Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[memberofthebride]

So it's a crap shoot. Maybe it's enough, maybe it's not. Your God is too small.

night, it is not by my will or power or mind, I can do nothing, eternal life is a free unearned gift.
I am just a human being with human nature, If the Father had not called me I would not be here or alive
but living in this world run by Satan, one can only endure.
i am all most done with my 9th decade -- the evil I have seen, the pain and suffering!!!

and seeing what these folks on this site believe --
it can only get worse and It will.

 

[memberofthebride]

I am learning why the time of the End is coming and it must come. the confusion is spreading fast..

I was very tired when this was written, sorry --- I fully understand eternal life is a free unearned Gift, but that does not mean we are not required to follow rules, the ONE Way of Righteousness.

when called we must repent from transgressing the Commandments , but most today want that to mean the need to obey the commandments is over.

 

[GWH]

I already know that so one must be in a saved state or condition, and its passive voice, they are being saved, the cross is the power of God only to them being saved.

Being saved is a present process (lifelong) that began in the past (at conversion) and will continue (with maturation/sanctification) until death/resurrection.

 

[GWH]

I was very tired when this was written, sorry --- I fully understand eternal life is a free unearned Gift, but that does not mean we are not required to follow rules, the ONE Way of Righteousness.

when called we must repent from transgressing the Commandments , but most today want that to mean the need to obey the commandments is over.

The way you stated it is self-contradictory.
The harmonized way is "salvation is an unearned gift/offer that is opened/received via God's non-meritorious condition of faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord" (Eph. 2:8-9, Acts 16:31, Rom. 10:9, John 3:16, 6:29).

 

[memberofthebride]

The way you stated it is self-contradictory.
The harmonized way is "salvation is an unearned gift/offer that is opened/received via God's non-meritorious condition of faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord" (Eph. 2:8-9, Acts 16:31, Rom. 10:9, John 3:16, 6:29).

why then did Christ tell His Disciples to obey the Torah?

GWT
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,
2"The scribes and the Pharisees teach with Moses' authority.
3 So be careful to do everything they tell you. But don't follow their example, because they don't practice what they preach

Matthew 23 KJV
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do;
but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

What has been a real eye opener for me on this site
almost all can not understand why God gave us His Torah, hard, evil, harsh they say, no one can do them

God want us to dwell together in unity -- not conflict, not wars, but we refuse
The Torah is God way to unity -- no conflicts, no wars and we refuse.
for 6000 years we have been Waring and killing each other
if the world keep all 10 -- we would have what we call utopia -- but we refuse

 

[memberofthebride]

The way you stated it is self-contradictory.
The harmonized way is "salvation is an unearned gift/offer that is opened/received via God's non-meritorious condition of faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord" (Eph. 2:8-9, Acts 16:31, Rom. 10:9, John 3:16, 6:29).

Why do you leave out the Good News Jesus Christ preached?
"Repent" for the government of God is at hand.
How does a government rule, with laws, which Christ is stating you must stop transgressing
That is a condition needed, required before receiving the non-meritorious gift of eternal life
John the Baptist preached repentance,
Paul preached repentance
to day it is not a requirement, just believe and grab 'grace', which means just believe.

nope, I will obey my Passover.

 

[brightfame52]

Being saved is a present process (lifelong) that began in the past (at conversion) and will continue (with maturation/sanctification) until death/resurrection.

One has to be in a saved condition for the cross is the power of God, the only other alternative is the preaching comes to you while in a perishing or lost condition, in that case its foolishness

 

[Roger316]

Yes, eventually all of the elect know the Lord, but they learn it individually after each becomes born again and they continue to learn until the end of their lives, or the end of the world, whichever comes first. It is called progressive sanctification. No one immediately learns everything at the instant of salvation nor a selected group all at once. Jer 31:34 states that all will know Him but not that all will know Him instantly at the same time - just that that knowledge will happen, not when it will happen. And as I mentioned about God's divorce of Israel, it will not happen to the earthly Jews simply because they are of earthly Israel - only elect Jews, as with all of the elect - will come to truly know the Lord.

We both agree that God is saving his elect individuals and that his elect come from every tribe, nation, tongue etc. But consider the objection being raised by his opponents.

If the question is, "What about the Jews, then your answer is correct in my opinion. But Paul is answering a different objection. He is answering the question: "What about Israel?" God made promises to them collectively as a covenant people.

