Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[pinebeach]

No its not. Jesus didnt die for all mankind, no scripture ever stated that

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish” (John 3:16).

Can or would you answer this though?

I say I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in my post above in very simplictic terms as the Bible contains depth that a person can continue to penetrate day after day, if they are so inclined and I certainly am.

So, I also say I do not support Calvinism.

Do Calvinists then state that I am not 'chosen' or the 'elect'' if I follow Christ rather than Calvin? If so, what do you do with :

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31

 

[brightfame52]

I have been shown, accepted and believe that the gospel is as follows from this site. I chose this site because he explanation is clearly derived from scripture and easy to understand.

I listened to the guy, its a false gospel he teaches

 

[brightfame52]

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish” (John 3:16).

Can or would you answer this though?

I say I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in my post above in very simplictic terms as the Bible contains depth that a person can continue to penetrate day after day, if they are so inclined and I certainly am.

So, I also say I do not support Calvinism.

Do Calvinists then state that I am not 'chosen' or the 'elect'' if I follow Christ rather than Calvin? If so, what do you do with :

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31

Jesus didn't die for all mankind, that's a false gospel

 

[RedLetterJoe]

No its not. Jesus didnt die for all mankind, no scripture ever stated that

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved

 

[brightfame52]

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved

okay

 

[Magenta]

Even a casual reading of this thread will illustrate that Calvinism does exist and no one is misrepresenting the posts that support that fact. However, if you are not convinced, just find your favorite browser and do a little research.

I have no idea why you would seemingly try to make those who do not agree with Calvinism, to be doing nothing more that name calling and falsely accusing others in a simple disagreement over doctrine.

Calvinism exists LOL who said otherwise? That was not what was being addressed in my post but it seems you want
to deny what has been evident to many here for quite some time. Nor did I do what you falsely accused me of.

PS~ I do not call rewriting the very words of Jesus Christ Himself a simple disagreement over doctrine.

 

[biblestudent78]

John 777
On the other hand, we really want no accountability for our salvation. No obedience. No spiritual growth. Not following in the steps of Jesus. Not rejection of the worldly for the sublime. No feeding to the hungry. Not healing of the sick. Not care for the widows and orphans. No visitation to those imprisoned for their witness for God. Now wonderfully convenient. A religion based on sacrifice relieving all"True" believers from any sacrifice. Easy peasley, pass the collection plate.

6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children 13– children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. 15 John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’” 16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Because of a fat friar named Luter we reject Jesus claims on our lives. Perhaps Jesus has a plan Luter did not want to accept:

Jesus commandments take at least four forms.

• Commands about the character of the new person “be this kind of new person”
• Commands that define the heart of the new person
• Commands for the new person to avoid
• Commands related to our common mission

Character of the New Person

Be light – Let your light shine Matt 5:16. If you have ever met a Christian whose light is always on, always at the ready, always asking, “How can I help?”

Be salt Matt 5:17 Salt was what preserved the food of life.

Be a servant Matt 23:11. Perhaps one of our poets put it best

Be a reconciler Matt 5:23-24, 18:15-17

Be on guard against greed and sin Luke 12:15

Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)

Be perfect (in love) Matt 5:48

Be forgiving Matt 18:21-22

Be repentant Matt 4:17

Be born again John 3:5

Be the person who will go the second mile Matt 5:41

Be the person who can turn the other cheek Matt 5:39

Be the person who always gives to those who ask Matt 5:42

Be the person who will always loan their stuff Matt 5:42

Be the person who seeks Gods Kingdom first Matt 6:33

Be the person who honors their marriage Mark 10:6-9

Be poor in spirit Matt 5:3

Be meek Matt 5:5

Be the person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness Matt 5:6

Be merciful Matt 5:7

Be pure of heart Matt 5:8

Be peace makers 5:9

Heart of the New Person

Love and pray for your enemies Matt 5:44-46

Love God and your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:37-39

Love one another as I have loved you John 13:34, John 15:12

Love and invite the poor into your life Luke 14:12-14

Show your love by:

Feeding the hungry and quenching the thirsty Matt 25:35

Inviting in the stranger Matt 25:35

Clothing the naked Matt 25:36

Visiting the sick Matt 25:36

Visiting those in prison Matt 25:36

Things the New Person should avoid

Don’t judge others Matt 7:1

Don’t lust Matt 5:27-30

Don’t fear those that can kill the body Matt 10:28

Don’t store up treasures on earth Matt 6:19

The Mission of the New Person

Find and enter the narrow gate Matt 7:13-14

Ask God for more harvest workers Matt 9:37-38

Make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey my commandments Matt 28:19-20

Let your light shine before all people (Matthew 5:16)

Be reconciled to one another (Matthew 5:23–24)

Christianity is a calling to a common mission with God. Our faith must lead us to obedience, “not my will, but Your will be done.” Obedience is the foundational layer of our relationship with God. Obedience is a requirement of love. Obedience is not possible without faith. We have faith in God, in his promises to us and in the eternal love He has for us.

