Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[memberofthebride]

I understand. All of the tribes are back in the land right now.

roger that is impossible, the House of Israel is known today as the lost 10 tribes, they do not even know who they are.
If they were Jews, Jews all know they are Jews,
the 10 tribes were taken into captive 130 years before Judah and they were moved north and vanished.
the Jew went into captivity for 70 years and many were allowed to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple.

here is a prophecy
14Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. two separate nations
15In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this [is the name] wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
there is a 2500 + year old throne today that a decedent of David sits on that Christ will return to rule from
David is a Jew, where is that throne on which a Jew has sat for over 2500 years?

7Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

there are many other prophecies concerning the Throne of David which Christ will return to rule from when He returns

There is so much more than xmas and easter and sunday-- I have studied hard for 60 years and I am still learning incredible things, the WORD of GOD IS TRUTH and very very deep.

I am always excited and it is hard to turn it off, nope impossible, and it comes off as I am pushy --sorry

 

[Blade]

Was going to post but.. the more I read.. I remember in this bible study I was 15 she said if you really want to know who its about. When someone is talking you listen for "me me me" or "I I I . The fruit of the spirit is? Add to the 1st Cor 13.

Its real simple... to the OP I simply disagree with your post. Some believers do see it the way you posted I do not. This is one of those threads I will not take part it.. the talk between each other.. you know better.

 

[Roger316]

roger that is impossible, the House of Israel is known today as the lost 10 tribes, they do not even know who they are.

Modern Israel almost certainly includes descendants of all twelve tribes, but we cannot scientifically identify tribal affiliation. The tribes are lost to human history, but not to God.

17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
there is a 2500 + year old throne today that a decedent of David sits on that Christ will return to rule from
David is a Jew, where is that throne on which a Jew has sat for over 2500 years?

You may already know. God’s promise that David would “never lack a man to sit on his throne” does not mean Israel would always have a visible king ruling in Jerusalem. The monarchy ended with the Babylonian exile, yet Scripture insists the promise remained intact. That’s because the promise is dynastic, not political: God guaranteed that the line of David would never be cut off, not that the seat of David would always be occupied. Even during centuries without a king, the Davidic line continued through ordinary descendants, preserved quietly until the coming of Christ. The genealogies in Matthew and Luke exist precisely to show that God kept this covenant even when the throne stood empty.

Jesus fulfills the promise by becoming the final and eternal Davidic king. When He ascended, He did not abandon David’s throne—He took His rightful place on it, ruling from heaven until the day He reigns openly over all nations. In this way, the Davidic covenant is perfectly kept: the line never broke, the rightful heir arrived, and the throne is now occupied forever. The promise was never about an unbroken earthly monarchy; it was about God preserving a royal lineage until He installed the everlasting Son of David as King.
Christ will return to rule from when He returns

There is so much more than xmas and easter and sunday-- I have studied hard for 60 years and I am still learning incredible things, the WORD of GOD IS TRUTH and very very deep.

Amen. Well said.

I am always excited and it is hard to turn it off, nope impossible, and it comes off as I am pushy --sorry

I don't mind. I'm happy.

 

[GWH]

Quote one.

None.

 

[lrs68]

then how does God know the future? good guesses??

If what you believe was true then God is not in charge, and everything is happenstance!

I sure hope the Father and Christ are correct and Christ is returning and will rule for 1000 years.
Do you suppose they are waiting for the right moment for the Beast to arise??

Knowing what will happen and making it happen are two completely separate actions.

 

[lrs68]

Incorrect. Plenty about God intervening. Read those verses closely. It's all there - it was all by God. So, I answered your question and we see the events differently, so, guess we're done.

Typically intervening whenever someone calls upon the Lord for help but not much on interfering. Knowing what's going to happen doesn't mean you made it happen.

Ever be invited to a birthday party?
You know it's going to happen but you had no part into planning and making it happen. You just attended the party that you knew about and saw what would happen that you were aware about. But you didn't make it happen just knew it was going to happen.

 

[memberofthebride]

Modern Israel almost certainly includes descendants of all twelve tribes, but we cannot scientifically identify tribal affiliation. The tribes are lost to human history, but not to God.


