judah, who clearly suffered because of their sin.

Are you aware of the apparent contradictions in your positions regarding the foundation of Job's story?

Perhaps you are very aware of these contradictions, and perhaps that is the reason for espousing this notion of "God's cause" vs. "satan's cause". Is that it? If so, I'll ask again, where are you getting this idea from? What are you basing this secret, hidden knowledge of "God's cause" vs. "satan's cause"? It's like some kind of fancy footwork so that you can have things both ways.

What every reader can see, God's testimony is that Job's suffering is without cause. That is what is written. From most of what you have written, your overall estimation is the opposite of God's testimony. But, according to you, God "says" without cause, but He does not "mean" without cause. Huh??

I would love to address ALL of the other points you have brought up. However, as mentioned before, it is difficult to do so when the foundations that we are working from are not the same.

And if the foundation for interpreting the story is faulty, then guess what?

You also never explained why you rearranged the order of events in chapters 1 & 2, as pointed out to you in Post #456.
 
The heading in the Blue Letter Bible at the top of Job chapter nine reads, "Job Says There Is No Arbitrator between God and Man"
so? ... the heading is not part of Scripture and should not be considered to be "God breathed" (2 Tim 3:16).




Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? Job is agreeing with what Bildad stated in chapter eight, but Job does not know how to be right with God. Have you read this verse?
disagree that Job did not "know how to be right with God". Job knew God and Job had a close relationship with God.

Job 8:1-6

1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,

2 How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?

3 Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?

4 If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;

5 If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;

6 If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.


vs 2 – Bildad rebuked Job for Job's disagreement with Eliphaz (Job 6-7). Bildad "heard" Job's words but Bildad dismissed Job's words and did not consider Job's words.

vss 3-4 – Bildad accused God of killing Job's children when it was satan who was behind all the calamity that occurred in Job 1:14-19. In Job's condition, Bildad showed no care or concern for his "friend". Bildad piled pain upon pain.

In Job 6:14-15, Job told Eliphaz that he and his friends should be kind to him in his affliction, but his friends (Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu) offended Job (they kicked Job when he was down). Their words were as the stream of a brook that dries up.

vss 5-6 – Bildad told Job that if Job would seek out God, then God would answer him if Job "wert pure and upright". Job did seek God during his time of affliction. Job repeatedly cried out to God. God remained silent until Job 38.





Job 9:11 Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not. Job know there is a God but Job does not know him. Contrast this verse with Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. By this time Job has repented and has a personal relationship with God.
your statement "Job know there is a God but Job does not know him" is completely unfounded.

your claim completely contradicts what God says about Job ... that Job "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3).

Job had a personal relationship with God prior to Job 42:5 ... however, during the affliction Job suffered from satan (Job 2:7), Job felt distanced from God.

Have you considered all the many times Job cried out to God?





Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge. Job will not answer God, but he would have a judge to hear his plea. If you read this chapter you will hear Job saying God is not fair, God is not just, and Job wants a man such as himself to be his judge. Job doesn't think he will have a fair trial with God sitting as Judge, since God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job was not asking for "a man such as himself to be his judge". Job's friends had already judged Job and Job disagreed with them.

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "God is not fair, God is not just".

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "Job wants a man such as himself be his judge".

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "Job doesn't think he will have a fair trial with God sitting as Judge".

What Job said in vs 15 was "though I were righteous, yet would I not answer". Job would not rely on his own righteousness... Job would make his supplication to my judge ... Job would rely solely upon the grace and mercy of God ... Job would not rely on anything he had done in and of himself.

Paul said the same:

1 Corinthians 4:3-4

3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.


5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God




God sent Elihu at this request of Job to stand in the place of God. God sent a young man that would not terrorize Job. This was Job's request.
Elihu had the same opinion of Job as did Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar.

Elihu spoke in anger (Job 32:2; Job 32:5) and while Elihu was much more verbose, Elihu was completely unaware that Job was suffering at the hand of satan for no other reason than that Job was declared by God to be "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3).

Elihu said God thrusteth him down (Job 32:13). According to Job 2:7, who afflicted Job with sore boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head?

Elihu said of himself ... I am according to thy wish in God's stead (Job 33:6). God did not say He sent Elihu "in His stead" ... and Elihu specifically stated "Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion" (Job 32:10).

Elihu said that Job goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men (Job 34:8) ... which was wholly untrue and was something Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar believed concerning Job.

