Is cessation an observation or theology?

[Anchorite]

They did hit the road. They started in Jerusalem and worked their way out. Just like Jesus said.

Again, if you believe Jesus commissioned you, why haven't you obeyed and gone?

Nope. The apostles remained in Jerusalem.

 

[Cameron143]

Nope. The apostles remained in Jerusalem.

Really?
John didn't go to Ephesus?
Peter didn't go to Caesarea?
Thomas didn't go to India?
Andrew didn't go to Asia Minor or Greece?
Peter didn't go to Rome?

 

[Anchorite]

They did hit the road. They started in Jerusalem and worked their way out. Just like Jesus said.

Again, if you believe Jesus commissioned you, why haven't you obeyed and gone?

The apostles did not hit the road, they remained in Jerusalem. Thus, the Great Commission was not restricted to the original apostles, but was given to all believers, and is still in effect today.


Acts 8

1 On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him.

3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

 

[Cameron143]

The apostles did not hit the road, they remained in Jerusalem. Thus, the Great Commission was not restricted to the original apostles, but was given to all believers, and is still in effect today.


Acts 8

1 On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him.

3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

Read Acts 10. Peter definitely went to Caesarea to go to Cornelius' house.

I appreciate the discussion but if you aren't going to believe what the Bible clearly states, a discussion will prove fruitless. The travel of the other Apostles is easily found by a Google search.

Grace and peace.

 

[Headinghome]

May I correct you, the Holy Sprit is not an 'it'.
Do I believe in the Holy Spirit and His power?

At the age of 14 years, I experienced the power of the Holy Spirit in my life when I yielded to the Lord Jesus Christ, and became a believer. My life was totally changed.
At 21 years, at Bible College I experienced the Holy Sprit's power as He came in His fullness, filling me with His Divine love.
I have since experienced the Holy Spirit as the 'Spirit of Holiness' as He has sanctified me and delivered me from sin.
I have experienced the Holy Spirit's power in healing in answer to prayer, multiple times over.
So, yes. I believe in the Holy Sprits power.

I know I am replying here rather late, but here goes.
I am glad you experienced the power of the Holy Spirit in your life. That is awesome.
I am asking you to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you are at all bitter or unforgiving toward people regarding this.
We have all come in contact with the fake. It is inevitable. Be wise, yes. Be cautious? Yes, but not bitter or unforgiving.
I was lied to and cheated by someone who claimed the Spirit's power. But I had to learn to forgive. It was tough believe me.
Don't be bitter, Fellow Traveller...

 

[Aussie52]

I know I am replying here rather late, but here goes.
I am glad you experienced the power of the Holy Spirit in your life. That is awesome.
I am asking you to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you are at all bitter or unforgiving toward people regarding this.
We have all come in contact with the fake. It is inevitable. Be wise, yes. Be cautious? Yes, but not bitter or unforgiving.
I was lied to and cheated by someone who claimed the Spirit's power. But I had to learn to forgive. It was tough believe me.
Don't be bitter, Fellow Traveller...

No, I am not bitter over my treatment in the Pentecostal Churches. I was angry and disappointed, but the Lord graciously brought healing to my soul and emotions.
Be Blessed

 

[pinebeach]

It has nothing to do with soteriology. We're looking at a few scriptures. And I do believe we are to evangelize. And you make my point for me. The Great Commission requires those commissioned to go. Most believers don't go. How then do you say all believers are commissioned to go?

OK. I don't see the point you are trying to make. It is not indicated anywhere in scripture that everyone should go off on a mission and obviously the instructions given to the 11, with Paul included later, is not meant for every person.

I think you are kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Personally, I have never said in this forum or in the real world, that everyone needs to go.

However, the church (Christ's body) is to receive spiritual gifts for the building up of said body and many other things.

I see nothing to debate here, so thanks but no thanks.

 

[pinebeach]

Read Acts 10. Peter definitely went to Caesarea to go to Cornelius' house.

I appreciate the discussion but if you aren't going to believe what the Bible clearly states, a discussion will prove fruitless. The travel of the other Apostles is easily found by a Google search.

Grace and peace.

Really? That old slam again? 'IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE ETC ETC' when what is actually being said is 'if you don't believe my interpretation, you are wrong.'

And yeah I know you are not addressing that to me but at this point, and having seen this exact sentiment in so many threads in
this forum, especially from those who adhere to Calvinist beliefs, I see this as covert bullying.

Not going to respond to your 'corrections'.

May God richly bless you and lead you into all truth as much as you are willing

 

[pinebeach]

The apostles did not hit the road, they remained in Jerusalem. Thus, the Great Commission was not restricted to the original apostles, but was given to all believers, and is still in effect today.


Acts 8

1 On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him.

3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

4 Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

Your point is well taken but I see you are new here. I doubt your expectation is for every single believer to go out into the world
and your understanding is, no doubt, common in almost all believers. I do not believe we would even find that in scripture. If that were so, there would have been no letters written from Paul to believers who lived in one place...everyone would be running around bumping into each other and with different errors no dount.

