The book of Job

[reneweddaybyday]

You state that I agree that there was no sin on the part of Job before the dialogue started, but it is not a simple answer, and this is why I asked you for your definition of sin.

you are the one who said (bold/underline added by me):

tttallison said:​

God doesn't tell us when Job sinned, but God does tell us Job sinned. I would think it was right after the second test​

and now you are equivocating (again). There is no way to have meaningful discussion with you when you engage in this tactic.

Please let go of your notion that satan attacked Job because of sin on the part of Job. satan attacked Job because God said Job was "a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil" (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3). That's all. Sin on the part of Job doesn't even factor in as far as satan is concerned.

what sin had Eve or Adam committed prior to satan approaching Eve ?

what sin had the Lord Jesus Christ committed ?

If your definition of sin is disobedience to God my answer would be no, because Job was without knowledge, and his fear of God was taught by the precept of men, as Job had stated.

where did Job state "his fear of God was taught by the precept of men"?

You need to start providing chapter and verse for your claims.

If you believe breaking any of the ten commandments is sin, then my answer would have to be yes. Job sinned when his pride led him to exalt himself above God, and that didn't just start after the testing.

your understanding of Job's relationship with God is skewed.

I believe Job's lost state was the reason God unleashed Satan.

God didn't "unleash" satan ... God restrained satan both times satan went after Job ... and if God had not restrained him, satan would have killed Job.

You can't have a personal relationship with someone when you don't know who. or where they are, or how to be just with them. Job said he was without hope, and told God to go away.

you really need to start providing chapter/verse references. You don't have to quote the verse, just provide the cite.

Satan's reason for the attack was without cause in the first test, but not without cause in the second test.

what sin had Job committed before satan smote Job with sore boils (Job 2:7)? ... please provide chapter and verse for your claim.

You want to know what verse I rely on that God tells us Job sinned? Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's? There are many others.

God did not say that ... Elihu said that.

And what Elihu thought Job had said does not equal Job having said what Elihu claimed.

.

 

[ZNP]

This is all bunny holes in regards to Job. Job made an offering for his children because they sinned in their hearts, just like Job. And then his children died while partying. Job made a plea for his friends at the last chapter, and that was because Job had requested to God that someone might plead for him. My bible says that is when Job was accepted by God.

I get it, so tell which parts of Job are significant to understanding the book, and which parts are not significant and can be ignored?

 

[christophernyc]

You are changing the context when you say God said, Job's suffering has arisen "without cause." You are making "Job's suffering" as the main subject, while the Bible has "moved me" as the main subject.

The reason for God's movement is Satan's cause. Satan's cause was that Job would (English translation-curse/Hebrew-bless not) you to your face. That was Satan's cause, because Satan set the parameters. The bible does not tell us what God's cause was for allowing the test, but that doesn't mean that God didn't have a reason for allowing it. There is always a reason.

The text plainly states that Job is not suffering because of some sin that he had committed. I don't think it could be more clear. It should also not require any debate that Job is suffering unjustly and for NO fault of his own.

How can anyone insist otherwise when God's testimony says the exact opposite?

As for motive , yes, it should be understood that both God and satan have their own motive for Job's suffering. But to indict Job for having committed a sin to incur his suffering, and to insist that Job's suffering is punitive on the part of God is completely unsubstantiated. That view is blatantly at odds with the word.

Satan's motive , however, seems clear. Satan is challenging God's connection with His creation and believes that if Job, God's servant, a man in relationship with God, were to suffer unjustly, for no reason, without cause, and for no fault of his own, then Job would curse God to His face. It seems THIS is the motive of satan: to see God's own creation curse Him, deny Him, and utterly reject Him. And, actually, by God allowing Job to suffer without cause is giving JOB a cause to do this very thing.

God's motive then seems to be to prove satan wrong. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Satan also does not understand that God's bond, His connection, His relationship with His creation goes way beyond being transactional. God is not simply "in contract" with His creation, as if it's some business He's running. No, God has a covenant with His creation. A covenant is much more than a contract, and while God's connection with man is founded on laws and principles, it is also founded on relationship.

Relationship.

