This comment you just posted is how false teachers respond to this topic. There is not such thing as Election to Salvation.
Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe
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Your response here is how false teachers respond to this topic. Election Salvation is a non-biblical term.
reading all the confusion above, I am very very blessed to know the TRUTH.
I am 100% certain there is no hell fire for all eternity, no eternal suffering
I am 100% certain, if there has been 100 billion conceived in the womb, 100 billion will be offered the opportunity for eternal life. even the aborted.
The Word states repeatedly: it is the few, not the many
and if you have read what I write you know what I believe is Truth, is not the same as the many.
not even in the same ball park
I believe that is one reason they murdered Christ, His did not match theirs.
I am 100% certain there is no hell fire for all eternity, no eternal suffering
I am 100% certain, if there has been 100 billion conceived in the womb, 100 billion will be offered the opportunity for eternal life. even the aborted.
The Word states repeatedly: it is the few, not the many
and if you have read what I write you know what I believe is Truth, is not the same as the many.
not even in the same ball park
I believe that is one reason they murdered Christ, His did not match theirs.
You don't know how many, by number, are of the elect, and no, one way or the other, you don't get to pass.
If it wasn't for God's election, then no one would/could ever become saved.
[Gal 4:27 KJV] 27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[Tit 3:4-7 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
[Rom 8:33 KJV] 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I keep hearing over and over --- we are saved by Grace ---- that is a lie!!!!
saved from WHAT ???---saved from eternal death WHICH IS the PENALTY of our sins against GOD!
What is it that saves us from eternal death ---- only the death of Jesus Christ that died as PAYMENT FOR OUR SINS --- OUR SINS against God!!!
It is by the "kindness"i.e. grace of the Father that HE sent HIS only Son to pay our personal payment for our personal sins while we were sinning every moment of every day, smiling!
and I realize this will change not one mind --- but --- it is now in your mind.
""You"" are the reason Christ was beaten half to death and hung on a tree by nails for 3 hours in horrendous pain before He was stabbed and bled out His blood as payment for our sins against GOD and died.
And this is the ONE that made us, our maker died so we could live.
You don't think Christians need to be faithful?! Hos. 6:7 applies to both covenants.
Faith was also applicable in both covenants, which the entire fourth chapter of Romans teaches.
I both know what a Savior is and believe that Christ is that Savior, but I have no idea why you think
it has to be either one or the other.
The problem is your ignorance of GW: Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Hos. 6:7, Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.
the elect are those in the FIRST Resurrection, only The Bride of Christ is being called now,
If the last 6000 years are the ONLY DAY, "period", eternal life will be offered --- then less than 1% of the 100 Billion will be given the GIFT of eternal life. the rest go the the "hell" Rome created to bring in more money and get more control.
Thank God none of this is true.
when scripture is posted and backed by other scriptures and logic --- it is rejected, so go on believing Rome.
No. Christians do not need to be faithful to become saved and Hos 6:7 definitely does not apply to both covenants - I don't even know where you would get that from - by the very fact there are two covenants, means they have nothing in common nor that is shared between them. Under the New Covenant, God graciously does it all on behalf of those He places under it. Therefore, nothing whatsoever is required nor permitted from them in order for them to become saved except to have been chosen by God for salvation. All is by His grace through Jesus Christ, Savior; under the Old Covenant, those who would become saved must satisfy everything perfectly that Christ satisfied which is impossible. If you don't believe that Jesus Christ has satisfied all of the requirements and stipulations necessary for salvation as the Savior, then you simply don't believe that Christ is the Savior - He can't both be the Savior and not be the one who saves totally, and which includes everything that is required for becoming saved. There is only one Savior mentioned in Scripture, and that Savior is Jesus Christ alone, and certainly, it is not man.
Not possible. Given there is only one way to salvation and that way is by Jesus Christ, then there can only be one way of becoming saved and that is by Jesus Christ. God did not produce two different and mutually exclusive pathways to salvation. Jesus told us that He alone is the way.
[Jhn 14:6 KJV] 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
the death of Jesus Christ is the only payment that is able to cover our debt, our penalty of death for our sins.
There is no other way to be given the GIFT of eternal life but by the work, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ
There is only ONE WAY!!
my point: if this is the only day salvation is offered through Jesus, then billions will not gain the GIFT of life.
over the last 6000 years it was only during the last 2000 years that it was even possible to have heard His name and explain how the millions in china, India etc could have even heard His name much less seen a bible or heard the Good news? even today it is possible many have not one clue concerning Christ.