Elihu claimed that Job said It profits a man nothing that he should delight in God (Job 34:9) ... nowhere did Job state what Elihu claimed.

Here is more of Elihu's opinion of Job:

My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God (Job 34:36-37). Elihu's desire was that Job's affliction would continue and not abate. Elihu believed that Job's disagreement with what Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu claimed was "rebellion".

Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? For thou saidst, What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin? (Job 35:2-3) ... Job never said what Elihu claimed.

He delivereth the poor in his affliction, and openeth their ears in oppression. Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee (Job 36:15-17) ... nowhere does God state that Job was under the judgment of the wicked ... we know because of what is revealed in Job 1-2 that Job was suffering at the hand of satan.

Job and his friends were not privy to information we are afforded and when we read the Book of Job we must remember this fact as we read through the various statements and comments made by Job and his friends.


.
 
That really sounds absurd to me. So Job's sons have salvation?
The book of Job is not about his sons. If you want to sum it up it is about Jesus Christ, our forerunner who told us that if we want to follow Him we need to take up our cross and follow Him. It tells you the story of what Jesus Christ did to pay the price for our sins, and what the church needs to do to help pull many more out of the fire that they too can be saved.
 
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God's testimony is that Job is blameless and that satan moved God against Job "without cause". "Without cause" means there was no reason for Job to suffer, unlike the example you provided of Judah, who clearly suffered because of their sin.
agree Job suffered without cause.

I do not believe "satan moved God against Job".

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

the words "although thou movedst me" are translated from the Hebrew word sûṯ which means to incite, to urge, to allure, to entice, to instigate.

While satan urged God to afflict Job ... God did not do so in Job 1 or in Job 2.

satan was the one who moved against Job ...

in Job 1:11, satan told God to "put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath". God refused to do so, and told satan "all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand" (Job 1:12).

in Job 2, God told satan "he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6) and in Job 2:7 we see that it was satan who "smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown".

and I understand concept of God "allowing" this or that but that is not the same as God doing what He tells us satan does.

.
 
So let's look at what you have stated regarding the foundation of Job's story as laid out in chapters 1 & 2.

In Post #450, you were asked if you accept the terms of the story as written in chapters 1 & 2, and if you accept God's testimony about Job, that his suffering arose "without cause" yes, or no? You stated:



Then, in Post #451 you stated:



So, by your statement here you indicate you believe there is a cause.

However, in Post #453, you stated:



God's testimony is that Job is blameless and that satan moved God against Job "without cause". "Without cause" means there was no reason for Job to suffer, unlike the example you provided of Judah, who clearly suffered because of their sin.

Are you aware of the apparent contradictions in your positions regarding the foundation of Job's story?

Perhaps you are very aware of these contradictions, and perhaps that is the reason for espousing this notion of "God's cause" vs. "satan's cause". Is that it? If so, I'll ask again, where are you getting this idea from? What are you basing this secret, hidden knowledge of "God's cause" vs. "satan's cause"? It's like some kind of fancy footwork so that you can have things both ways.

What every reader can see, God's testimony is that Job's suffering is without cause. That is what is written. From most of what you have written, your overall estimation is the opposite of God's testimony. But, according to you, God "says" without cause, but He does not "mean" without cause. Huh??

I would love to address ALL of the other points you have brought up. However, as mentioned before, it is difficult to do so when the foundations that we are working from are not the same.

And if the foundation for interpreting the story is faulty, then guess what?

You also never explained why you rearranged the order of events in chapters 1 & 2, as pointed out to you in Post #456.
Have you read my statement where I explained that there was Satan's cause and there was God's cause. I have never seen where you addressed this point. If you had addressed this point you would not, or should not, be accusing me of rearranging the order of events.
 
so? ... the heading is not part of Scripture and should not be considered to be "God breathed" (2 Tim 3:16).





disagree that Job did not "know how to be right with God". Job knew God and Job had a close relationship with God.

Job 8:1-6

1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,

2 How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?

3 Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?

4 If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;

5 If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;

6 If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.


vs 2 – Bildad rebuked Job for Job's disagreement with Eliphaz (Job 6-7). Bildad "heard" Job's words but Bildad dismissed Job's words and did not consider Job's words.

vss 3-4 – Bildad accused God of killing Job's children when it was satan who was behind all the calamity that occurred in Job 1:14-19. In Job's condition, Bildad showed no care or concern for his "friend". Bildad piled pain upon pain.