Throughout Job's struggle from chapters 4 - 31, while Job argues with his friends, what Job consistently addresses in his cries is his relationship with God. Job has lost this connection with God, which he once was able to cherish, but now, through no fault of his own, that connection with God has been broken. He sadly does not understand why this separation has occurred, and Job deeply desires his relationship with God to be restored, even if that means it will be after his death. In the end, Job's prayer to meet with God is answered, and his relationship with God is restored.

In the end, satan is proven wrong because Job never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God.

In the end, God is proven right because Job endures his trial and never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God. In fact, Job does the opposite. Job acknowledges and announces what is happening to him, yes, but his unjust suffering never results in him turning his back on God. (This is why James commends Job for enduring his trial and remaining steadfast in his faith.)

Satan's reason for Job to suffer backfires on him.

God's reason for allowing Job's suffering proves that God is good, no matter what.

This was an encouragement to Job, and should be an encouragement to every human being who has ever lived.

 

[ZNP]

The text plainly states that Job is not suffering because of some sin that he had committed. I don't think it could be more clear. It should also not require any debate that Job is suffering unjustly and for NO fault of his own.

How can anyone insist otherwise when God's testimony says the exact opposite?

As for motive , yes, it should be understood that both God and satan have their own motive for Job's suffering. But to indict Job for having committed a sin to incur his suffering, and to insist that Job's suffering is punitive on the part of God is completely unsubstantiated. That view is blatantly at odds with the word.

Satan's motive , however, seems clear. Satan is challenging God's connection with His creation and believes that if Job, God's servant, a man in relationship with God, were to suffer unjustly, for no reason, without cause, and for no fault of his own, then Job would curse God to His face. It seems THIS is the motive of satan: to see God's own creation curse Him, deny Him, and utterly reject Him. And, actually, by God allowing Job to suffer without cause is giving JOB a cause to do this very thing.

God's motive then seems to be to prove satan wrong. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Satan also does not understand that God's bond, His connection, His relationship with His creation goes way beyond being transactional. God is not simply "in contract" with His creation, as if it's some business He's running. No, God has a covenant with His creation. A covenant is much more than a contract, and while God's connection with man is founded on laws and principles, it is also founded on relationship.

Relationship.

Throughout Job's struggle from chapters 4 - 31, while Job argues with his friends, what Job consistently addresses in his cries is his relationship with God. Job has lost this connection with God, which he once was able to cherish, but now, through no fault of his own, that connection with God has been broken. He sadly does not understand why this separation has occurred, and Job deeply desires his relationship with God to be restored, even if that means it will be after his death. In the end, Job's prayer to meet with God is answered, and his relationship with God is restored.

In the end, satan is proven wrong because Job never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God.

In the end, God is proven right because Job endures his trial and never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God. In fact, Job does the opposite. Job acknowledges and announces what is happening to him, yes, but his unjust suffering never results in him turning his back on God. (This is why James commends Job for enduring his trial and remaining steadfast in his faith.)

Satan's reason for Job to suffer backfires on him.

God's reason for allowing Job's suffering proves that God is good, no matter what.

This was an encouragement to Job, and should be an encouragement to every human being who has ever lived.

In fact in the entire Old Testament there are only two people who could be called the king of righteousness, Melchizedek and Job

 

[tttallison]

The text plainly states that Job is not suffering because of some sin that he had committed. I don't think it could be more clear. It should also not require any debate that Job is suffering unjustly and for NO fault of his own.

How can anyone insist otherwise when God's testimony says the exact opposite?

As for motive , yes, it should be understood that both God and satan have their own motive for Job's suffering. But to indict Job for having committed a sin to incur his suffering, and to insist that Job's suffering is punitive on the part of God is completely unsubstantiated. That view is blatantly at odds with the word.

Satan's motive , however, seems clear. Satan is challenging God's connection with His creation and believes that if Job, God's servant, a man in relationship with God, were to suffer unjustly, for no reason, without cause, and for no fault of his own, then Job would curse God to His face. It seems THIS is the motive of satan: to see God's own creation curse Him, deny Him, and utterly reject Him. And, actually, by God allowing Job to suffer without cause is giving JOB a cause to do this very thing.

