Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[pinebeach]

Tulip is the Gospel, and you have been shown Tulip in the scriptures b4 and rejected it

I have been shown, accepted and believe that the gospel is as follows from this site. I chose this site because he explanation is clearly derived from scripture and easy to understand.

You, have only shown yourself to be a classically rude Calvinist waving a 5 point flag. Just the fact you say 'you have been shown' shows the belief that Calvinists have that they are 'the elect'. Does this mean that if someone does not believe your 5 point system is the gospel, yet they have accepted Christ in all of the Biblical understanding of what that entails, that they are rejected by God because they reject Calvinism?

The word gospel literally means “good news” and occurs 93 times in the Bible, exclusively in the New Testament. In Greek, it is the word euaggelion, from which we get our English words evangelist, evangel, and evangelical. The gospel is, broadly speaking, the whole of Scripture; more narrowly, the gospel is the good news concerning Christ and the way of salvation.

The gospel involves Jesus’ death on the cross as the sin offering to fulfill the Law’s righteous requirement (Romans 8:3–4; Hebrews 10:5–10). Under the Law, animal sacrifices were offered year after year as a reminder of sin and a symbol of the coming sacrifice of Christ (Hebrews 10:3–4). When Christ offered Himself at Calvary, that symbol became a reality for all who would believe (Hebrews 10:11–18). The work of atonement is finished now, and that’s good news.

The gospel also involves Jesus’ resurrection on the third day. “He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification” (Romans 4:25). The fact that Jesus conquered sin and death (sin’s penalty) is good news, indeed. The fact that He offers to share that victory with us is the greatest news of all (John 14:19).

 

[pinebeach]

The Israelites were Gods chosen people already. And it wasn't their choice

Kindly point out the scripture where God states CHOOSES and then says oops I changed my mind. Nothing as impossible to help as willful rejection of what is plainly written.

Do you have any actual purposeful and intelligent things to post that indicate you're able to converse without cute one liners that do not line up with the actual biblical narrative?

 

[pinebeach]

That was Old Covenant. With the New Covenant, no choices by man are either possible nor permitted - God does it all and
that is what makes it by grace.

That's ridiculous. You are saying God forced you to accept Christ and now forces you every day and every hour and every minute to do His bidding.

I would tell you to think about the implications of that, but of course you cannot since God would not have you do so.

You are also saying that God is not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow since He has changed from the old to the new testament. Think about the implications of that but I digress.

 

[pinebeach]

Here is a thought.

I say I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in my post above in very simplictic terms as the Bible contains depth that a person can continue to penetrate day after day, if they are so inclined and I certainly am.

So, I also say I do not support Calvinism.

Do Calvinists then state that I am not 'chosen' or the 'elect'' if I follow Christ rather than Calvin? If so, what do you do with :

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31

 

[Hakawaka]

No its not. Jesus didnt die for all mankind, no scripture ever stated that

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [or every elect man?]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only[is the ours the elect`?], but also for the sins of the whole world.[is the whole world also the elect?]

 

[brightfame52]

I have been shown, accepted and believe that the gospel is as follows from this site. I chose this site because he explanation is clearly derived from scripture and easy to understand.

You, have only shown yourself to be a classically rude Calvinist waving a 5 point flag. Just the fact you say 'you have been shown' shows the belief that Calvinists have that they are 'the elect'. Does this mean that if someone does not believe your 5 point system is the gospel, yet they have accepted Christ in all of the Biblical understanding of what that entails, that they are rejected by God because they reject Calvinism?

The word gospel literally means “good news” and occurs 93 times in the Bible, exclusively in the New Testament. In Greek, it is the word euaggelion, from which we get our English words evangelist, evangel, and evangelical. The gospel is, broadly speaking, the whole of Scripture; more narrowly, the gospel is the good news concerning Christ and the way of salvation.

The gospel involves Jesus’ death on the cross as the sin offering to fulfill the Law’s righteous requirement (Romans 8:3–4; Hebrews 10:5–10). Under the Law, animal sacrifices were offered year after year as a reminder of sin and a symbol of the coming sacrifice of Christ (Hebrews 10:3–4). When Christ offered Himself at Calvary, that symbol became a reality for all who would believe (Hebrews 10:11–18). The work of atonement is finished now, and that’s good news.

The gospel also involves Jesus’ resurrection on the third day. “He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification” (Romans 4:25). The fact that Jesus conquered sin and death (sin’s penalty) is good news, indeed. The fact that He offers to share that victory with us is the greatest news of all (John 14:19).