James said faith without works is dead. Perhaps we can better understand the message this way. Faith without obedience is not faith. Faith is needed to experience our conversion to our new and different life in Christ. We may not have the tools to experience life change ourselves, but we put our faith in God knowing He can, and through His Holy Spirit living in us and combined with our desire for that new life we will experience the promised new life. We know from Jesus and the New Testament writers what our new life looks like.

 

[RedLetterJoe]

John 777
On the other hand, we really want no accountability for our salvation. No obedience. No spiritual growth. Not following in the steps of Jesus. Not rejection of the worldly for the sublime. No feeding to the hungry. Not healing of the sick. Not care for the widows and orphans. No visitation to those imprisoned for their witness for God. Now wonderfully convenient. A religion based on sacrifice relieving all"True" believers from any sacrifice. Easy peasley, pass the collection plate.

6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children 13– children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. 15 John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’” 16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Because of a fat friar named Luter we reject Jesus claims on our lives. Perhaps Jesus has a plan Luter did not want to accept:

Jesus commandments take at least four forms.

• Commands about the character of the new person “be this kind of new person”
• Commands that define the heart of the new person
• Commands for the new person to avoid
• Commands related to our common mission

Character of the New Person

Be light – Let your light shine Matt 5:16. If you have ever met a Christian whose light is always on, always at the ready, always asking, “How can I help?”

Be salt Matt 5:17 Salt was what preserved the food of life.

Be a servant Matt 23:11. Perhaps one of our poets put it best

Be a reconciler Matt 5:23-24, 18:15-17

Be on guard against greed and sin Luke 12:15

Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)

Be perfect (in love) Matt 5:48

Be forgiving Matt 18:21-22

Be repentant Matt 4:17

Be born again John 3:5

Be the person who will go the second mile Matt 5:41

Be the person who can turn the other cheek Matt 5:39

Be the person who always gives to those who ask Matt 5:42

Be the person who will always loan their stuff Matt 5:42

Be the person who seeks Gods Kingdom first Matt 6:33

Be the person who honors their marriage Mark 10:6-9

Be poor in spirit Matt 5:3

Be meek Matt 5:5

Be the person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness Matt 5:6

Be merciful Matt 5:7

Be pure of heart Matt 5:8

Be peace makers 5:9

Heart of the New Person

Love and pray for your enemies Matt 5:44-46

Love God and your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:37-39

Love one another as I have loved you John 13:34, John 15:12

Love and invite the poor into your life Luke 14:12-14

Show your love by:

Feeding the hungry and quenching the thirsty Matt 25:35

Inviting in the stranger Matt 25:35

Clothing the naked Matt 25:36

Visiting the sick Matt 25:36

Visiting those in prison Matt 25:36

Things the New Person should avoid

Don’t judge others Matt 7:1

Don’t lust Matt 5:27-30

Don’t fear those that can kill the body Matt 10:28

Don’t store up treasures on earth Matt 6:19

The Mission of the New Person

Find and enter the narrow gate Matt 7:13-14

Ask God for more harvest workers Matt 9:37-38

Make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey my commandments Matt 28:19-20

Let your light shine before all people (Matthew 5:16)

Be reconciled to one another (Matthew 5:23–24)

Christianity is a calling to a common mission with God. Our faith must lead us to obedience, “not my will, but Your will be done.” Obedience is the foundational layer of our relationship with God. Obedience is a requirement of love. Obedience is not possible without faith. We have faith in God, in his promises to us and in the eternal love He has for us.

James said faith without works is dead. Perhaps we can better understand the message this way. Faith without obedience is not faith. Faith is needed to experience our conversion to our new and different life in Christ. We may not have the tools to experience life change ourselves, but we put our faith in God knowing He can, and through His Holy Spirit living in us and combined with our desire for that new life we will experience the promised new life. We know from Jesus and the New Testament writers what our new life looks like.