God's motive then seems to be to prove satan wrong. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Satan also does not understand that God's bond, His connection, His relationship with His creation goes way beyond being transactional. God is not simply "in contract" with His creation, as if it's some business He's running. No, God has a covenant with His creation. A covenant is much more than a contract, and while God's connection with man is founded on laws and principles, it is also founded on relationship.

Relationship.

Throughout Job's struggle from chapters 4 - 31, while Job argues with his friends, what Job consistently addresses in his cries is his relationship with God. Job has lost this connection with God, which he once was able to cherish, but now, through no fault of his own, that connection with God has been broken. He sadly does not understand why this separation has occurred, and Job deeply desires his relationship with God to be restored, even if that means it will be after his death. In the end, Job's prayer to meet with God is answered, and his relationship with God is restored.

In the end, satan is proven wrong because Job never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God.

In the end, God is proven right because Job endures his trial and never curses, denies, renounces or rejects God. In fact, Job does the opposite. Job acknowledges and announces what is happening to him, yes, but his unjust suffering never results in him turning his back on God. (This is why James commends Job for enduring his trial and remaining steadfast in his faith.)

Satan's reason for Job to suffer backfires on him.

God's reason for allowing Job's suffering proves that God is good, no matter what.

This was an encouragement to Job, and should be an encouragement to every human being who has ever lived.

Do you realize that God did not have one good thing to say to Job after the second test. Everything God said to Job had a negative connotation. There was no well done my good and faithful servant. Consider what God actually said to Job.

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Job 40:10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

Job 40:11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

Job 40:12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

Job 40:13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Do you notice how all of this plays out. Job was contending, instructing, and reproving God. And then God said will you condemn me so that you might be righteous? And then God asks Job if he has an arm like God. And then God asks Job if he can array himself with glory and beauty. And then God tells Job to bring low those that are full of pride. (It is evident that God is speaking of Job being full of pride.) Job's pride was evident when he reproved God so that he might be righteous. Then God says if you can do the things that I can do, then I (God) will confess that your own right hand can save you. Job had been exalting himself above God.

It wasn't until after Job abhorred himself for being proud and repented in dust and ashes that God stated to Eliphaz and his friends that they needed to do the same thing that Job had just done, and that was to set their own righteousness aside and put on God's righteousness, the ransom for their sins.

Rom 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Job is not Jacob, but I believe he represents the other son of Israel, Edom.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you notice how all of this plays out. Job was contending, instructing, and reproving God.

Job was "contending, instructing, and reproving" Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar not God ... and he might have contended with, instructed, and reproved Eliphaz, but God finally answered the prayer of Job.

And then God said will you condemn me so that you might be righteous? And then God asks Job if he has an arm like God. And then God asks Job if he can array himself with glory and beauty. And then God tells Job to bring low those that are full of pride. (It is evident that God is speaking of Job being full of pride.) Job's pride was evident when he reproved God so that he might be righteous. Then God says if you can do the things that I can do, then I (God) will confess that your own right hand can save you. Job had been exalting himself above God.

Your understanding of these verses is not accurate. I went through these verses with you back in Post 291

Job 40:8-14​

​

8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?​

9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.​

​

The point behind these verses is -​

​

vs 8 – if Job could disannul the judgment of God ... or condemn God ...​

​

vs 9 – if Job had an arm like God ... or if Job could thunder with a voice like God ...​

​

vs 10 – if Job could deck himself with majesty and excellency and array himself with glory and beauty as God is in His majesty, excellence, glory and beauty ...​

​

vs 11 – if Job could abase with a glance every one that is proud ...​

​

vs 12 – if Job could bring low the proud and tread down the wicked ...​

​

vs 13 – if Job could hide them in the dust never to arise ...​

​

vs 14 – if Job could do the things described in the above verses, then God would confess that Job could save himself.​

​

What God revealed to Job here (as well as what is stated from chapter 38 to 41) is that that God's ways are so far above man's ways, and it is God alone Who is the Creator of all, Who knows the ways of all creation, Who is more powerful than the most powerful creature.​

​

Both God and Job knew Job could do none of those things. Both God and Job knew Job could not save himself. Job relied upon the same Redeemer you and I rely upon.​

It wasn't until after Job abhorred himself for being proud and repented in dust and ashes that God stated to Eliphaz and his friends that they needed to do the same thing that Job had just done, and that was to set their own righteousness aside and put on God's righteousness, the ransom for their sins.