In Job 6:14-15, Job told Eliphaz that he and his friends should be kind to him in his affliction, but his friends (Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu) offended Job (they kicked Job when he was down). Their words were as the stream of a brook that dries up.

vss 5-6 – Bildad told Job that if Job would seek out God, then God would answer him if Job "wert pure and upright". Job did seek God during his time of affliction. Job repeatedly cried out to God. God remained silent until Job 38.





your statement "Job know there is a God but Job does not know him" is completely unfounded.

your claim completely contradicts what God says about Job ... that Job "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3).

Job had a personal relationship with God prior to Job 42:5 ... however, during the affliction Job suffered from satan (Job 2:7), Job felt distanced from God.

Have you considered all the many times Job cried out to God?





Job was not asking for "a man such as himself to be his judge". Job's friends had already judged Job and Job disagreed with them.

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "God is not fair, God is not just".

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "Job wants a man such as himself be his judge".

You read this chapter and you hear Job saying "Job doesn't think he will have a fair trial with God sitting as Judge".

What Job said in vs 15 was "though I were righteous, yet would I not answer". Job would not rely on his own righteousness... Job would make his supplication to my judge ... Job would rely solely upon the grace and mercy of God ... Job would not rely on anything he had done in and of himself.

Paul said the same:

1 Corinthians 4:3-4

3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.


5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God





Elihu had the same opinion of Job as did Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar.

Elihu spoke in anger (Job 32:2; Job 32:5) and while Elihu was much more verbose, Elihu was completely unaware that Job was suffering at the hand of satan for no other reason than that Job was declared by God to be "perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3).

Elihu said God thrusteth him down (Job 32:13). According to Job 2:7, who afflicted Job with sore boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head?

Elihu said of himself ... I am according to thy wish in God's stead (Job 33:6). God did not say He sent Elihu "in His stead" ... and Elihu specifically stated "Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion" (Job 32:10).

Elihu said that Job goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men (Job 34:8) ... which was wholly untrue and was something Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar believed concerning Job.

Elihu claimed that Job said It profits a man nothing that he should delight in God (Job 34:9) ... nowhere did Job state what Elihu claimed.

Here is more of Elihu's opinion of Job:

My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God (Job 34:36-37). Elihu's desire was that Job's affliction would continue and not abate. Elihu believed that Job's disagreement with what Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu claimed was "rebellion".

Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? For thou saidst, What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin? (Job 35:2-3) ... Job never said what Elihu claimed.

He delivereth the poor in his affliction, and openeth their ears in oppression. Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee (Job 36:15-17) ... nowhere does God state that Job was under the judgment of the wicked ... we know because of what is revealed in Job 1-2 that Job was suffering at the hand of satan.

Job and his friends were not privy to information we are afforded and when we read the Book of Job we must remember this fact as we read through the various statements and comments made by Job and his friends.


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I never said the Blue Letter Bible heading was inspired scripture. Do you disagree with the Blue Letter Bible heading?

OK! So you don't believe Job, when Job said he didn't know how to be just with God. Just how much of the book of Job have you rewritten to fit your narrative?

Bildad knew that neither Satan, nor anyone, can do more than God allows. Job agreed with what Bildad stated in chapter eight.

You are rewriting this book to fit your own narrative. It is like you have blinders on. Everyone is wrong when they say something that is negative in regard to Job, and that even includes Job. So let me ask you two questions about two of God's statements.

God said Job was without knowledge. What did God mean when he said Job was without knowledge?

God said Job had reproved him. What did God mean when he said Job reproved God?
 
The book of Job is not about his sons. If you want to sum it up it is about Jesus Christ, our forerunner who told us that if we want to follow Him we need to take up our cross and follow Him. It tells you the story of what Jesus Christ did to pay the price for our sins, and what the church needs to do to help pull many more out of the fire that they too can be saved.

In post 467 you seem to be saying Job bought salvation for his sons with an offering that God accepted. Did you actually say that?
 
In post 467 you seem to be saying Job bought salvation for his sons with an offering that God accepted. Did you actually say that?
No. I said he offered to do that and God took him up on his offer at making a burnt offering for sin. This was a type and shadow of Jesus propitiatiating sacrifice, just as Isaac being sacrificed by Abraham was a type and shadow. Job plays a central role in the Old Testament at presenting Jesus Christ offering Himself as a burnt offering for the propitiation of sins. That is the premise in chapter 1 of Job. Jesus tells us that this book and every other book in the Old Testament is about Him. So when you expound on the scriptures you have to figure out what is this saying about Jesus. It is saying that the things that happened to Him were because He was a burnt offering for a propitiating sacrifice for our sins. I told you that Job is not about his sons, that is not wholly true. The book starts with all of his children being sinners who die in their sin and ends with Job having 5 of the most beautiful daughters, depicting 5 churches (not all 7 of the churches were beautiful). So we see a transformation as sinful man is redeemed from sin and transformed into the expression of a beautiful life. Job offered to make a burnt offering for their sins and we see the result in the end of the book.
 