Just curious, can I borrow some money? Kidding of course, but it was on your list.

May God richly bless you in your pursuit of perfect obedience.

 

[memberofthebride]

Huh I was feeling you up to this comment. Can you please explain a little. Whats this chance all about ?

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

these that reign with Christ for 1000 years are in the First Resurrection,
The first resurrection is at the return of Christ at the 7th Trumpet i.e. the last trump

5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This [is] the first resurrection.
at the 2nd resurrection after the 1000 years, the 100s of billions that have died are resurrected to flesh and blood and given their one opportunity for eternal life see Ezekiel 37

6 on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[biblestudent78]

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

these that reign with Christ for 1000 years are in the First Resurrection,
The first resurrection is at the return of Christ at the 7th Trumpet i.e. the last trump

5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This [is] the first resurrection.
at the 2nd resurrection after the 1000 years, the 100s of billions that have died are resurrected to flesh and blood and given their one opportunity for eternal life see Ezekiel 37

6 on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The thousand-year reign—known as the Millennium—is interpreted in three primary ways within Christian theology:

• Premillennialism: Christ returns literally before the thousand years to establish an earthly kingdom.
• Amillennialism: The thousand years is a symbolic number representing Christ's current spiritual reign through the church.
• Postmillennialism: The world becomes progressively Christianized before Christ returns to a fully established kingdom.

If you want a literal interpretation of Revelation (not recommended) you will be judged by your DEEDS and based on that judgement You will be thrown into an eternal torment. Not you beliefs. Not you claims of faith. Not your church affiliation. Not your claimed Holy Spirit baptism or your water baptism..... but on your deeds

Satan Bound

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Satan Cast into the Lake of Fire

7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven a and consumed them. 10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Judgment before the Great White Throne

11 Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.

And books were opened, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now read Matthew 25 to learn how God will judge you..... no matter what you "claim."

 

[brightfame52]

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

these that reign with Christ for 1000 years are in the First Resurrection,
The first resurrection is at the return of Christ at the 7th Trumpet i.e. the last trump

5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This [is] the first resurrection.
at the 2nd resurrection after the 1000 years, the 100s of billions that have died are resurrected to flesh and blood and given their one opportunity for eternal life see Ezekiel 37

6 on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All that is confusing and error but thanks !

 

[pinebeach]

Calvinism exists LOL who said otherwise? That was not what was being addressed in my post but it seems you want
to deny what has been evident to many here for quite some time. Nor did I do what you falsely accused me of.

PS~ I do not call rewriting the very words of Jesus Christ Himself a simple disagreement over doctrine.

Yes, Calvinist seems mostly to be a label simply used by those who love to misrepresent
the Biblical beliefs of others, while they contradict and deny what is explicitly articulated
of the natural man who is opposed to the spiritual things of God, captive to the will of the
devil (which they call being free), refusing to come into the Light because they are incapable
of receiving or understanding the things of God, hearing the gospel message as foolishness,
and serve the law of sin and death. Some think nothing of rewriting the very words of Jesus
Christ Himself, and blaspheming God rather than admit to the fact they are wrong.

Calvinism seems mostly to be a label. You said otherwise

So that wasn't what you addressed? It just looked like it?

I did not accuse you of anything, false or otherwise. I responded to your saying Calvinism seems to be most likely a label etc, so no accusation unless you accuse yourself.

I'm glad you don't recall rewriting the very words of Jesus Himself. You could not rewrite what He says if you tried. However, the entire Bible is our counsel and when that is taken into context, it disagrees with Calvinism. It might be interesting to know who you are thinking of when you say some think nothing of rewriting Jesus words and blaspheming God. I think we know.

It's kind of amusing when someone says they are being falsely accused to defend what they actually said. No one has to accuse you of anything when your own words say it all. If you cannot respond without falsely accusing me of something because you disagree with my stance on Calvinism, I will take it that is your way of disagreeing even though it's not factual.

 

[pinebeach]

I listened to the guy, its a false gospel he teaches

I studied Calvinism and found it to be the spawn of a murderous reprobate who never really left his Catholic roots.

You have an entire Bible and out of that rich resource you come out with TULIP and reject the fact that Jesus died for all.

As we both believe in Salvation though, do you think a person who does not accept Calvin's teaching is not really saved?