Job did not "abhor himself for being proud". Job specifically stated that he had "uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not" ...

Job 42:1-3

1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.


and the reason Job stated he abhorred himself and repented in dust and ashes was because he knew God in a more magnificent and intimate way after God revealed Himself to Job.

Job had a great relationship with God prior to Job 1 ... Job "heard" God ... do you "hear" God when He speaks to you? Job did not have the fullness of Scripture we enjoy in our day and time. Job lived before anything was ever revealed to Moses.

After God revealed Himself more fully to Job, Job was able to state "now mine eye seeth thee".

Job was closer to God and we will find that the closer we get to God, the more we understand just how Holy, Glorious, Magnificent, and worthy of all praise He is, and the more we understand just how far below God we are in our fallen state:

Job 40:4-6

4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.


Thank God for His grace and mercy toward us ...

Lamentations 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

Rom 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Job is not Jacob, but I believe he represents the other son of Israel, Edom.

so sad you do not see that Job was a believer just like you are ... that Job endured much suffering at the hand of satan just as you do ... that Job said things about God which he did not fully understand and which were too wonderful for him just as you do.

.

 

[tttallison]

so sad you do not see that Job was a believer just like you are ... that Job endured much suffering at the hand of satan just as you do ... that Job said things about God which he did not fully understand and which were too wonderful for him just as you do.

.

How can you have yourself locked in a box that you can't see out of?

Job is talking about the good things he said, and not the things like, "He will laugh at the trial of the innocent." Job recognized that he was vile and abhorred himself for it, why can't you? Job was blameless until sin was found in him. Eze 28:15 Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee. That is the story of Job until he confessed and repented in dust and ashes.

 

[GWH]

LIFELONG FAITHFULNESS.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Job is talking about the good things he said, and not the things like, "He will laugh at the trial of the innocent."

Why do you believe Job was not including this statement when he said he had "uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not" (Job 42:3)?

Job recognized that he was vile and abhorred himself for it, why can't you?

I believe Job was a believer just like me ... just like you.

I explained why Job made the statement. That you disagree does not mean I do not recognize why Job said what he said. When you fully understand just how Holy, Glorious, Magnificent, and worthy of all praise God is, and you fully understand just how far below God we are in our fallen state, you just might have the same opinion about yourself that Job had about himself.

Job was blameless until sin was found in him. Eze 28:15 Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee. That is the story of Job until he confessed and repented in dust and ashes.

You attribute to Job what God says about satan:

Ezekiel 28:14-15

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Was Job the anointed cherub?


Here is what God instructed Ezekiel to write concerning Job ... God holds Job in higher esteem than you apparently do:

Ezekiel 14:12-14

12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

... repeated in verse 20:

Ezekiel 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.


The person who said:

"How can you have yourself locked in a box that you can't see out of?"​

needs to take a look in the mirror.

.

 

[tttallison]

Ezekiel 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
.

What does this verse mean to you? Does it mean if we are good enough we will deliver our own souls?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

Ezekiel 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.​

What does this verse mean to you?

Noah, Daniel, and Job were men of faith. That Job is included with Noah and Daniel should give you a clue as to the opinion of God concerning Job.

Hebrews 11 speaks of Noah:

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


While Hebrews 11 does not mention Daniel specifically, there is a verse which speaks to what he went through:

Hebrews 11:32-33 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions


That Job is not specifically mentioned is neither here nor there as Job was not a Hebrew and the epistle was written to the Hebrews.

Does it mean if we are good enough we will deliver our own souls?

you know as well as I do that salvation is wholly by grace through faith.

Job was a man of faith ... he believed in his Redeemer (Job 19:25). That you cannot see Job as a man of faith prior to Job 1 is somewhat baffling as the very first verse in the Book tells you Job was "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" ... and this truth is repeated two more times. How many times does God have to tell you something before you will believe Him?

.

 

[tttallison]

reneweddaybyday said:

Ezekiel 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.​

Noah, Daniel, and Job were men of faith. That Job is included with Noah and Daniel should give you a clue as to the opinion of God concerning Job.

