Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[brightfame52]

bright, so you have no explanation, no way to explain

I dont have nothing for you unless you want to discuss one of my threads.

 

[memberofthebride]

God took direct responsibility upon Himself (and still does) to instill His salvation message of Jesus Christ as the Savior and gives faith in Him unto all those whom He had elected unto salvation sometime before their deaths, regardless of when they lived such as with Noah, Abraham and others -it does not come from/by man's intellect but only by God. However, there were not many saved during OT times during the "former rain"; salvation became more prevalent after Pentecost during the "latter rain" which we are still in today. The first resurrection happens when we become born again from salvation; the second happens at the end when we actually and fully receive eternal life with our resurrected eternal bodies " in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" but that only pertains to those who were of the first resurrection. No where in Scripture I have found a specific pathway to salvation mentioned besides that of Christ alone as the verse I included in my prior post to you so states, and which seems pretty conclusive to me, but if you've found another way clearly stated in Scripture, post it, I'd like to read it.

Regarding "hell", we are told:

[Rev 20:14-15 KJV]
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

rogerg,

you appear sincere, and I appreciate that, some are not so.
I have explained in other comments that I am of the few -- not the many, the very few.
which means what I have found to be Truth, most of the time is 180 degrees from the majority of main stream doctrine.
I obey, which the Many refuse to do
I observe the 7th Day Sabbath and all 7 of Gods Holy Feasts including the Spiritual Passover on the night of the 14th not the night of the 15th which is the physical Passover.
I do not believe any will go to heaven
I do not believe any will spend eternity being tormented in some hell.
I do not do xmas, easter or sunday
I do not follow Paul's misunderstood doctrine of grace
all of the above, alone -- puts me in with the few.

if you have questions I will be happy to attempt to answer them
I am not smart But I am not stupid LOL

 

[memberofthebride]

I did supply answers. Perhaps you didn't understand them?

Why? What's your real objection? No one can meet the challenge you present because no one can account for what happens to the children after they die. The Bible is silent on that issue.

What about them?

The Bible doesn't teach never ending punishment.

Well, I appreciate your emotional arguments, but we must rest our hope on scripture.

the Word is not silent on children!

Revelation and Ezekiel have the answers, which I am almost certain you will reject

Ezekiel 37 is the 2nd resurrection back to physical bodies with blood and breathing air.
this occurs after the 1000 years is complete, Rev 20
the 100 billion that never had their one opportunity for eternal life are returned to flesh and blood to learn God's Perfect WAY. this includes children and even those aborted, all 100 billion that have lived and died for the last 6000 years.

If they repent of sin and are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit in them, and live God's perfect way over another life time they will be given spirit bodies and eternal life.

Those Christ told the Children of Israel to put to death are in the 2nd resurrection, they all get their one chance.

the 6 billion today that are not followers of Christ, pagans and all others, and The Many that Christ does not know, are in the 2nd resurrection. this number, today alone, could be close to 8 billion.

explain why this is wrong and why 100 billion will suffer for eternity.

 

[lrs68]

Wrong. Here is where:

[Rom 9:10-16 KJV]
10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God still foreknew what Esau would do. Nowhere does it say God made Esau to view the Birthright and Inheritance like he did and would just give it away. Esau still made decisions that God hated and God knew what Esau would do before he was ever born.

 

[EddieM]

I did supply answers. Perhaps you didn't understand them?

Why? What's your real objection? No one can meet the challenge you present because no one can account for what happens to the children after they die. The Bible is silent on that issue.

What about them?

The Bible doesn't teach never ending punishment.

Well, I appreciate your emotional arguments, but we must rest our hope on scripture.

2 Samuel 12.23 tells about David's child who died shortly after birth. He rejoiced once the baby had died because he said he can't come to me, but I shall see him again.

ALL BABIES GO TO HEAVEN. The only reason a person goes to hell is if he rejects God's offer of salvation.

 

[EddieM]

Sure its biblical, maybe not to you.

Show me

 

[HeIsHere]

he chose us: have you noticed that the nation of Israel is the chosen nation of God. Do you think all Jewish people were saved? Of course not. Here, election/chosen is not to salvation.