No. I said he offered to do that and God took him up on his offer at making a burnt offering for sin. This was a type and shadow of Jesus propitiatiating sacrifice, just as Isaac being sacrificed by Abraham was a type and shadow. Job plays a central role in the Old Testament at presenting Jesus Christ offering Himself as a burnt offering for the propitiation of sins. That is the premise in chapter 1 of Job. Jesus tells us that this book and every other book in the Old Testament is about Him. So when you expound on the scriptures you have to figure out what is this saying about Jesus. It is saying that the things that happened to Him were because He was a burnt offering for a propitiating sacrifice for our sins. I told you that Job is not about his sons, that is not wholly true. The book starts with all of his children being sinners who die in their sin and ends with Job having 5 of the most beautiful daughters, depicting 5 churches (not all 7 of the churches were beautiful). So we see a transformation as sinful man is redeemed from sin and transformed into the expression of a beautiful life. Job offered to make a burnt offering for their sins and we see the result in the end of the book.

I don't know what bible you are reading but I don't know of any translation that lists 5 daughters.

It is amazing that you see Job as an offering for sin. A man that didn't know how to be just with God, and thought God was not righteous enough to be his judge. A man who cursed the day he was born. A man who reproved God. A man who said he desired to be free from his master.

Job might have been self righteous in the beginning, but the bible says once a self-righteous man sins he is no longer righteous. I am appalled that you would equate Job to my Lord and Saviour.
 

The Book of Job as Gospel Typology​


Job as a Type of Christ​


Job opens by offering burnt offerings as propitiation for his children's sins. This establishes him as a priestly figure who voluntarily offers himself on behalf of others. God accepts this offering, and Satan is dispatched — not as an autonomous adversary but as an unwitting instrument of divine administration, unknowingly executing the very redemptive purpose he thinks he is subverting. This mirrors Acts 2:23 — Christ delivered up by the predetermined plan of God through the hands of wicked men.


The Children's Deaths​


The first ten children die in their sins, before the propitiating sacrifice is applied. This depicts the condition of humanity prior to the Cross — under the full weight of sin's consequences with no covering yet in place.


Job's Suffering​


The stripping away of everything — wealth, children, health, reputation — maps onto the kenosis and humiliation of the Incarnation culminating at the Cross. The suffering is not punishment, not arbitrary, and not evidence of God's absence. God is in the midst of it, speaking through it, executing a redemptive purpose that Job cannot yet see.


The Three Friends as False Theology​


They represent the law's accusation — suffering equals guilt. Their theology condemns rather than redeems. Job must ultimately intercede for them, just as Christ intercedes for those whose religion produced accusation rather than salvation.


Elihu as Prophetic Voice of the Trinity​


Elihu speaks on behalf of the triune God and his speech operates on three levels simultaneously:


  • Historical — addressing Job directly in his suffering
  • Christological — pointing to Christ as the mediator and ransom from the pit
  • Ecclesiological — describing the minister's calling under suffering

His key contributions are:


  • God cannot do wickedness — the suffering is not arbitrary
  • God speaks through suffering and dreams to draw men back from the pit
  • A mediator exists who can ransom a man and restore him to health and righteousness
  • The proper response to suffering is humility, not accusation
  • God is not an absentee judge — He is present in the suffering
  • Job's error is speaking without knowledge, which is rebellion requiring repentance

Job's Fundamental Error​


Job asks what profit is my righteousness — a transactional view that treats righteousness as a currency God owes a return on. The correct question is what profit is my life if I have the life of God in me — because the man who carries the life of God has the voice and arm of God to speak life to the perishing and pull them from the fire (Jude 23, Job 40:9).


The 2 Corinthians 1 Principle Embedded in Job​


God speaks through suffering to draw the minister toward Him. The minister goes to God on his knees, receives comfort and understanding, and that received comfort becomes the content of a ministry to others in similar suffering. Job's suffering, properly received, was always intended to produce a Job-shaped ministry. The book ends with Job interceding for his accusers — precisely this ministry being enacted.