You may already know. God’s promise that David would “never lack a man to sit on his throne” does not mean Israel would always have a visible king ruling in Jerusalem. The monarchy ended with the Babylonian exile, yet Scripture insists the promise remained intact. That’s because the promise is dynastic, not political: God guaranteed that the line of David would never be cut off, not that the seat of David would always be occupied. Even during centuries without a king, the Davidic line continued through ordinary descendants, preserved quietly until the coming of Christ. The genealogies in Matthew and Luke exist precisely to show that God kept this covenant even when the throne stood empty.

Jesus fulfills the promise by becoming the final and eternal Davidic king. When He ascended, He did not abandon David’s throne—He took His rightful place on it, ruling from heaven until the day He reigns openly over all nations. In this way, the Davidic covenant is perfectly kept: the line never broke, the rightful heir arrived, and the throne is now occupied forever. The promise was never about an unbroken earthly monarchy; it was about God preserving a royal lineage until He installed the everlasting Son of David as King.
Christ will return to rule from when He returns

Amen. Well said.

I don't mind. I'm happy.

Knowing what will happen and making it happen are two completely separate actions.

I agree, if God the Father and Christ did not control events, people and the timing-- how have we gotten this far?
Do you believe Judas just happen to show up at the right moment in time, that Christ did not know he was the one that would turn Him in and fulfill every single prophecy exactly?

Here is a thought: unless God has not stopped man from destroying himself, I do not understand how else we are still here. for 6000 years all we have done is kill each other

 

[GWH]

I agree, if God the Father and Christ did not control events, people and the timing-- how have we gotten this far?
Do you believe Judas just happen to show up at the right moment in time, that Christ did not know he was the one that would turn Him in and fulfill every single prophecy exactly?

Here is a thought: unless God has not stopped man from destroying himself, I do not understand how else we are still here. for 6000 years all we have done is kill each other

Yes, study of the HOB reveals that it has been dominated and punctuated by struggle for hegemony
as those who lust for power play king of the hill (KOTH). Apparently the last war will be Armageddon
(Rev. 16:12-16, 17:12-14, 19:19-23, 20:7-9, Matt. 24:21:22).

 

[rogerg]

Typically intervening whenever someone calls upon the Lord for help but not much on interfering. Knowing what's going to happen doesn't mean you made it happen.

Ever be invited to a birthday party?
You know it's going to happen but you had no part into planning and making it happen. You just attended the party that you knew about and saw what would happen that you were aware about. But you didn't make it happen just knew it was going to happen.

Do you understand what God's election means?

eklogē (Key)

1. the act of picking out, choosing
   1. of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
   2. the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2. a thing or person chosen
   1. of persons: God's elect

[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

[Rom 9:11- 12 NIV]
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand:
12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

[Rom 9:11 ESV] 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--

Here is the NLT translation. It uses the word "chooses".

[Rom 9:11 NLT] 11 But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes;
[Rom 9:12 NLT] 12 he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, "Your older son will serve your younger son."

Nothing in Romans 9, or anywhere else in Scripture, suggests that this happened on its own and that God merely knew beforehand that it would occur as you are stating. If you know of a passage that explicitly says it happened by random chance, then provide it; otherwise, you are reading a meaning into the verse that is not there. To understand what this means in relation to the gospel, it helps to step back and consider the full biblical account of Jacob and Esau and how God used them. They served as symbols of key spiritual truths about salvation, especially that salvation comes by God’s choice and grace or not at all. They could not have served that purpose if Genesis 25:23 and Romans 9:11 were the result of random chance—unless the whole gospel itself is also by chance. Instead, they had a greater symbolic purpose in the gospel and were deliberately used by God in that way for that reason.

 

[Roger316]

I agree, if God the Father and Christ did not control events, people and the timing-- how have we gotten this far?
Do you believe Judas just happen to show up at the right moment in time, that Christ did not know he was the one that would turn Him in and fulfill every single prophecy exactly?

Here is a thought: unless God has not stopped man from destroying himself, I do not understand how else we are still here. for 6000 years all we have done is kill each other

We close our eyes and remember the good.

 

[lrs68]

Do you understand what God's election means?

eklogē (Key)

1. the act of picking out, choosing
   1. of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
   2. the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2. a thing or person chosen
   1. of persons: God's elect

[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

[Rom 9:11- 12 NIV]
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand:
12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

[Rom 9:11 ESV] 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--

Here is the NLT translation. It uses the word "chooses".

[Rom 9:11 NLT] 11 But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes;
[Rom 9:12 NLT] 12 he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, "Your older son will serve your younger son."

