You took the time to type out this post. Are you saying you don't have the time to explain your interpretation of John 3:16? But why deny yourself the opportunity when the answer is on topic? Did God love the world or not?
Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe
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No Im not taking my time to explain nothing to you, when you are already opposing the things I have explained. I dont play bible hopscotch. If you really want to know my explanation, look up how do calvinist view Jn 3:16.
The locus of our disagreement centers on the question, “When did Christ’s death become efficacious for those it was meant to save?” Your view effectively collapses the timeline so that the benefits of the cross are applied immediately and universally to all the elect across history—apart from and prior to repentance and faith. In my view, the cross is inherently efficacious—it truly accomplishes redemption—but its benefits are effectually applied only when a person repents and believes.
Did Christ die for the sins of them that would not be born for hundreds of years in the future from 33 ad Yes or No
I know, and I agree with you.
But John’s meaning becomes clear only when read within the cultural debate raging at the time he wrote his Gospel. In that context, “the world” is not a metaphysical claim about God loving everything that exists. Rather, John uses “world” as an inclusive term—God’s saving love is not restricted to Israel alone but extends to both Jews and Gentiles. His wording pushes back against the assumption that the covenant promises were ethnically bounded.
Understand that when the Bible talks about God's choice of whom to save, it refers to a decision he made before the foundation of the earth. In other words, he chooses the elect before they have the opportunity to do anything at all. Therefore, behaviors such as repentance, belief, obedience and etc. are the result of God's transformative work. Such behaviors are markers, identifying those whom God chose.
You should do what I do. Give straightforward answers to the questions people pose during the discussion so that others might benefit or raise questions or objections.
I'm sure you already know this but other people seem to confuse "election" with "selection." Let me see if I can explain the difference.
A woman walks into a garden store because she wants a pot for planting flowers. She studies the shelves, comparing each pot according to a set of predetermined criteria—size, shape, color, style, durability. She weighs the pros and cons, eliminates the ones that don’t meet her standards, and finally chooses the pot that best fits her needs. That is selection: evaluating existing options and picking the best one from among many. The pots are already there; her role is simply to choose between them.
God’s election, however, is nothing like that. God does not walk down an aisle of pre‑existing vessels and pick the ones that meet His criteria. He is the potter, and the pots do not yet exist until He forms them. If He desires a vessel to display beauty on the mantle, He creates one for that purpose. If He desires a vessel to hold wine, He creates another suited to that task. Election is not God selecting from a lineup of autonomous candidates; it is God sovereignly fashioning vessels for the purposes He Himself has ordained.
A.W.Pink on John 3:16
Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted, that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. “God so loved the world”. Many suppose that this me…
mikejeshurun.wordpress.com
I have a comment about what you said. You deny Rom 5:10 as usual and base reconciliation to God on ones faith and repentance, whereas the scripture stated plainly they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies ! You reject it
Not per GW: Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.
She has heard this previously. She intentionally misrepresents arguments.
I know, and I agree with you.
But John’s meaning becomes clear only when read within the cultural debate raging at the time he wrote his Gospel. In that context, “the world” is not a metaphysical claim about God loving everything that exists. Rather, John uses “world” as an inclusive term—God’s saving love is not restricted to Israel alone but extends to both Jews and Gentiles. His wording pushes back against the assumption that the covenant promises were ethnically bounded.
God moved John (and all of the gospel writers) to write specifically what He wanted to convey - it did not originate from John. When God said He would destroy this world, what do you think He had in mind? Whichever world you come up with, it is the opposite of the world that He "so loved" of John 3:16-17 (that is what your question was about - the world of John 3:16-17, correct?)
[2Pe 3:10-13 KJV]
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Gen 3:6 occurred under the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant. When you can distinguish between the two, let me know and we can discuss further then.
[Hos 6:6-7 NIV]
6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
7 As at Adam, they have broken the covenant; they were unfaithful to me there.
Romans 5:1 NKJVTherefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Under the Good News of scripture, God is looking to see faith first.
However, under Calvinism/Reformed doctrine one's faith in/trust in the Good News of Christ Jesus does not actually amount to anything nor can it exist. People are born unable to believe in and trust in Christ Jesus as Savior.
Therefore, God will just justify whomever He wants.
Therefore, one is NOT justified according to God by faith in Reformed doctrine.
One is justified because God picked you.
This is NOT supported by scripture and context destroys this doctrine.
Under the Good News of scripture, God is looking to see faith first.
However, under Calvinism/Reformed doctrine one's faith in/trust in the Good News of Christ Jesus does not actually amount to anything nor can it exist. People are born unable to believe in and trust in Christ Jesus as Savior.
Therefore, God will just justify whomever He wants.
Therefore, one is NOT justified according to God by faith in Reformed doctrine.
One is justified because God picked you.
This is NOT supported by scripture and context destroys this doctrine.
Wait.... do you understand what Rom 5:1 is actually saying? It says "THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST". That
means the faith by which we're justified, therefore, MUST BE CHRIST'S FAITH GIVEN THAT JUSTIFICATION IS THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST as the verse so states, and is not by man's faith or it couldn't say "through our Lord Jesus Christ - the two - justification and faith - are hard linked. See what I'm saying? Think about it.