The Restored Children as Redeemed Believers​


The second set of children are given in equal number, not doubled like the rest of Job's restoration — suggesting they are not mere replacements but something qualitatively different. The daughters are named, described as most beautiful in the land, and given inheritance alongside their brothers — an almost unprecedented act in the patriarchal narrative. This depicts redeemed believers transformed by propitiation, given full inheritance rights as co-heirs (Romans 8:17, Galatians 3:28-29).


The Overall Arc​


The book moves from sin uncovered → voluntary propitiation → suffering that speaks → the mediator's ransom → restoration and full inheritance. This is the gospel hidden in Israel's wisdom literature, with Job as the type, Elihu as the prophetic herald, and the restored household as the redeemed church.
 
I never said the Blue Letter Bible heading was inspired scripture. Do you disagree with the Blue Letter Bible heading?
I don't pay attention to the headings.

while it is nice to have book, chapter, and verses spelled out, the original texts were scrolls ... one long writing ... and keep in mind the chapters and verses were added to the text.

look at the first chapter in Genesis ... Genesis 1 should have ended at Genesis 2:3 ... and Genesis 2:4 should be Genesis 2:1.

Also, we should recall what we read in a prior chapter without God having to re-state what He wrote earlier when we read a subsequent chapter.





OK! So you don't believe Job, when Job said he didn't know how to be just with God.
I believe Job was disagreeing with Bildad.

The best way to read the book of Job is to read what Job said ...
then what Eliphaz said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Eliphaz ...
then what Bildad said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Bildad ...
then what Zophar said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Zophar ...
then what Eliphaz said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Eliphaz ...
then what Bildad said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Bildad ...
then what Zophar said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Zophar ...
then what Eliphaz said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Eliphaz ...
then what Bildad said in response to Job ...
then what Job said in response to Bildad ...
then what Elihu said in response to Job ...
then what God said in response to Job's prayer that He would answer him. God completely vindicated Job and rebuked Job's friends for falsely accusing Job.


and you've got to keep the conversations straight ... who said what and what was the response to what was said.

The book of Job is a discussion between 5 men ... one of whom was in mourning over the loss of his children and who was in physical pain, suffering from boils over his whole body ... and 4 of them falsely accusing the sufferer of some sort of nefarious act for which he was being punished by God (which was completely false and you continue to believe the falsehood).





Just how much of the book of Job have you rewritten to fit your narrative?
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you really need to stop with these nonsensical comments. You continuously make claims when you do not agree with what someone tells you concerning the Book of Job. You do not rebut any specific claim ... instead you accuse others of rewriting Scripture to fit a narrative.

This type of response is not conducive to meaningful dialog and it does nothing to promote edification of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ.

People are taking time to go through Scripture with you and you slap them in the face with your "rewriting to fit your narrative" comments.





Bildad knew that neither Satan, nor anyone, can do more than God allows. Job agreed with what Bildad stated in chapter eight.
While there is some truth in Bildad's response in Job 8, Bildad's premise was faulty.

Bildad believed Job's children were killed because of sin on their part (Job 8:4) ... and you and I both know satan was behind that fiasco.

Bildad used examples from nature and applied them to what Job was going through (Job 8:11-12) and then implied that Job was no longer following God's ways So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish (Job 8:13).

Bildad was correct in a general sense ... however, Bildad was not correct in his belief the Job was a hypocrite.


praying that God will open your eyes to what is written in this Book.





You are rewriting this book to fit your own narrative. It is like you have blinders on. Everyone is wrong when they say something that is negative in regard to Job, and that even includes Job.
I am reading the book exactly as written. I have freely admitted that all 5 (Job included) of them spoke some truth and all 5 (Job included) of them spoke some error.




So let me ask you two questions about two of God's statements.

God said Job was without knowledge. What did God mean when he said Job was without knowledge?
Job spoke of things in which his knowledge barely scratched the surface.

That's why God asked Job

Job 38:4-7

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?





God said Job had reproved him. What did God mean when he said Job reproved God?

In desperation, Job stated:

Job 23:3-7

3 Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat!

4 I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

5 I would know the words which he would answer me, and understand what he would say unto me.

6 Will he plead against me with his great power? No; but he would put strength in me.

7 There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge.



And when God finally spoke to him, Job did not argue or plead or dispute with God. Instead, the response of Job was:

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Job finally received from God what he had prayed for, he received God's Word, and was mightily blessed.

