Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

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LTL said:
I have an idea of what the third heaven is, but I do not know exactly. Nevertheless, heaven would be a reward after mortality. So, some may go to heaven in a third category, after resurrection, as heavenly rewards go. Or to the first or second, etc.

Nevertheless, the rapture does not end in a reward, but protection, as the earth is being burned and renewed. That is, if heaven is a metaphor for the earth, then the reward is the earth for those resurrected from the dead. And the earth is the location for those raptured from mortality so that they can continue to live in mortality in the 1,000 years.
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I suggest you may want to learn about the 2nd exodus, it will alter your understanding

Isaiah 11

11 And it shall come to pass ----- “in that day”, [that] --- the Lord shall set his hand again ---- the second time ---to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Jeremiah 16: 14 - 15

14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, ----that it shall - --- no more be said, ---The LORD liveth, ---- --- that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

15 But, -- The LORD liveth, -------that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither He had driven them: --------and I will bring them ---“again”--- into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Jeremiah 23: 7, 8

7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

8 But, --- The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led ---the seed --- of the house of Israel ---out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
 
memberofthebride said:
I suggest you may want to learn about the 2nd exodus, it will alter your understanding

Isaiah 11

11 And it shall come to pass ----- “in that day”, [that] --- the Lord shall set his hand again ---- the second time ---to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Jeremiah 16: 14 - 15

14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, ----that it shall - --- no more be said, ---The LORD liveth, ---- --- that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

15 But, -- The LORD liveth, -------that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither He had driven them: --------and I will bring them ---“again”--- into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Jeremiah 23: 7, 8

7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

8 But, --- The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led ---the seed --- of the house of Israel ---out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
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That is funny.

Isaiah 11:11 is about the gathering of the repentant during the 3.5-year judgment, before the end of the 7-years. And has nothing to do with the rapture from the earth or the resurrection.

Jeremiah 16:14-15, as well as 23:7-8, are about the time after the 7-years of tribulation. After the rapture from the earth and the return of saints to the earth, and during the time of the first resurrection that occurs during the 1,000 years.

My understanding of scripture is secure, thank you.
The order of things is:
1) Fall of Babylon by the beast and false prophet, the tribulation begins
2) Exodus of the 144,000
3) Coronation of the Davidic King
4) Temple construction in Jerusalem
5) Jews rejecting the Davidic King
6) Abomination of Desolation
7) Harvest of saints
8) Destruction of the beast and his false prophet, the 3.5-year tribulation is over
9) The 144,000 wait to gather the repentant from throughout the earth
10) The millennial reign of the Savior begins. The resurrection begins about this time
11) The 144,000 gather the repentant from throughout the earth
12) Rapture of the 144,000 and the saints of God from the earth
13) The Earth is burned, and Satan is bound
14) The 144,000 and the saints of God return to the earth
15) The resurrection continues throughout the 1,000 years
16) Satan is released, and war is waged, ending mortal man
17) The second resurrection of the spiritually dead. Some of these die the second physical death

So, in all of this that I have written, the third heaven is not mentioned. Because it pertains to rewards and not last-day events. However, I can explain some of what the third heaven is about if you can show the verse to which you refer.
 
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tttallison said:
Who are the resurrected after the millennium?
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The first resurrection extends throughout the thousand years. Then at the end of the thousand years is the second resurrection in mass. Of the second resurrection, many will die the second physical death because they continue to reject Jesus Christ. That is, no one can sustain a resurrected body, only Jesus Christ. Thus, anyone rejecting Jesus Christ looses their resurrected body.

The pattern is:
1) resurrection
2) rejection of Jesus Christ (every knee must bow)
3) resurrected body dies
In the end, anyone rejecting Jesus Christ can only exist in spirit, to be Lucifer's whipping boy.

On the other hand, the individuals of the spiritually dead who accept Jesus Christ have this pattern:
1) resurrection
2) acceptance of Jesus Christ
3) resurrected body lives, because Jesus Christ sustains the resurrected body
For these spiritually dead, they live in a resurrected body but can not live with Christ because they are laden with sin.
 
LTL said:
That is funny.

Isaiah 11:11 is about the gathering of the repentant during the 3.5-year judgment, before the end of the 7-years. And has nothing to do with the rapture from the earth or the resurrection.

Jeremiah 16:14-15, as well as 23:7-8, are about the time after the 7-years of tribulation. After the rapture from the earth and the return of saints to the earth, and during the time of the first resurrection that occurs during the 1,000 years.