Have you noticed how the disciples were chosen you 12, but one of you is the devil? GJohn 6.70

This is simply to let you know that being elected (like Israel and the 12 Disciples) is not about salvation.

What about your verse above, it says you were chosen, right? Actually not in the way you are using chosen. The Christians were chosen IN CHRIST (as a believer). This is called Positional Truth. They were not chosen out of Him (as an unbeliever), but in Him.


The actual theological definition of election means chosen to a privilege position. Israel were chosen as God's special people, not to salvation. And here God chose Jacob over Esau through whom He would carry on the covenant.


In the NT Greek the word 'believers' is in the middle of the sentence, not the end. The word 'destined' is in the Middle Voice, meaning they had destined themselves to eternal life when they believed.




GJohn 12.32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”




Rom 11:32

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.



This passage is about Sanctification, the Christian walk.

Well done!
Context destroys TULIP/Calvinism (metaphorically of course )

 

[HeIsHere]

Frankly, that is a distinctly profound question in my opinion. To be honest, a lot of things that God does makes me uncomfortable but I trust him so implicitly that I am willing to accept whatever he does.

Even so, I believe in the narrative structure of creation. If the world really is structured as a narrative authored by God, then our lives are not random sequences of events but storylines crafted with intention, coherence, and moral trajectory. In that framework, God is not merely issuing commands from above; He is shaping characters within a plot, giving each person a role that fits within the larger drama of creation and redemption. This means His judgments and punishments are never arbitrary outbursts of divine power but the natural outworking of the story He is telling—consequences that arise from the kind of character a person becomes and the purpose for which they were made. In a narrative universe, fate is not imposed from the outside; it is the logical implication of one’s identity and vocation within the story. God creates no one without purpose, and the end of each life follows organically from the role they inhabit, the choices they make, and the arc their story takes under His authorship.

God is not in the business of withholding salvation and bequeathing it to some arbitrarily.

But nice paragraph.

 

[Magenta]

I should have said that I agree with your question about ignoring human choice.

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is
hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Magenta]

And guess who is controlled by the flesh? EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD. How
odd anyone can think that person can please God or generate faith by making some choice Scripture says is IMPOSSIBLE to them.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit
of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

The unregenerated person is a slave to sin and opposed to the spiritual things of God which are FOOLISHNESS to that
person, but we have lots saying that person? Yes, he is the one who will choose what Scripture says he cannot. Weird.
Truly. Choose to believe what is nonsense to him. Well, people do believe all kinds of nonsense. Like free will.
Captives to the will of the devil do not decide to walk into the Light. They refuse to, just as Scripture says.

Romans 8 v 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Thank You Jesus

 

[Magenta]

Set Free
I praise God for rescuing me from the dominion of darkness.

 

[Magenta]

We Praise You

 

[Magenta]

Boast In The Lord

 

[GWH]

yeah, I have to keep repeating myself because you don't comprehend the role of the Savior correctly. Every other verse pertaining to salvation should be viewed relative to Him even if on the surface, initially, it may not seem so (but after deeper examination it will), therefore, if you don't have that part correct, neither will you have anything else correct. Your perception of the gospel is like you're trying to build and upside-down pyramid. Instead, you need to start with the correct foundation, which is Christ alone, and then move upwards, always referencing back to Him as the guardrail and beacon. This is witnessed by your continual reference to Gen 3:6 which is of the OC, not the NC, but Christ is of the NC, not the OC. From that, I can only assume that you do not believe that Christ is the sole Savior, but that man is also co-savior, which is in direct contradiction to the gospel. As much as I've enjoyed this discussion (NOT), until you are able to see Christ as sole Savior, I, once again, cannot see any reason to continue it.

Yes, useless to continue is what I meant by looping, because you continually ignore NT Scripture: Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, and completely reject OT Scripture: Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Hos. 6:7, etc. I can only assume that you are brain-washed as I could have been being raised in a Baptist church to believe OSAS, but fortunately I read the Bible for myself and learned that doctrine was wrong.