Tulip Truths are integreated in the Gospel

 

[Roger316]

Well Christ is God and He met all the conditions to save His Sheep/Church, hence they are saved

All of the conditions?

 

[brightfame52]

Kindly point out the scripture where God states CHOOSES and then says oops I changed my mind. Nothing as impossible to help as willful rejection of what is plainly written.

Do you have any actual purposeful and intelligent things to post that indicate you're able to converse without cute one liners that do not line up with the actual biblical narrative?

So you dont believe Israel was Gods chosen people. Im not going to show you any scripture either

 

[brightfame52]

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [or every elect man?]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only[is the ours the elect`?], but also for the sins of the whole world.[is the whole world also the elect?]

Nothing about Jesus dying for all mankind in those verses

 

[brightfame52]

All of the conditions?

Uh Yeah, You didnt know the Father sent Him to save people

 

[GWH]

I have given scripture for my beliefs, you dont believe them

Since you apparently forgot the Scripture you gave, I collected them for you:

John 6:37 says that Jesus will not reject those the Father saves.
John 17:2 says that Jesus will give eternal life to those the Father saves.
2Thes. 2:13-14 means that from the beginning God chose to save and sanctify those who believe the Truth/Gospel.

Anything else?

Here are a couple for you to add to those: John 20:31, Rev. 22:17.

 

[rogerg]

That's ridiculous. You are saying God forced you to accept Christ and now forces you every day and every hour and every minute to do His bidding.

I would tell you to think about the implications of that, but of course you cannot since God would not have you do so.

You are also saying that God is not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow since He has changed from the old to the new testament. Think about the implications of that but I digress.

Ridiculous? If it is, you'd better let God know because that's what He wrote as the stipulations of the New Covenant. For those He places under it (the elect), He gives them new heart, new spirit, new soul, and a renewing of the mind, which are its byproducts, not cause. BTW, the Israel is spiritual Israel not earthly Israel.

Here, read it for yourself. Look at who the "I" is. Notice it was made unilaterally by God. For those to whom God places under it, they are not given an option to reject it.

[Eze 36:26-27 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

[2Co 3:3 KJV] 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

[Heb 8:10-13 KJV]
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

 

[Roger316]

Gee. That begs the question why did God tell the Israelites to CHOOSE whom they would serve? Seems He created an awfully aggravating bunch of laws which, you have to ask, to what end since no one could ever keep them to perfection?

Remember the historical context. God gave Israel laws so that they would live as his holy people in righteousness, goodness, love and truth. They never kept his covenant, as he said through Jeremiah. Someday they will.

God must use force since He does not seem to enquire if the universe desired to be created.

God doesn't use force the way we think about "force." God speaks things into existence.

I think I have just lost a couple of IQ points trying to make sense of your....uh....explanation regarding your understanding of how one becomes a Christian or believer or whatever term you might choose to use. Perhaps a 5 point Calvinist?

Since we are trained materialists, we tend to think of creation in a certain way. We tend to think that God created stuff in the past. We might also think that God creates us too, but only the person not his circumstances or his spiritual condition. But the Bible teaches us that God creates stories that are scripted from the foundation of the Earth. Each person he creates is the main character in his or her own story. Each person makes the choices God creates them to make.

God speaks things into existence, and as John says, there is nothing that exists that came to be apart from God. For instance, suppose he wants to tell a story about a man who came to faith in Jesus Christ as a teenager? He will say something like, "Let there be a boy who grows up in a military family and when he is a teenager, his girlfriend will leave the base with her father. When she gets to her new location, she will become a Christian. She will write letters to her former boyfriend, attempting to convince him to follow Christ. Then one day, he sees Billy Graham on TV and the boy gives his life to Christ."

God creates stories. He says, "Let there be a woman who lives in Croatia and after hearing the Gospel, she believes it and she witnesses to her husband, who also gives his life to Christ." He says, "Let there be a man who lives in Tennessee who gives his life to Christ after losing his money in a Poker match." He might say, "Let there be a sailor on the sea and after a night of rough seas, he looks out into the clear night sky and prays for a sign. At the stern, he sees a bright glow in the water and wonders how nature could have created something so beautiful and awe-inspiring. In the silent of the night he speaks from his heart, asking God to make himself more real to him.

