Is "touch starvation" a real thing?

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Lanolin said:
Stoicsm is a (Greek) philosphy, but Gnosticism was a branch of early Christianity that emphasised the spiritual over the material. I think it was also deemed a heresy by the official church back then. Then they split into Roman Catholicsm and Eastern Greek Orthodox I think. If you referring to Western Church, then you are referring to Roman Catholics right? That had the Bible in Latin, as opposed to Greek?
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I have no idea what you're talking about with this stretch. Stoicism is just a philosophy of resilience, it's not gnosticism with some secret knowledge, but response to adversities in life, the cultivation of an inner peace in the midst of raging storms and chaos around you; put that in biblical context, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." In essence it's not at odd with Christianity, what it lacks, as I've explained, is the incarnation of the divine logos. An abstract order of the universe is not relatable, a man of flesh and blood is relatable.
Lanolin said:
Lovette you have a menorah as your avatar. Are you messianic? Hebrew or Jewish people can be demonstrative, they are very much an expressive culture, I mean they had the psalmists and lot of music and entertainment come from Jewish culture.

Greek and Italian culture is also --people talk with their hands, they kiss on the cheek, they love good food, they live in the sunny mediterranean so enjoy life, its not an austere culture. Yes there are monks and nuns but they have a calling/vocation and they take vows of poverty/silence, dress in a uniform, hide away in convets/monasteries, are celibate etc. That is also part of traditional Christendom, like it or not.
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Yes, I am a messianic, because I believe the NT must be interpreted with the OT, not Greco-roman philosophy, Eastern mysticism or any secular sociological wisdom.
 
Lovette said:
Actually it's a matter of control, the older you get, the less control you have. In this case, oftentimes I intend to empathize with others and let some emotions effuse, my mind just somehow goes numd, no tears or laughter comes out even if I want some, it's like a defense mechanism that automatically walls off emotional displays from others as an assault.
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I have a resident feral cat that I've finally managed a "fist bump" from. I offer my fist and she bumps it with her forehead. She's old in feline years, and I'd never really took the time to 'engage' her until just recently. She's the only one left of three that I watched grow from kittens and stay together. I don't suppose she wasn't starving for my touch though, but it seemed to me that it should somehow help to communicate an interest in her safety.
 
Mem said:
I have a resident feral cat that I've finally managed a "fist bump" from. I offer my fist and she bumps it with her forehead. She's old in feline years, and I'd never really took the time to 'engage' her until just recently. She's the only one left of three that I watched grow from kittens and stay together. I don't suppose she wasn't starving for my touch though, but it seemed to me that it should somehow help to communicate an interest in her safety.
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It is reported that some wretched souls have a fear of touch, often due to childhood trauma or abuse, when getting touched, especially getting touched accidentally, suddenly or surprisingly, they'd feel unconfortable, they'd even flinch as if being shocked by electricity; yet even among such people, some still claim they have a touch starvation, which is really strange.
 
Lovette said:
It is reported that some wretched souls have a fear of touch, often due to childhood trauma or abuse, when getting touched, especially getting touched accidentally, suddenly or surprisingly, they'd feel unconfortable, they'd even flinch as if being shocked by electricity; yet even among such people, some still claim they have a touch starvation, which is really strange.
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It's the whole Harley thing....

Guys 30+-something love a tricked out Harley....
Harleys are insanely expensive motorcycles. Also extremely scary to ride because of how much you are vulnerable to road rash should something go wrong...and something is more likely to go wrong because people can't see you as well as they can a whole large SUV. And even then size doesn't matter and people have driven into freight trains.....as if they weren't there....

But the bikes are beautiful, sleek, and consistently reliable....guys want to ride them....they absolute crave/love them.

In the same way....touch is just like that for some people. Yes, startling and scary....but absolutely wonderful all at the same time and something deeply craved on a genetic level. (Like really good Mac and cheese). It fills this empty hole in your soul you didn't feel until you experienced it.....
 
Well there's abusive touch and then there's gentle touch so, if the 'wretched soul' never had both as a child they may not have the boundaries to recognise what they desire, also people are capable of giving both kinds, obviously we want the later. Nobody wants to be hit and bruised and battered, well nobody that I know.

Some people are cutters, meaning they do it deliberately so they can feel pain, rather than nothing. I do think it just something people need to feel like they exist, they have a body, are flesh and blood and not some kind of invisible ghost.
 