Nothing in Romans 9, or anywhere else in Scripture, suggests that this happened on its own and that God merely knew beforehand that it would occur as you are stating. If you know of a passage that explicitly says it happened by random chance, then provide it; otherwise, you are reading a meaning into the verse that is not there. To understand what this means in relation to the gospel, it helps to step back and consider the full biblical account of Jacob and Esau and how God used them. They served as symbols of key spiritual truths about salvation, especially that salvation comes by God’s choice and grace or not at all. They could not have served that purpose if Genesis 25:23 and Romans 9:11 were the result of random chance—unless the whole gospel itself is also by chance. Instead, they had a greater symbolic purpose in the gospel and were deliberately used by God in that way for that reason.

Actually God Elected Yeshua to be how Believers are Saved before the world.

If there had been no Election of Who would secure Salvation then there would be no one ever saved.

 

[memberofthebride]

Actually God Elected Yeshua to be how Believers are Saved before the world.

If there had been no Election of Who would secure Salvation then there would be no one ever saved.

the WORD was not elected, He willingly agreed to become our Passover!

 

[rogerg]

Actually God Elected Yeshua to be how Believers are Saved before the world.

If there had been no Election of Who would secure Salvation then there would be no one ever saved.

So, we're done with Rom 9:11 -12 and I'm out.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

To have first become saved is the requirement in order for the preaching of the cross to not be perceived as foolishness and to be realized as the power of God. True belief comes only as a gift from God as a result of salvation not before salvation, because prior to salvation the gospel is foolishness to them (1Co 1:18) - only to those saved, is the gospel understood as the power of God.

[1Co 1:2 KJV] 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

[1Co 1:17 KJV] 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[1Co 1:20 KJV] 20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
[1Co 1:21 KJV] 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That it pleases Him to save those who believe is evident.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the WORD was not elected, He willingly agreed to become our Passover!

The Lord Jesus Christ was/is/always will be the Elect ...

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

.

 

[rogerg]

That it pleases Him to save those who believe is evident.

I see it differently - that those He has saved truly believe, not the reverse.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

I see it differently - that those He has saved truly believe, not the reverse.

Doesn't preaching God's soverignty require one to acknowledge the truth of every inspired Scripture, especially those which give us insight into His decisionmaking? In the case of 1 Corinthians 1:21, God's peasure is stated to be in saving those who believe. And the grammar makes it clear that "those who believe" are the direct objects of His action "to save". The grammar prevents a "reverse" understanding (i.e., that "to believe" is the result of "being saved").

 

[GWH]

Do you understand what God's election means?

eklogē (Key)

1. the act of picking out, choosing
   1. of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
   2. the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2. a thing or person chosen
   1. of persons: God's elect

[Rom 9:11 KJV] 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

[Rom 9:11- 12 NIV]
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand:
12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

[Rom 9:11 ESV] 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--

Here is the NLT translation. It uses the word "chooses".

[Rom 9:11 NLT] 11 But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes;
[Rom 9:12 NLT] 12 he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, "Your older son will serve your younger son."

Nothing in Romans 9, or anywhere else in Scripture, suggests that this happened on its own and that God merely knew beforehand that it would occur as you are stating. If you know of a passage that explicitly says it happened by random chance, then provide it; otherwise, you are reading a meaning into the verse that is not there. To understand what this means in relation to the gospel, it helps to step back and consider the full biblical account of Jacob and Esau and how God used them. They served as symbols of key spiritual truths about salvation, especially that salvation comes by God’s choice and grace or not at all. They could not have served that purpose if Genesis 25:23 and Romans 9:11 were the result of random chance—unless the whole gospel itself is also by chance. Instead, they had a greater symbolic purpose in the gospel and were deliberately used by God in that way for that reason.

God chose Jacob to produce Israel as the heritage of Messiah for the salvation of Esau and his descendants.

 

[lrs68]

the WORD was not elected, He willingly agreed to become our Passover!

I'm saying the method of Salvation was Elected and Ephesians chapter 1 explicitly tells us we are IN HIM! The plan of Salvation and how Salvation would happen was Elected before the foundation of the world.

 

[memberofthebride]

The Lord Jesus Christ was/is/always will be the Elect ...

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

.

God chose Jacob to produce Israel as the heritage of Messiah for the salvation of Esau and his descendants.

are you aware of Obadiah, a minor prophet?

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble,
and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be [any] remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken [it].

Christ, at his return, will end the line of Esau, for ever