 

[GWH]

rogerg,

you appear sincere, and I appreciate that, some are not so.
I have explained in other comments that I am of the few -- not the many, the very few.
which means what I have found to be Truth, most of the time is 180 degrees from the majority of main stream doctrine.
I obey, which the Many refuse to do
I observe the 7th Day Sabbath and all 7 of Gods Holy Feasts including the Spiritual Passover on the night of the 14th not the night of the 15th which is the physical Passover.
I do not believe any will go to heaven
I do not believe any will spend eternity being tormented in some hell.
I do not do xmas, easter or sunday
I do not follow Paul's misunderstood doctrine of grace
all of the above, alone -- puts me in with the few.

if you have questions I will be happy to attempt to answer them
I am not smart But I am not stupid LOL

Not believing in heaven or Paul's doctrines, it is surprising you are allowed on CC,
but I guess the administrators allow heretics for a while in order to give Christians the opportunity to
learn how to refute such perversions with the hope y'all will repent, convert to faith in the Gospel,
and become a member of Christ's body/church, which is His bride. I sincerely pray that will come to pass.

 

[brightfame52]

Show me

Thats Gods business

 

[memberofthebride]

Not believing in heaven or Paul's doctrines, it is surprising you are allowed on CC,
but I guess the administrators allow heretics for a while in order to give Christians the opportunity to
learn how to refute such perversions with the hope y'all will repent, convert to faith in the Gospel,
and become a member of Christ's body/church, which is His bride. I sincerely pray that will come to pass.

I follow Jesus Christ not Paul's twisted words that lead to destruction.
Paul, when understood, follows Christ, he is not a false apostle.

After 60 years of studying the Word, I have never found even one that states clearly the reward of the saved is the 3rd heaven, none that state in effect, "when we all get to heaven", but many that state we will rule with Christ here on earth.
and here is a real conundrum 5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
here is one more; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

please post just one showing that even one will live in heaven. do not bring up Enoch or Elijah, neither are in the 3rd heaven both are dead and in their graves. per the book of Hebrews.

 

[GWH]

I follow Jesus Christ not Paul's twisted words that lead to destruction.
Paul, when understood, follows Christ, he is not a false apostle.

After 60 years of studying the Word, I have never found even one that states clearly the reward of the saved is the 3rd heaven, none that state in effect, "when we all get to heaven", but many that state we will rule with Christ here on earth.
and here is a real conundrum 5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
here is one more; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

please post just one showing that even one will live in heaven. do not bring up Enoch or Elijah, neither are in the 3rd heaven both are dead and in their graves. per the book of Hebrews.

I know, but Christians follow Christ's words in both the gospels and the epistles.

We have been learning GW about the same length of time, and heaven on a new earth is fine with me.

 

[memberofthebride]

I am going to include this;

My answer to those accusing me of earning salvation, earning eternal life.

John 8
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my “saying” (#3058 word) he shall never see death.
If attempting to keep the “Word” of Jesus Christ, is earning salvation, I am guilty.

John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,

The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

If the One by Whom all things have been Made in heaven and here on earth, can do nothing of Himself,
then my ability to earn my own salvation is less than ZERO.

Even this I cannot do by my own power If a man keep my saying If I could keep it by my own power and ability, then I have ‘earned’ life eternal.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Again --- how is it possible that I can obey by my own power—some mornings I have difficulty just getting out of bed. I am well aware just how limited is my ability.

Any that foolishly think they can do anything, even simply believing in Jesus, do not understand.

Anything a person thinks they can do, by their own power, even just believing --- is earning their salvation by their own efforts! --- salvation is a gift, unearnable GIFT of GOD.

There is NOT one thing any can do on their own. You cannot even seek God the Father or Christ; the Father must draw you. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: the word draw is also ‘drag’, which is how I began to follow Jesus Christ. I never on my own would have come.

The many reject any thing from the O T I post, and yet 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I will use the Old and the New Testament to continue my grown, my understanding of the TRUTH of God. Jesus Christ is the author of both the Old and the New.