I took a course on it, what they taught was when if child acts out, they have fear, but they also need a firm hand to know they are secure.
This was in school that nowadays don't allow corporal punishment or teachers cannot actually touch children unless a child intiates it. There are rules about what kind of restraint we could use, as there are some children that want to hide, and some who are runners - meaning if they are triggered they will literally want to run away or escape the classroom/school.

I mean obviously no hitting/punching kicking others or invading their personal space, but sometimes hugs are fine, and if someone is really a danger, you do need to have a headlock or something, not pull them by the ear or smack their butts with a cane or strap or throw a duster at them as what used to happen

We have a phrase 'you can't handle the jandal'
Also parents gave 'hidings' meaning the child had done something so wrong or misbehaved that the parents got angry and the child would have to run and hide.
 
If a parent gets so angry they start throwing a jandal at their child or slapping them with it as punishment. A jandal is like a flip-flop made of rubber, so it's not going to hurt or break someone too much.

Iv'e never been slapped by one or had to use one, but my mum did swat me with a bamboo cane (when I was naughty/misbehaving) You just use whats at hand, and in my country, most people wear jandals.

Obvs nowadays, we don't want parents hitting or abusing their children so much they end up in hospital. But domestic violence is a thing. Mostly between men and women though.
 
JohnDB said:
It's the whole Harley thing....

Guys 30+-something love a tricked out Harley....
Harleys are insanely expensive motorcycles. Also extremely scary to ride because of how much you are vulnerable to road rash should something go wrong...and something is more likely to go wrong because people can't see you as well as they can a whole large SUV. And even then size doesn't matter and people have driven into freight trains.....as if they weren't there....

But the bikes are beautiful, sleek, and consistently reliable....guys want to ride them....they absolute crave/love them.

In the same way....touch is just like that for some people. Yes, startling and scary....but absolutely wonderful all at the same time and something deeply craved on a genetic level. (Like really good Mac and cheese). It fills this empty hole in your soul you didn't feel until you experienced it.....
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er ok but you don't want the town bicycle as they say everyone has ridden it.
 
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A lot of girls are mad about ponies/horses even though they are super expensive to look after, but riding them is a thrill. I've only ridden a horse a couple of times, thankfully, when mine started to gallop I held on and didn't fall off. There's horses and then there's wild horses that won't take a bridle or saddle though they run free.
Anyway they are wonderful beasts when they have freedom to run, but I just feel bad for them if they get abused like in a racecourse where they will just get shot when they can't run anymore.

Ever read the book Black Beauty?
 
Lanolin said:
Well there's abusive touch and then there's gentle touch so, if the 'wretched soul' never had both as a child they may not have the boundaries to recognise what they desire, also people are capable of giving both kinds, obviously we want the later. Nobody wants to be hit and bruised and battered, well nobody that I know.

Some people are cutters, meaning they do it deliberately so they can feel pain, rather than nothing. I do think it just something people need to feel like they exist, they have a body, are flesh and blood and not some kind of invisible ghost.
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If this is about existence, you have to determine which one is your motto, which one is your raison d'être - René Descartes's "I think, therefore I am," or Thomas Jefferson's "I FEEL, therefore I am?" The former is subjective, the latter is objective. You can think of anything outlandish in your own mind, but you must interact with other people and other things to feel.
 
Lanolin said:
If a parent gets so angry they start throwing a jandal at their child or slapping them with it as punishment. A jandal is like a flip-flop made of rubber, so it's not going to hurt or break someone too much.

Iv'e never been slapped by one or had to use one, but my mum did swat me with a bamboo cane (when I was naughty/misbehaving) You just use whats at hand, and in my country, most people wear jandals.

Obvs nowadays, we don't want parents hitting or abusing their children so much they end up in hospital. But domestic violence is a thing. Mostly between men and women though.
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My only solution is forgive and forget, for the Lord has died for my sins and my abusers, by His stripes I'm healed, so let bygones be bygones and walk in the newness of life.
 
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Doesn't stoicism come from Greek/Roman philosophy? But then you wrote that you are Messianic and the NT can't be interpreted via Greek/Roman philosophy but by the OT - so I am confused by your contradiction.

From AI - which gleans all such stuff from myriad of sources of knowledge from the world over -

Stoicism is an ancient Greek philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium around 300 BCE. It is a practical guide to self-mastery, resilience, and virtue, designed to help individuals manage their emotions and navigate life's challenges by focusing entirely on what is within their control. [1, 2, 3]

Also Divine LOGOS is a Greek term. It's not Hebrew. Paul was referring to the 'unknown God' in Greece when he was preaching.
So what are you on about with Stoicism? I thought everyone knew it came from the Greeks.