My understanding of scripture is secure, thank you.
The order of things is:
1) Fall of Babylon by the beast and false prophet, the tribulation begins
2) Exodus of the 144,000
3) Coronation of the Davidic King
4) Temple construction in Jerusalem
5) Jews rejecting the Davidic King
6) Abomination of Desolation
7) Harvest of saints
8) Destruction of the beast and his false prophet, the 3.5-year tribulation is over
9) The 144,000 wait to gather the repentant from throughout the earth
10) The millennial reign of the Savior begins. The resurrection begins about this time
11) The 144,000 gather the repentant from throughout the earth
12) Rapture of the 144,000 and the saints of God from the earth
13) The Earth is burned, and Satan is bound
14) The 144,000 and the saints of God return to the earth
15) The resurrection continues throughout the 1,000 years
16) Satan is released, and war is waged, ending mortal man
17) The second resurrection of the spiritually dead. Some of these die the second physical death

So, in all of this that I have written, the third heaven is not mentioned. Because it pertains to rewards and not last-day events. However, I can explain some of what the third heaven is about if you can show the verse to which you refer.
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there is not one thing you have written that can be found in the Word of God.
please do not respond -- no interest.
by by
 
memberofthebride said:
there is not one thing you have written that can be found in the Word of God.
please do not respond -- no interest.
by by
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MOTB, you are limiting yourself by rejecting a deeper understanding of the truth.

1) The fall of Babylon by the beast and his false prophet is in Rev. 17.
This is one thing that can be found, and you state that "not one thing" that I have written can be found. The beast is in Rev. 17:3, and the false prophet (Rev. 13:11) is "Blasphemy" in Rev. 13:1.

Come on, MOTB, let's consider scripture together.
Read the metaphorical language with me.
River means army, mountain means kingdom, dead as in spiritually dead means no salvation in Christ.
Word of God not only refers to the Holy Scriptures, but also to Jesus Christ.
Serpent means not only Lucifer, but also Jesus, depending on the context of the verse; ie. the brass serpent represents Jesus Christ.
Also, the fiery flying serpents are the 144,000.
And the list goes on.

So move away from the rigid doctrinal prison and learn the greater light of Jesus Christ.
 
LTL said:
MOTB, you are limiting yourself by rejecting a deeper understanding of the truth.

1) The fall of Babylon by the beast and his false prophet is in Rev. 17.
This is one thing that can be found, and you state that "not one thing" that I have written can be found. The beast is in Rev. 17:3, and the false prophet (Rev. 13:11) is "Blasphemy" in Rev. 13:1.

Come on, MOTB, let's consider scripture together.
Read the metaphorical language with me.
River means army, mountain means kingdom, dead as in spiritually dead means no salvation in Christ.
Word of God not only refers to the Holy Scriptures, but also to Jesus Christ.
Serpent means not only Lucifer, but also Jesus, depending on the context of the verse; ie. the brass serpent represents Jesus Christ.
Also, the fiery flying serpents are the 144,000.
And the list goes on.

So move away from the rigid doctrinal prison and learn the greater light of Jesus Christ.
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"Also, the fiery flying serpents are the 144,000." Where do you get this from???
 
BetterCallPsalms said:
"Also, the fiery flying serpents are the 144,000." Where do you get this from???
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Isaiah 30:6, KJV
"The burden (distress)
of the beasts (government leaders)
of the south: (the U. S.)

into the land of trouble and anguish, (Israel)
from whence come (from where comes)
the young and old lion, (the followers of Jesus Christ who are the 144,000, and the Davidic King, Rev. 14:1)
the viper and fiery flying serpent, (the Davidic King and the followers of Jesus Christ, the 144,000, Rev. 14:1)

they will carry their riches (the U. S. will carry its wealth)
upon the shoulders of young asses, (via their young men)
and their treasures (the U. S. will carry its wealth)
upon the bunches of camels, (via their young men)
to a people (the enemy causing the burden)
that shall not profit them. (that will not listen)"

The verse structure is:
1) the distress of the U.S. government leaders
2) the Savior's government leader in the Davidic King with his followers, the 144,000
3) the rejection of the U.S. government followers.

This attempted payoff is not far in the future. Someone is going to be kidnapped by Russia, and the U.S. government will try to purchase them.
 
LTL said:
First, defend how I go against the bible.
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1) most everything you said about Rev 14 is incorrect.
2) Most postribbers are very uncomfortable with the wording of that chapter, and, so far, I have yet to see that doctrine admit who the 144,000 are, and, most OMIT that they are firstfruit Jews.
3) by omitting who and what they are , they use that FOUNDARION, to unpack Rev 14.

They go 100% against tge bible.
100%
 
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LTL said:
I have an idea of what the third heaven is, but I do not know exactly. Nevertheless, heaven would be a reward after mortality. So, some may go to heaven in a third category, after resurrection, as heavenly rewards go. Or to the first or second, etc.

Nevertheless, the rapture does not end in a reward, but protection, as the earth is being burned and renewed. That is, if heaven is a metaphor for the earth, then the reward is the earth for those resurrected from the dead. And the earth is the location for those raptured from mortality so that they can continue to live in mortality in the 1,000 years.
Click to expand...
The rapture reward is the bride gathered to the groom.
Only the worthy ones are in the main rapture pretrib.