So, we have the NT with instructions for those who are NOT following the so called Great Commission and packing a bag and going off into different countries. I am sure you do not mean that anyway.

Sometimes interpretation or understanding of scripture is based on what a person considers to be 'truth' but it will not be truth for everyone.

I think if someone is so inclined, they may see evangelism as the office of the Holy Spirit as the belief is that God saves, whether we want Him to save us or not...part of the TULIP system. You will be sure to run across these beliefs in some threads.

Anyway, no use in going back and forth when the foundation is not the same. There will always be a different edifice in view between parties of such interpretations.

 

[Cameron143]

OK. I don't see the point you are trying to make. It is not indicated anywhere in scripture that everyone should go off on a mission and obviously the instructions given to the 11, with Paul included later, is not meant for every person.

I think you are kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Personally, I have never said in this forum or in the real world, that everyone needs to go.

However, the church (Christ's body) is to receive spiritual gifts for the building up of said body and many other things.

I see nothing to debate here, so thanks but no thanks.

Others have asserted that the Great Commission did not include the Apostles leaving Jerusalem, and also asserted that they never left Jerusalem. This is what I was responding to because it is false.

You joined yourself to an ongoing discussion without reading all that was included. I tried to catch you up.

 

[Cameron143]

Really? That old slam again? 'IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE ETC ETC' when what is actually being said is 'if you don't believe my interpretation, you are wrong.'

And yeah I know you are not addressing that to me but at this point, and having seen this exact sentiment in so many threads in
this forum, especially from those who adhere to Calvinist beliefs, I see this as covert bullying.

Not going to respond to your 'corrections'.

May God richly bless you and lead you into all truth as much as you are willing

Response noted, but that's what you get when you join a conversation without familiarizing yourself with the entire discussion.

Peter clearly left Jerusalem, and the other Apostles did as well. If someone isn't going to believe established truth, nothing fruitful can come from a discussion. That's why I bowed out. And I did so politely wishing the poster both grace and peace.

Your insistence that every discussion be tied to soteriology is somewhat alarming. The discussion had nothing to do with salvation. Why would you force it in?

 

[Mem]

Response noted, but that's what you get when you join a conversation without familiarizing yourself with the entire discussion.

Peter clearly left Jerusalem, and the other Apostles did as well. If someone isn't going to believe established truth, nothing fruitful can come from a discussion. That's why I bowed out. And I did so politely wishing the poster both grace and peace.

Your insistence that every discussion be tied to soteriology is somewhat alarming. The discussion had nothing to do with salvation. Why would you force it in?

Your treatment of "all the world" requires that the definition be limited to a geographical construct. But if "all the world" means "all walks of life" then, it is quite feasible that a lot have been following that great commission.

 

[Cameron143]

Your treatment of "all the world" requires that the definition be limited to a geographical construct. But if "all the world" means "all walks of life" then, it is quite feasible that a lot have been following that great commission.

I believe the idea was to go to all people groups. Starting in Jerusalem covered the Jews, as did Judea. Then Samaria, to include a group that Jews formerly would have no association. Then just keep building out until every people group is reached.

While I believe the great commission was given to the Apostles, I believe the principle applies to all Christians. One aspect of that would certainly include all walks of life because all walks of life is a subset of all people groups.

You mentioned earlier Matthew 24:14. Jesus says once the gospel is witnessed to all the world, the end will come. How one understands the end there will undoubtedly color one's view. I believe the end there is the end of the old covenant. If this is correct, the great commission would bear significance in the 1st century.

 

[pinebeach]

Response noted, but that's what you get when you join a conversation without familiarizing yourself with the entire discussion.

Peter clearly left Jerusalem, and the other Apostles did as well. If someone isn't going to believe established truth, nothing fruitful can come from a discussion. That's why I bowed out. And I did so politely wishing the poster both grace and peace.

Your insistence that every discussion be tied to soteriology is somewhat alarming. The discussion had nothing to do with salvation. Why would you force it in?

Actually I did read the conversation. Your assumption that I did not may be related to the fact you must be right in your own mind.

What is alarming, is the way you asign error to everyone else. Soteriology? Salvation? Well I hinted at what you believe, but it was not actually addressed as salvation but you sure did understand me well enough.

What is being forced often enough in this forum, is Calvinism. There. More soteriology for you. No one can convince me that the way a person understands salvation does not reflect largely on how they interpret.

 

[pinebeach]

Your treatment of "all the world" requires that the definition be limited to a geographical construct. But if "all the world" means "all walks of life" then, it is quite feasible that a lot have been following that great commission.

Of course. The then know world included otherwise might we have found Paul in North Dakota?

 

[pinebeach]

Others have asserted that the Great Commission did not include the Apostles leaving Jerusalem, and also asserted that they never left Jerusalem. This is what I was responding to because it is false.

You joined yourself to an ongoing discussion without reading all that was included. I tried to catch you up.