The Hebrews knew God, they were His chosen people. He spoke to them. Then He sent his only son Jesus as His incarnation, but many didn't believe. And the Greeks at the time didn't believe either, they didn't even know who God was! Thats why they were Stoic, because they didn't know God's grace!
 
***puzzled***

Also, it's while possible to forgive, but actually in practice it's very hard to FORGET.

Jesus also said that we take the Lords supper in remembrance of Him - and we can't always pick and choose our memories.

Walking in the 'newness of life' also takes time. Sometimes that newness does not come easily to people, especially when they are prevented from walking in the newness of life - if you actually care - and practice what you preach - YOU would go around giving hugs or shaking hands or kissing cheeks to those who ask no?
 
No idea what db is on about sorry

If men want to marry someone half their age so they have more of a chance to be taken care of in their old age, up to them but the younger wife may not stick to the deal. Or they could even die before the older husband. There is no guarantee.
 
Lanolin said:
Doesn't stoicism come from Greek/Roman philosophy? But then you wrote that you are Messianic and the NT can't be interpreted via Greek/Roman philosophy but by the OT - so I am confused by your contradiction.

From AI - which gleans all such stuff from myriad of sources of knowledge from the world over -

Stoicism is an ancient Greek philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium around 300 BCE. It is a practical guide to self-mastery, resilience, and virtue, designed to help individuals manage their emotions and navigate life's challenges by focusing entirely on what is within their control. [1, 2, 3]
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You're confused by your own false dichotomy. Do self-mastery, resilience, inner peace contradict godly character? "Be still and know that I'm God," "absent from the body is present with the Lord", "set your mind on things above, not on things of the earth," are these not biblical teachings?
Lanolin said:
Also Divine LOGOS is a Greek term. It's not Hebrew. Paul was referring to the 'unknown God' in Greece when he was preaching.
So what are you on about with Stoicism? I thought everyone knew it came from the Greeks.

The Hebrews knew God, they were His chosen people. He spoke to them. Then He sent his only son Jesus as His incarnation, but many didn't believe. And the Greeks at the time didn't believe either, they didn't even know who God was! Thats why they were Stoic, because they didn't know God's grace!
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Nonetheless, Divine LOGOS has become a biblical term when it's referred to in Jn. 1. The difference, as I've explained, is knowing it as the abstract order and knowing it as a real person.
 
Lanolin said:
***puzzled***

Also, it's while possible to forgive, but actually in practice it's very hard to FORGET.

Jesus also said that we take the Lords supper in remembrance of Him - and we can't always pick and choose our memories.

Walking in the 'newness of life' also takes time. Sometimes that newness does not come easily to people, especially when they are prevented from walking in the newness of life - if you actually care - and practice what you preach - YOU would go around giving hugs or shaking hands or kissing cheeks to those who ask no?
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What I preached is a dose of SKEPTICISM on the "touch starvation" theory, not complaint or validation of it, can't you even get that? Yes, it is very hard, but it is promised by the Lord himself that sorrow will give way to joy.

I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you. (Gen. 3:16)

A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you. (Jn. 16:21-22)
 
Lovette said:
You're confused by your own false dichotomy. Do self-mastery, resilience, inner peace contradict godly character? "Be still and know that I'm God," "absent from the body is present with the Lord", "set your mind on things above, not on things of the earth," are these not biblical teachings?

Nonetheless, Divine LOGOS has become a biblical term when it's referred to in Jn. 1. The difference, as I've explained, is knowing it as the abstract order and knowing it as a real person.
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When you mention false dichotomies in a topic like this, you have been WAY overthinking it. (Also "false dichotomy" is a very overused phrase. Think about updating your debate vocabulary.) You are throwing massive complication on a simple question. Also the initial simple question is very personal, and another person's answer is A: probably not yours and B: not your business to even ferret out, much less judge them for.

Also you don't know your audience very well. Lanolin might be confused by a few things but false dichotomies are not in the list.
 
Lynx said:
When you mention false dichotomies in a topic like this, you have been WAY overthinking it. (Also "false dichotomy" is a very overused phrase. Think about updating your debate vocabulary.) You are throwing massive complication on a simple question. Also the initial simple question is very personal, and another person's answer is A: probably not yours and B: not your business to even ferret out, much less judge them for.

Also you don't know your audience very well. Lanolin might be confused by a few things but false dichotomies are not in the list.
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The validity of "touch starvation" is not a simple question.
 
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