A low, metallic thud rolled through the stern—nothing like the sharp crack of gunfire, but a deep, sickening impact, as if something enormous had struck the ship’s bones. The sailor froze. For a heartbeat he thought it was just the sea playing tricks in the dark, until the hull beneath him shuddered again, a groaning protest of steel under strain. He leaned over the rail and saw it: the blunt nose of a torpedo, half‑buried in the plating, its warhead lodged but silent, the sea swirling angrily around it. A dud—by inches, by fate, by mercy. His breath caught. Moments earlier he had been staring into the heavens, whispering a desperate prayer for a sign that God was real, that God saw him. Now, staring at the weapon that should have torn the stern apart, he felt his knees weaken. The night seemed suddenly vast and intimate at once, the glow on the horizon trembling like a held breath. He pressed a hand to the cold rail, eyes stinging, and whispered not another question but a stunned, reverent acknowledgment: the sign had come, and it had struck the ship like a fist of grace.

Let there be . . . . a story.

 

[rogerg]

I have been shown, accepted and believe that the gospel is as follows from this site

You really should really read scripture for yourself and try to understand it's intent instead of
blindly trusting in the knowledge of others

 

[Roger316]

Uh Yeah, You didnt know the Father sent Him to save people

When the jailer asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" What was the answer?

The jailer is not asking a theological question; he is asking a personal one. And Paul’s answer only makes sense when you see that distinction.

The jailer did not ask Paul and Silas, “How does salvation work?” or “What is the doctrine of atonement?” He asked the only question a desperate man can ask: “What must I do to be saved?” He had heard the hymns, felt the earthquake, seen the doors swing open, and suddenly realized that the God these men worshiped was not an idea but a living presence breaking into his own life. The existential weight of the moment crushed every abstract thought. He didn’t want to know whether Jesus saves people; he wanted to know whether Jesus would save him. And Paul’s answer—“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”—is not a general slogan. It is a direct, personal assurance spoken into the fear of a single man whose world had just been split open. It is salvation addressed not to humanity in the abstract but to a trembling soul who needed to know that God’s mercy had a name, a face, and a hand extended toward him.

 

[brightfame52]

When the jailer asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" What was the answer?

The jailer is not asking a theological question; he is asking a personal one. And Paul’s answer only makes sense when you see that distinction.

The jailer did not ask Paul and Silas, “How does salvation work?” or “What is the doctrine of atonement?” He asked the only question a desperate man can ask: “What must I do to be saved?” He had heard the hymns, felt the earthquake, seen the doors swing open, and suddenly realized that the God these men worshiped was not an idea but a living presence breaking into his own life. The existential weight of the moment crushed every abstract thought. He didn’t want to know whether Jesus saves people; he wanted to know whether Jesus would save him. And Paul’s answer—“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”—is not a general slogan. It is a direct, personal assurance spoken into the fear of a single man whose world had just been split open. It is salvation addressed not to humanity in the abstract but to a trembling soul who needed to know that God’s mercy had a name, a face, and a hand extended toward him.

You didnt know the Father sent Him to save people

 

[pinebeach]

So you dont believe Israel was Gods chosen people. Im not going to show you any scripture either

LOL! You, me and everyone else here knows I did not say that. You aren't going to show me any scripture? Well by gum then it's a good thig I have a Bible or two myself.

 

[pinebeach]

You really should really read scripture for yourself and try to understand it's intent instead of
blindly trusting in the knowledge of others

Talking to yourself? That might help

 

[pinebeach]

Since we are trained materialists

Sorry? When did we meet and have that discussion?

God doesn't use force the way we think about "force." God speaks things into existence.

I am forced to really think harde as to why you thought I was actually insinuating He used any force?

God creates stories. He says, "Let there be a woman who lives in Croatia and after hearing the Gospel, she believes it and she witnesses to her husband, who also gives his life to Christ." He says, "Let there be a man who lives in Tennessee who gives his life to Christ after losing his money in a Poker match." He might say, "Let there be a sailor on the sea and after a night of rough seas, he looks out into the clear night sky and prays for a sign. At the stern, he sees a bright glow in the water and wonders how nature could have created something so beautiful and awe-inspiring. In the silent of the night he speaks from his heart, asking God to make himself more real to him.

Very poetic.

Let there be . . . . a story.

What exactly are you trying to get across? We have many stories in scripture wherein there is no guessing

 

[pinebeach]

Ridiculous? If it is, you'd better let God know because that's what He wrote as the stipulations of the New Covenant. For those He places under it (the elect), He gives them new heart, new spirit, new soul, and a renewing of the mind, which are its byproducts, not cause. BTW, the Israel is spiritual Israel not earthly Israel.

Here, read it for yourself. Look at who the "I" is. Notice it was made unilaterally by God. For those to whom God places under it, they are not given an option to reject it.

[Eze 36:26-27 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

[2Co 3:3 KJV] 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

[Heb 8:10-13 KJV]
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

None of that screams TULIP. Nicely taken out of context though.