 

[pinebeach]

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish” (John 3:16).

Can or would you answer this though?

I say I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ as outlined in my post above in very simplictic terms as the Bible contains depth that a person can continue to penetrate day after day, if they are so inclined and I certainly am.

So, I also say I do not support Calvinism.

Do Calvinists then state that I am not 'chosen' or the 'elect'' if I follow Christ rather than Calvin? If so, what do you do with :

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31

Would one of you Calvinists or supporters of the reformed position sans Calvinism be able to answer my question above that I have now asked, counting this time, 4 times?

Who do you think you are addressing here? Non- Christians? Must a person accept TULIP in order to be saved?

Have you thought about that?

 

[Roger316]

Jesus didn't die for all mankind, that's a false gospel

The Bible says that he died for the entire world. John 3:16

 

[memberofthebride]

I have yes. Esau was never chosen to be a "bad guy". Read the story. Esau was simply not chosen to be the man from whom Israel comes from, the firstborn right went to Jacob instead.

Its talking about nations, the man Esau never served Jacob.

Genesis 25:23 And the Lord said unto her, “Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy body; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.”

Do you understand where this belief system of yours leads? It leads to GOD being responsible for every rape, murder, every perverted thought, theft, you name it. Its all in God's mind in eternity past, decreeing it. That is sickening. We are just God's victims with no will to do otherwise.

The Scriptures do not teach this view of God, God hopes and doesnt get. He expected grapes, got wild grapes, He asks what more should I have done to my vineyard in isaiah 5.
God seeks for a man to stand the gap and finds none.
God wants to gather Jerusalem yet they were unwilling.
The pharisees REJECTED the counsel of God by not getting baptized

I will ask you a question;

Judas Iscariot, did this man just happen to show up at the right time? at the right moment?
this man fulfilled many prophesies, specific events like the 30 pieces of silver and the potters field
When Christ called Judas, Christ called him to fulfill the prophesies all at the exact right time exactly as prophesied
wow! that was a stroke of luck, this man was alive and ready to do all he was prophesied to do?
and the other 11, what luck they all turned out to be just what Christ need at that moment in time and all close by.

How do you suppose God has been able to bring every thing to pass as He has over the last 6000 years, and How is it that all of the prophesies Christ about have occurred?
Just the book of Revelation alone shows --- God is in control, every thing will occur to the split second of the correct hour of the correct day, week, month and year.

Christ was bled to death, not hung etc, at 3PM on the 14th day of GOD's first month as prophesied.
God is in control, 100%.

If God said He hated Esau and loved Jacob at birth -- it is because before creation all of this was planned.
Judas was planned, all the prophets and men of God, John the Baptist all planned before creation.

 

[Roger316]

Would one of you Calvinists or supporters of the reformed position sans Calvinism be able to answer my question above that I have now asked, counting this time, 4 times?

Who do you think you are addressing here? Non- Christians? Must a person accept TULIP in order to be saved?

Have you thought about that?

The Bible teaches that God chooses the elect before the foundation of the world. A person is not chosen based on what they believe, so no, a person does not need to accept TULIP in order to be saved. In fact the L in TULIP is not true. The Bible doesn't teach Limited Atonement.

 

[Roger316]

Tulip is the Gospel, and you have been shown Tulip in the scriptures b4 and rejected it

TULIP is not the gospel. It is an interpretation of the Bible. The L in TULIP is false because it doesn't understand the atonement.

 

[pinebeach]

I listened to the guy, its a false gospel he teaches

so brightflame, you disagree with the gospel as presented in this video, based on scripture?

As previously stated by me, this site presents an easy to understand explanation of the gospel as I thought would be helpful for those who do not know what the actual gospel is.

However, while that video was included in that site, I presented these the following scriptures as proof of what scripture states concerning the gospel. So brightflame, why do you ignore these scriptures and decide to comment on a video I did not present as
my belief? To be sure, the speaker is sticking to scripture, but why ignore the scriptures I posted? Mind you, you seem to have a bad habit of ignoring scripture I post and just retort with one liners of your own opinion(s)

The word gospel literally means “good news” and occurs 93 times in the Bible, exclusively in the New Testament. In Greek, it is the word euaggelion, from which we get our English words evangelist, evangel, and evangelical. The gospel is, broadly speaking, the whole of Scripture; more narrowly, the gospel is the good news concerning Christ and the way of salvation.