What happens to the poor fellow that dies on the day the missionary shows up on his shore?
the bible wasn't even in print until the 1600's
So do they go to the "hell" invented by Rome?
there is a time only the Few are called and there is a time when the Many are called, one call, one chance. same eternal life
i hope you have read there is a FIRST Resurrection which strongly imply there is to be a 2nd for those that never even heard the name, never heard the Gospel or died at birth or at one year of age
What is taught in the majority of churches has holes big enough for B 52's to fly through.
sorry, you supplied no answers.
if what you have been taught and learned yourself can not account for children, over the last 6000 years, that have died, realistically in the billions, that is a huge hole in doctrine.
then what about those men, women and children, Christ told the Children of Israel to put to death as they took over their lands and homes? they were complete 100 % pagans?
Do you believe they are all going to the "hell" taught and invented by Rome to be tortured for all eternity?
I do not! That is NOT the GOD I follow and obey.
I know they will all have their one opportunity for salvation at the 2nd resurrection.
We are looping because you are still ignoring GW: Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Hos. 6:7, Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.
God took direct responsibility upon Himself (and still does) to instill His salvation message of Jesus Christ as the Savior and gives faith in Him unto all those whom He had elected unto salvation sometime before their deaths, regardless of when they lived such as with Noah, Abraham and others -it does not come from/by man's intellect but only by God. However, there were not many saved during OT times during the "former rain"; salvation became more prevalent after Pentecost during the "latter rain" which we are still in today. The first resurrection happens when we become born again from salvation; the second happens at the end when we actually and fully receive eternal life with our resurrected eternal bodies " in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" but that only pertains to those who were of the first resurrection. No where in Scripture I have found a specific pathway to salvation mentioned besides that of Christ alone as the verse I included in my prior post to you so states, and which seems pretty conclusive to me, but if you've found another way clearly stated in Scripture, post it, I'd like to read it.
Regarding "hell", we are told:
[Rev 20:14-15 KJV]
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
That is not a lie. Paul states this in his letter to the Ephesians.
That's right.
This is one of the greatest misunderstandings in Christianity. It is not true that the death of Christ was payment for our sins. First, the New Testament clearly teaches that our sins are forgiven. 1 John 1:9 And Second, Paul teaches us that the death of Christ on the cross was an act of propitiation. Romans 3:25
What is propitiation? Propitiation means that Jesus’ death removes wrath not by paying a legal penalty in our place, but by offering to God the one thing that truly pleases Him: the faithful, obedient, self‑giving love of the Son. In this model, Christ does not “pay our debt” in a commercial or penal sense; rather, He offers a life and death that restore God’s favor because they perfectly embody the righteousness God desires. This is the “price” of redemption—not a transfer of punishment, but the costly act of covenant faithfulness that heals the breach between God and humanity. Because the Father is pleased with the Son, Jesus is now perfectly qualified to be our Advocate, the One who stands before God on behalf of those who belong to Him. Salvation therefore depends on having this Advocate—Jesus Himself—who, after His resurrection, entered the heavenly temple and “offered His own blood” metaphorically, meaning He presented the finished work of His obedient life and sacrificial death as the basis of His ongoing intercession.
Jesus Himself teaches that salvation ultimately rests on His own decision, not on human initiative. He says the Son “gives life to whom He will” (John 5:21), that He gives eternal life only to those the Father has given Him (John 17:2), and that all whom the Father gives Him will certainly come and be raised (John 6:37–39). He distinguishes His sheep from those who are not His sheep and says unbelief results from not belonging to Him (John 10:14–16, 26–29). He also declares that no one knows the Father except those to whom He chooses to reveal Him (Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22). This same pattern appears when He tells the disciples, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16), and when Scripture says that those who believed were those “appointed to eternal life” (Acts 13:48). Taken together, these passages show that salvation is not an automatic consequence of the cross but the personal act of the risen Christ, who reveals the Father, gives life, and secures His own people according to His sovereign will.
I did supply answers. Perhaps you didn't understand them?
Why? What's your real objection? No one can meet the challenge you present because no one can account for what happens to the children after they die. The Bible is silent on that issue.
What about them?
The Bible doesn't teach never ending punishment.
Well, I appreciate your emotional arguments, but we must rest our hope on scripture.
yeah, I have to keep repeating myself because you don't comprehend the role of the Savior correctly. Every other verse pertaining to salvation should be viewed relative to Him even if on the surface, initially, it may not seem so (but after deeper examination it will), therefore, if you don't have that part correct, neither will you have anything else correct. Your perception of the gospel is like you're trying to build and upside-down pyramid. Instead, you need to start with the correct foundation, which is Christ alone, and then move upwards, always referencing back to Him as the guardrail and beacon. This is witnessed by your continual reference to Gen 3:6 which is of the OC, not the NC, but Christ is of the NC, not the OC. From that, I can only assume that you do not believe that Christ is the sole Savior, but that man is also co-savior, which is in direct contradiction to the gospel. As much as I've enjoyed this discussion (NOT), until you are able to see Christ as sole Savior, I, once again, cannot see any reason to continue it.