( another dynamic completely missing in the postrib rapture doctrine)
 
Psalm1 said:
2) Most postribbers are very uncomfortable with the wording of that chapter, and, so far, I have yet to see that doctrine admit who the 144,000 are, and, most OMIT that they are firstfruit Jews.
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The 144,000 are the overcomers mentioned in Revelation 2:27 who are chosen by God to be firsfruit of the dominion of the kingdom as well as firstfruit of the first resurrection. There have been many overcomers throughout history, but that group will have a special purpose to accomplish before the king arrives. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it, as it has nothing to do with anything in the kingdom of God.
 
Psalm1 said:
1) most everything you said about Rev 14 is incorrect.
2) Most postribbers are very uncomfortable with the wording of that chapter, and, so far, I have yet to see that doctrine admit who the 144,000 are, and, most OMIT that they are firstfruit Jews.
3) by omitting who and what they are , they use that FOUNDARION, to unpack Rev 14.

They go 100% against tge bible.
100%
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P1,
What is FOUNDARION?
That is funny.

And what did I say about Rev. 14 that is incorrect?
Rev. 13 is continued in Rev. 14. These two Chapters cover the tribulation proper in the third storyline, which is Ch. 12-16.

Similar to Chapter Six, introducing the seals storyline, Chapter 12 introduces the mark of the beast storyline. Afterward comes the main focus of the storyline, which for the seals storyline is Chapter Seven, and for the mark of the beast storyline is Chapters Thirteen and Fourteen.

Chapter Thirteen shows the beast and false prophet who take over the world. And Chapter Fourteen shows the Savior's response.
Thus, the Savior stands with his army in Rev. 14:1. This is more clearly stated in the fall of Babylon storyline (Rev. 17-21) where the Savior's army defeats the beast's army (Rev. 19:11-21).

Thus, the 144,000 standing with Jesus Christ in Rev. 14:1 is his army. It is not that difficult to see.
 
Psalm1 said:
The rapture reward is the bride gathered to the groom.
Only the worthy ones are in the main rapture pretrib.

( another dynamic completely missing in the postrib rapture doctrine)
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That is a crazy and false doctrine.

The fall of Babylon storyline (Rev. 17-21) shows
1) that Babylon falls (Rev. 17-18),
2) and then the bride is gathered to the groom (Rev. 19:1-10)
3) which is followed by the winepress (Rev. 19:11-21), ending the beast and his false prophet
4) followed by the midpoint (see Rev. 15:2 from the mark of the beast storyline).

That is, the above items are in the 3.5-year tribulation.

There is only an exodus during this period, as shown in Rev. 12:5, and a harvest of saints (Rev. 12:14).

And the false doctrine about "worthy" ones is silly. The saints of God (Rev. 13:7) must wait until the harvest, and many will die as stated in Rev. 12:11.

There is no pre-trib rapture. Please get that straight in your mind. It is a trap set by Lucifer to erode the confidence of the saints.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The 144,000 are the overcomers mentioned in Revelation 2:27 who are chosen by God to be firsfruit of the dominion of the kingdom as well as firstfruit of the first resurrection. There have been many overcomers throughout history, but that group will have a special purpose to accomplish before the king arrives. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it, as it has nothing to do with anything in the kingdom of God.
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CRD, you are correct.

The 144,000 are servants of Jesus Christ and the "first fruits" in the millennial reign of the Savior. However, they are not resurrected but translated like Elijah.

Their purpose is to harvest the saints of God, not only in the 3.5-year tribulation but in the 3.5-year judgment as well.
 
LTL said:
Isaiah 30:6, KJV
"The burden (distress)
of the beasts (government leaders)
of the south: (the U. S.)

into the land of trouble and anguish, (Israel)
from whence come (from where comes)
the young and old lion, (the followers of Jesus Christ who are the 144,000, and the Davidic King, Rev. 14:1)
the viper and fiery flying serpent, (the Davidic King and the followers of Jesus Christ, the 144,000, Rev. 14:1)

they will carry their riches (the U. S. will carry its wealth)
upon the shoulders of young asses, (via their young men)
and their treasures (the U. S. will carry its wealth)
upon the bunches of camels, (via their young men)
to a people (the enemy causing the burden)
that shall not profit them. (that will not listen)"

The verse structure is:
1) the distress of the U.S. government leaders
2) the Savior's government leader in the Davidic King with his followers, the 144,000
3) the rejection of the U.S. government followers.

This attempted payoff is not far in the future. Someone is going to be kidnapped by Russia, and the U.S. government will try to purchase them.
Click to expand...
lol
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The 144,000 are the overcomers mentioned in Revelation 2:27 who are chosen by God to be firsfruit of the dominion of the kingdom as well as firstfruit of the first resurrection. There have been many overcomers throughout history, but that group will have a special purpose to accomplish before the king arrives. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it, as it has nothing to do with anything in the kingdom of God.
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Not even close.
They are firsfruit Jews.
That is what the Bible says.
THEIR ETHNICITY is vividly portrayed.
Frankly , Impossible to miss.

Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection.( So you are incorrect there also.)
The church following is MAIN HARVEST.
( again main harvest, is the church, which is FOLLOWING Jesus as firstfruits)

In no way are the 144,000 anything to do with the firstfruits of the first resurrection.
 
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