Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[rogerg]

Now, nowhere do we read that God made Esau do what he did. God's Foreknowledge knew what Esau would do and God hated Esau for the fact he would throw the most special Covenant connected to God away like it was trash.

Wrong. Here is where:

[Rom 9:10-16 KJV]
10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[Magenta]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[HeIsHere]

Good question,

When Paul says God “will finish the good work He began” (Phil 1:6), the good work is God’s sovereign act of bringing a person from spiritual death into union with Christ and then carrying that new life all the way to final glory.

And this is based on what exactly?

 

[rogerg]

Read the story. Esau was simply not chosen to be the man from whom Israel comes from, the firstborn right went to Jacob instead.

Wrong. You didn't read the story far enough.

[Rom 9:24-26, 30 KJV]
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. ...
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

 

[Hakawaka]

Wrong. You didn't read the story far enough.

[Rom 9:24-26, 30 KJV]
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. ...
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

I was talking about Esau and Jacob and their story in Genesis.

Yes, Calvinist seems mostly to be a label simply used by those who love to misrepresent
the Biblical beliefs of others, while they contradict and deny what is explicitly articulated
of the natural man who is opposed to the spiritual things of God, captive to the will of the
devil (which they call being free), refusing to come into the Light because they are incapable
of receiving or understanding the things of God, hearing the gospel message as foolishness,
and serve the law of sin and death. Some think nothing of rewriting the very words of Jesus
Christ Himself, and blaspheming God rather than admit to the fact they are wrong.

The calvinist label is put on people because once you deny for example that Jesus died for everyone (the L in TULIP), you are presenting a Gospel that is vastly different than the Church has presented throughout the centuries. Labeling is sometimes good-

 

[RedLetterJoe]

I was talking about Esau and Jacob and their story in Genesis.

The calvinist label is put on people because once you deny for example that Jesus died for everyone (the L in TULIP), you are presenting a Gospel that is vastly different than the Church has presented throughout the centuries. Labeling is sometimes good-

Jesus did indeed die for the sins of the whole world. But only a chosen elect will place their faith in His death, reckon themselves dead in Christ, and live for Him. The degree of success in doing so is completely irrelevant.

Christ gives us His life. We in turn, give our lives to Him, however imperfectly.

The gift of faith to trust in His mercy and grace and the blood of His covenant is a gift given by measure to those whom He has called to be His children.

Their are no limits to the efficacy of Christ's shed blood. But there are limits to who will place their faith in His redemptive work.

God knows those that are His, and those that are His hear His voice and respond.
Its a great mystery, but to deny it because we can't fully understand it, would require us to reject the full counsel of Gods Holy Word.

 

[brightfame52]

Not if God meets the condition.

Well Christ is God and He met all the conditions to save His Sheep/Church, hence they are saved

 

[brightfame52]

And that was passage in Luke 15 is a 3 part parable. It's purpose is to show how the entire Godhead is involved in salvation

Agreed

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus did indeed die for the sins of the whole world. But only a chosen elect will place their faith in His death,

False witness

 

[RedLetterJoe]

False witness

False Accusation.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[rogerg]

I was talking about Esau and Jacob and their story in Genesis.

I know, but Romans 9 is a continuation and a completion of that which God used to illuminate a spiritual doctrine: the progressive revelation continued across testaments of a single spiritual doctrine.

 

[pinebeach]

Does God use force to create things? I think the Bible teaches that God speaks things into existence. Why can't God speak into existence that I choose him?

Gee. That begs the question why did God tell the Israelites to CHOOSE whom they would serve? Seems He created an awfully aggravating bunch of laws which, you have to ask, to what end since no one could ever keep them to perfection?

God must use force since He does not seem to enquire if the universe desired to be created.

I think I have just lost a couple of IQ points trying to make sense of your....uh....explanation regarding your understanding of how one becomes a Christian or believer or whatever term you might choose to use. Perhaps a 5 point Calvinist?

 

[pinebeach]

You were given scripture, maybe you want a newspaper clipping or something

I have a Bible that does not support Calvinism.

 

[pinebeach]

You do if you reject TULIP Truths, they are derived from scripture.

All them the Father gave Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And here we have classic Calvinism in all of its 5 point doctrine.

Just pointing out the fact that saying someone is a Calvinist is not name calling when they gladly support the classification themself.

 

[brightfame52]

False Accusation.

No its not. Jesus didnt die for all mankind, no scripture ever stated that

 

[pinebeach]

Yes, Calvinist seems mostly to be a label simply used by those who love to misrepresent
the Biblical beliefs of others, while they contradict and deny what is explicitly articulated
of the natural man who is opposed to the spiritual things of God, captive to the will of the
devil (which they call being free), refusing to come into the Light because they are incapable
of receiving or understanding the things of God, hearing the gospel message as foolishness,
and serve the law of sin and death. Some think nothing of rewriting the very words of Jesus
Christ Himself, and blaspheming God rather than admit to the fact they are wrong.

Even a casual reading of this thread will illustrate that Calvinism does exist and no one is misrepresenting the posts that support that fact. However, if you are not convinced, just find your favorite browser and do a little research.

I have no idea why you would seemingly try to make those who do not agree with Calvinism, to be doing nothing more that name calling and falsely accusing others in a simple disagreement over doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

I have a Bible that does not support Calvinism.

Tulip is the Gospel, and you have been shown Tulip in the scriptures b4 and rejected it

 

[rogerg]

Gee. That begs the question why did God tell the Israelites to CHOOSE whom they would serve?

That was Old Covenant. With the New Covenant, no choices by man are either possible nor permitted - God does it all and
that is what makes it by grace.

 

[pinebeach]

I was talking about Esau and Jacob and their story in Genesis.

The calvinist label is put on people because once you deny for example that Jesus died for everyone (the L in TULIP), you are presenting a Gospel that is vastly different than the Church has presented throughout the centuries. Labeling is sometimes good-

When some tells you that you do not believe in T.U.L.I.P. they self identifying as a Calvinist. I am slightly intrigued why someone would say we are just calling names. It almost sounds mocking.

 

[brightfame52]

Gee. That begs the question why did God tell the Israelites to CHOOSE whom they would serve?

The Israelites were Gods chosen people already. And it wasn't their choice