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The Book of Job as Gospel Typology​


Job as a Type of Christ​


Job opens by offering burnt offerings as propitiation for his children's sins. This establishes him as a priestly figure who voluntarily offers himself on behalf of others. God accepts this offering, and Satan is dispatched — not as an autonomous adversary but as an unwitting instrument of divine administration, unknowingly executing the very redemptive purpose he thinks he is subverting. This mirrors Acts 2:23 — Christ delivered up by the predetermined plan of God through the hands of wicked men.


The Children's Deaths​


The first ten children die in their sins, before the propitiating sacrifice is applied. This depicts the condition of humanity prior to the Cross — under the full weight of sin's consequences with no covering yet in place.


Job's Suffering​


The stripping away of everything — wealth, children, health, reputation — maps onto the kenosis and humiliation of the Incarnation culminating at the Cross. The suffering is not punishment, not arbitrary, and not evidence of God's absence. God is in the midst of it, speaking through it, executing a redemptive purpose that Job cannot yet see.


The Three Friends as False Theology​


They represent the law's accusation — suffering equals guilt. Their theology condemns rather than redeems. Job must ultimately intercede for them, just as Christ intercedes for those whose religion produced accusation rather than salvation.


Elihu as Prophetic Voice of the Trinity​


Elihu speaks on behalf of the triune God and his speech operates on three levels simultaneously:


  • Historical — addressing Job directly in his suffering
  • Christological — pointing to Christ as the mediator and ransom from the pit
  • Ecclesiological — describing the minister's calling under suffering

His key contributions are:


  • God cannot do wickedness — the suffering is not arbitrary
  • God speaks through suffering and dreams to draw men back from the pit
  • A mediator exists who can ransom a man and restore him to health and righteousness
  • The proper response to suffering is humility, not accusation
  • God is not an absentee judge — He is present in the suffering
  • Job's error is speaking without knowledge, which is rebellion requiring repentance

Job's Fundamental Error​


Job asks what profit is my righteousness — a transactional view that treats righteousness as a currency God owes a return on. The correct question is what profit is my life if I have the life of God in me — because the man who carries the life of God has the voice and arm of God to speak life to the perishing and pull them from the fire (Jude 23, Job 40:9).


The 2 Corinthians 1 Principle Embedded in Job​


God speaks through suffering to draw the minister toward Him. The minister goes to God on his knees, receives comfort and understanding, and that received comfort becomes the content of a ministry to others in similar suffering. Job's suffering, properly received, was always intended to produce a Job-shaped ministry. The book ends with Job interceding for his accusers — precisely this ministry being enacted.


The Restored Children as Redeemed Believers​


The second set of children are given in equal number, not doubled like the rest of Job's restoration — suggesting they are not mere replacements but something qualitatively different. The daughters are named, described as most beautiful in the land, and given inheritance alongside their brothers — an almost unprecedented act in the patriarchal narrative. This depicts redeemed believers transformed by propitiation, given full inheritance rights as co-heirs (Romans 8:17, Galatians 3:28-29).


The Overall Arc​


The book moves from sin uncovered → voluntary propitiation → suffering that speaks → the mediator's ransom → restoration and full inheritance. This is the gospel hidden in Israel's wisdom literature, with Job as the type, Elihu as the prophetic herald, and the restored household as the redeemed church.

I like your outline although I don't agree with most of it.

What I like best is your outline of Elihu as a spiritual man exhibiting truth. What I like least is your presentation of Job as a type of Christ.

Job is more a type of Edom. Job's name means hated. God said Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated. What could be more biblical typical of good and evil than the two twin brothers,

Esau received a blessing that is repeated in the book of Job.

Gen 27:39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

Job 29:19 My root was spread out by the waters, and the dew lay all night upon my branch.

The first verse in the book of Job tells us where Job is from, and it is the land of Uz. The bible also tells us where Edom is from, and it is the land of Uz. What is even more amazing is when we read the book of Lamentations, in the third chapter we find eighteen consecutive verses of the lamentation of Jacob that runs parallel with the lamentation of Job. And then we are told that the daughter of Edom is going to receive the same cup of woe that Jacob received.

Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

Lam 4:22 The punishment of thine iniquity is accomplished, O daughter of Zion; he will no more carry thee away into captivity: he will visit thine iniquity, O daughter of Edom; he will discover thy sins.

Job is more a type of Esau that a type of Christ. Job exalted himself above God and Jesus is God.

The spirit said, Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Elihu said, Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
God said, Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?