The gospel involves Jesus’ death on the cross as the sin offering to fulfill the Law’s righteous requirement (Romans 8:3–4; Hebrews 10:5–10). Under the Law, animal sacrifices were offered year after year as a reminder of sin and a symbol of the coming sacrifice of Christ (Hebrews 10:3–4). When Christ offered Himself at Calvary, that symbol became a reality for all who would believe (Hebrews 10:11–18). The work of atonement is finished now, and that’s good news.

The gospel also involves Jesus’ resurrection on the third day. “He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification” (Romans 4:25). The fact that Jesus conquered sin and death (sin’s penalty) is good news, indeed. The fact that He offers to share that victory with us is the greatest news of all (John 14:19).

 

[GWH]

John 777
On the other hand, we really want no accountability for our salvation. No obedience. No spiritual growth. Not following in the steps of Jesus. Not rejection of the worldly for the sublime. No feeding to the hungry. Not healing of the sick. Not care for the widows and orphans. No visitation to those imprisoned for their witness for God. Now wonderfully convenient. A religion based on sacrifice relieving all"True" believers from any sacrifice. Easy peasley, pass the collection plate.

6 A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. 9 The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children 13– children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. 15 John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’” 16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Because of a fat friar named Luter we reject Jesus claims on our lives. Perhaps Jesus has a plan Luter did not want to accept:

Jesus commandments take at least four forms.

• Commands about the character of the new person “be this kind of new person”
• Commands that define the heart of the new person
• Commands for the new person to avoid
• Commands related to our common mission

Character of the New Person

Be light – Let your light shine Matt 5:16. If you have ever met a Christian whose light is always on, always at the ready, always asking, “How can I help?”

Be salt Matt 5:17 Salt was what preserved the food of life.

Be a servant Matt 23:11. Perhaps one of our poets put it best

Be a reconciler Matt 5:23-24, 18:15-17

Be on guard against greed and sin Luke 12:15

Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)

Be perfect (in love) Matt 5:48

Be forgiving Matt 18:21-22

Be repentant Matt 4:17

Be born again John 3:5

Be the person who will go the second mile Matt 5:41

Be the person who can turn the other cheek Matt 5:39

Be the person who always gives to those who ask Matt 5:42

Be the person who will always loan their stuff Matt 5:42

Be the person who seeks Gods Kingdom first Matt 6:33

Be the person who honors their marriage Mark 10:6-9

Be poor in spirit Matt 5:3

Be meek Matt 5:5

Be the person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness Matt 5:6

Be merciful Matt 5:7

Be pure of heart Matt 5:8

Be peace makers 5:9

Heart of the New Person

Love and pray for your enemies Matt 5:44-46

Love God and your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:37-39

Love one another as I have loved you John 13:34, John 15:12

Love and invite the poor into your life Luke 14:12-14

Show your love by:

Feeding the hungry and quenching the thirsty Matt 25:35

Inviting in the stranger Matt 25:35

Clothing the naked Matt 25:36

Visiting the sick Matt 25:36

Visiting those in prison Matt 25:36

Things the New Person should avoid

Don’t judge others Matt 7:1

Don’t lust Matt 5:27-30

Don’t fear those that can kill the body Matt 10:28

Don’t store up treasures on earth Matt 6:19

The Mission of the New Person

Find and enter the narrow gate Matt 7:13-14

Ask God for more harvest workers Matt 9:37-38

Make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey my commandments Matt 28:19-20

Let your light shine before all people (Matthew 5:16)

Be reconciled to one another (Matthew 5:23–24)

Christianity is a calling to a common mission with God. Our faith must lead us to obedience, “not my will, but Your will be done.” Obedience is the foundational layer of our relationship with God. Obedience is a requirement of love. Obedience is not possible without faith. We have faith in God, in his promises to us and in the eternal love He has for us.

James said faith without works is dead. Perhaps we can better understand the message this way. Faith without obedience is not faith. Faith is needed to experience our conversion to our new and different life in Christ. We may not have the tools to experience life change ourselves, but we put our faith in God knowing He can, and through His Holy Spirit living in us and combined with our desire for that new life we will experience the promised new life. We know from Jesus and the New Testament writers what our new life looks like.

Yes, except that because I was blessed with loving Christian parents, I understand obedient faith best as willing cooperation motivated by reciprocal or reflected love rather than by fear of a tyrant (Matt. 22:37, Rom. 5:5).