Actually, said conversation is not even on topic if you want to get nitty gritty about it.

Yep. Believers are not focused on the evangelism of the world today..........They are focused on their personal self righteous "Super powers."

IMO, there are countries once 'evangelized' by the US, that could now come over here and evangelize....not the populace...but congregants in 'established' churches. In between fog machines, false prophecy and abuse to name a few things, it has become
as scripture describes:

They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it. Amos 8:12

And possibly worse, England, once the seat of sending out missionairies, is now practically apostate.

 

[pinebeach]

We do not know how frequent miracles are today. We cannot state positively that they are rare.

Many miracles occur today without any fanfare or media publicity. I have experienced quite a few myself, but I do not toot a horn to bring attention to myself.

Jesus even told some people not to tell anyone about their miracle healing. Jesus did not want to be constantly overwhelmed by huge crowds seeking miracles, though He did heal everyone who came to Him.

Christianity is supernatural, not just ethical. Our God is love and all powerful.

Let’s not limit Him through cynical negation of faith!

I would not give testimony in this forum because of the backlash and denial. When people do that, they are hurting themself.

I question why people say they believe in God who is Spirit and cannot be seen, say they believe that Jesus died and rose again for them personally and say they believe Jesus did all kinds of miracles and yet for some reason, God has become secular, Jesus is semi-retired and the Holy Spirit is a feeling for most that gives goosebumps.

Kind of weird to believe in a book whose entire existence for understanding is spiritual but then deny that spirituality from having any part in their lives.

 

[Cameron143]

Actually I did read the conversation. Your assumption that I did not may be related to the fact you must be right in your own mind.

What is alarming, is the way you asign error to everyone else. Soteriology? Salvation? Well I hinted at what you believe, but it was not actually addressed as salvation but you sure did understand me well enough.

What is being forced often enough in this forum, is Calvinism. There. More soteriology for you. No one can convince me that the way a person understands salvation does not reflect largely on how they interpret.

Grace and peace.

 

[pinebeach]

I don't believe this is the argument for most believers.

The majority of believers believe that the Spirit works in miracles.

Most/many believers don't believe @Dino246 has the specific power/gift to heal/speak in tongues/work miracles AT WILL to cure a cancer ward of all their ailments.

In my experience, people can come to and see the truth but most seem to be embedded in unbelief.

As far as healing the way Jesus did, 'on demand', I have given very serious consideration to that and I don't believe we are going
to see that in this time as people did back then. What is badly lacking is dicernment regarding what is done in Charasmatic and Pentecostal churches (not all of course). The majority seem to have thrown discernment out the window and figure if it happens
in a church, it must be God.

People might shriek at my next comment, but time will show I am quite possibly right.

Comment: Many churches have become the devil's playground where anything goes, feelings have taken the place of discernment and people don't want instruction. They want to feel good and ask for things from God like He is a cosmic Santa.
The flip side of that, is no spiritual life...Pastor closes shop at 12, shakes hands as people leave, and the Holy Spirit will write
Icabod over the entry when it goes on long enough.

I believe all the Bible states about the spiritual gifts, have a couple myself and I think too much is made of tongues.

We are approaching something I cannot define or maybe do not want to, but people really need to get their life in order before God

 

[pinebeach]

I have seen this taught in "Word of Faith Churches" who believe that faith entails denying the existence of real sickness and medical disorders. Faith, essentially, means denial. As a result, they often discontinue their medications and treatment with disastrous results. I remember how, many years ago, how a Word-of-Faith teacher named Hobart Freeman was indicted for encouraging a 15year old parishioner to take the step of faith by abandoning her kidney treatments after which she died. Freeman himself who was diabetic went off insulin and, as a result lost both his legs and died.

Certain members of my family who accepted some Phema Faith doctrine have resisted their medications and went into cognitive decline. In the past, some of us used to compare it to chewing tobacco: "COPELAND-HAGIN" chew it but never swallow it.
As often as I can I will intervene and attempt to dissuade my family from following the false doctrines associated with that movement. Like many Christian groups they are especially opposed to the concept of mental illness which most assume to be of demonic origin. I don't doubt that much of the torment people with mental illness go through is from Satan. A great deal of it has genetic biological roots. Since I myself have a mental illness and have had to deal with it as a reality, I know how much God the word and the Holy Spirit can help. However, I know that I cannot overcome it by wishing it didn't exist.

One of the best known churches in CA, who teaches the WOF doctrine is a hotbed of lies and deception. The 'Pastor's' wife died of cancer even though the husband believed she could be healed because everyone said so. And still people do not seem to
see the lies and hypocrisy when God demonstrates He is not at their command.

God always has the last word. I'm very sorry about your family members. I personally know of someone who would not take any meds or treatment, was in hospital because of advanced cancer...had 3 children and her husband was a co-pastor...and she passed away and her husband had remarried within a yr and good for him. I am sure he would have much rather she had got herself treatment.