Hebrews 11 speaks of Noah:

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


While Hebrews 11 does not mention Daniel specifically, there is a verse which speaks to what he went through:

Hebrews 11:32-33 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions


That Job is not specifically mentioned is neither here nor there as Job was not a Hebrew and the epistle was written to the Hebrews.





you know as well as I do that salvation is wholly by grace through faith.

Job was a man of faith ... he believed in his Redeemer (Job 19:25). That you cannot see Job as a man of faith prior to Job 1 is somewhat baffling as the very first verse in the Book tells you Job was "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" ... and this truth is repeated two more times. How many times does God have to tell you something before you will believe Him?

.

You keep saying Job was a man of faith, but clearly that faith was not in God's goodness or righteousness. Job believed that he would be saved because he deserved to be.

God said, Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous? This was the same theme as Elihu offered in Job 35:2 Think thou this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?
You refuse to accept what Elihu said about Job even though what Elihu said paralleled what God said.

Elihu and God​

Compare these verses carefully.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35
Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16

Notice how the Lord repeated what Elihu had said.

The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compare these two verses carefully.

Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5

Notice how the Lord repeated what Elihu had said.

The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3
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Compare these verses of Elihu’s speech, which were spoken before the Lord spoke.

Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16

The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34
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Compare this verse of Elihu’s with a verse from the Lord.

Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17

The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2
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Compare the two verses from Elihu, which were spoken before the Lord spoke.

Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2

Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2

The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8
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In every case Elihu said it first and the Lord repeated. ​

 

[ZNP]

The book of Job describes the narrow way that leads to life, and it is so clear that few have found that way because of all the problems people have with this book. The three friends who get rebuked by God, they are like the many who are on the broad way that leads to destruction. They want to condemn Job and they are desperate to find some fault with Job.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You keep saying Job was a man of faith, but clearly that faith was not in God's goodness or righteousness. Job believed that he would be saved because he deserved to be.

are you a believer, tttallison?

.

 

[tttallison]

are you a believer, tttallison?

.

There is no content to your question.

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

 

[ZNP]

There is no content to your question.

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

I think he was asking are you a believer in Jesus Christ, the incarnated savior, who lived a human life, was crucified for your sins, redeemed you by His blood, was dead, and then rose from the grave and ascended to heaven where He sits at the right hand of God, unless of course He is leaving heaven to gather His bride or to step down on the Mount of Olives to rescue the remnant of Israel.

 

[tttallison]

The book of Job describes the narrow way that leads to life, and it is so clear that few have found that way because of all the problems people have with this book. The three friends who get rebuked by God, they are like the many who are on the broad way that leads to destruction. They want to condemn Job and they are desperate to find some fault with Job.

The way is narrow and few there be that find it because of sin. God asked Job if he was going to make a covenant with the king over all the children of pride, and take him for a servant forever. Why did God ask that of Job?

Let me ask you a question; Did the three friends get saved in the end?

 

[ZNP]

The way is narrow and few there be that find it because of sin. God asked Job if he was going to make a covenant with the king over all the children of pride, and take him for a servant forever. Why did God ask that of Job?

Let me ask you a question; Did the three friends get saved in the end?

Answer my question and then I'll be happy to consider your question.

Also since the three friends of Job predate the New testament, you must define what you mean by "saved".

 

[Mem]

I think that God engaged Satan by directing his attention to him can established as a given. And that God knew what He was doing likewise. God knew Satan, and God knew Job is also a given rather than any assumption.

God drew the attention of the accuser toward an upright man, and Satan predicted the outcome. Why did God parse out the trial by setting parameters around Job in the first place? Why didn't he allow Satan full access to Job from the start? There is good reason in all God does because He is both good and also the originator and sustainer of sound logic. Nothing He does can be categorized as trivial.

Keeping in mind that Jesus himself suggested that the scribes and Pharisees are regarded at least of some degree of righteous in asserting that your righteousness must exceed theirs to enter into the kingdom of heaven. By Job's ordeal, God delineated where Job's righteousness stood fast and where it came up short, at the point that things, literally, got personal.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

are you a believer, tttallison?​

There is no content to your question.

Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

It's not a trick question ...

So, again I ask ... are you a believer ... are you born again? ... do you believe God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead? is the Lord Jesus Christ lord in your life?

.