It would be like asking, "What about the Smiths?" We would say that there are God's Elect among the Smith family. But what about the United States, where the Smith family lives? Did God ever make a promise to the United States as a covenant people? No. So the Gospel isn't defeated if God didn't save the United States.

But Paul acknowledges that God made a promise to Israel. And if God fails to keep his promise to her, then his word would fail.

 

[memberofthebride]

One has to be in a saved condition for the cross is the power of God, the only other alternative is the preaching comes to you while in a perishing or lost condition, in that case its foolishness

So sad!
I wish God had more power, He has to find someone in a "saved condition" before He can save them????

It is estimated that 100 billion or more have lived over the last 6000 years.
the Father and Jesus Christ will give every last one of the 100 billion their one opportunity for eternal life
Yes some will refuse to repent and will be cast into the Lake of Fire
but Christ and the Father are not willing that any be lost.

this is not the only day eternal life will be offered, the 6000 years are for the First Fruits, the few, the Bride of Christ.
the Many will be given their one opportunity after the 1000 years.

Explain death at birth or at one or 2; explain the two atom bombs dropped on Japan that incinerated children
the holes in doctrines held by the churches is huge, the moon can past through.

 

[GWH]

why then did Christ tell His Disciples to obey the Torah?

GWT
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,
2"The scribes and the Pharisees teach with Moses' authority.
3 So be careful to do everything they tell you. But don't follow their example, because they don't practice what they preach

Matthew 23 KJV
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do;
but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

What has been a real eye opener for me on this site
almost all can not understand why God gave us His Torah, hard, evil, harsh they say, no one can do them

God want us to dwell together in unity -- not conflict, not wars, but we refuse
The Torah is God way to unity -- no conflicts, no wars and we refuse.
for 6000 years we have been Waring and killing each other
if the world keep all 10 -- we would have what we call utopia -- but we refuse

God gave the Torah Law to teach souls their sinfulness and prepare the way for the Gospel of Christ (Gal. 3:23-25),
who taught the Twelve to obey God's eternal moral law of love (Matt. 5:20, 22:37-40, John 13:35).
Unity will be achieved when your eyes are opened to these truths (John 17:20-23).

 

[GWH]

Why do you leave out the Good News Jesus Christ preached?
"Repent" for the government of God is at hand.
How does a government rule, with laws, which Christ is stating you must stop transgressing
That is a condition needed, required before receiving the non-meritorious gift of eternal life
John the Baptist preached repentance,
Paul preached repentance
to day it is not a requirement, just believe and grab 'grace', which means just believe.

nope, I will obey my Passover.

Repentance includes superseding Judaism with the Gospel JC preached (Gal. 3:23-25),
which was to obey/cooperate with GW/HS in reflecting divine love to the world
(Matt. 5:14-16, 20, 22:37-40, John 13:35). May your eyes be opened to this Gospel Truth (John 17:20-23).

 

[brightfame52]

So sad!
I wish God had more power, He has to find someone in a "saved condition" before He can save them????

Senseless comment

 

[memberofthebride]

Repentance includes superseding Judaism with the Gospel JC preached (Gal. 3:23-25),
which was to obey/cooperate with GW/HS in reflecting divine love to the world
(Matt. 5:14-16, 20, 22:37-40, John 13:35). May your eyes be opened to this Gospel Truth (John 17:20-23).

show me where Christ said repentance supersedes the Torah, voids the Torah??

if the Torah is void why is Christ returning IN FURY to put to death 90% of the humans on earth?

No Torah, no sin

 

[memberofthebride]

Senseless comment

I did not say that senseless comment, you did!

Christ came to save sinners --- 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:

for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; NOT THE TORAH and in him is no sin.

you will believe as you do until the time of the END which is almost upon us.

The Words of Christ are very clear but Satan has blinded all, but those The Father is calling, the few!

 

[rogerg]

We both agree that God is saving his elect individuals and that his elect come from every tribe, nation, tongue etc. But consider the objection being raised by his opponents.

If the question is, "What about the Jews, then your answer is correct in my opinion. But Paul is answering a different objection. He is answering the question: "What about Israel?" God made promises to them collectively as a covenant people.

It would be like asking, "What about the Smiths?" We would say that there are God's Elect among the Smith family. But what about the United States, where the Smith family lives? Did God ever make a promise to the United States as a covenant people? No. So the Gospel isn't defeated if God didn't save the United States.

But Paul acknowledges that God made a promise to Israel. And if God fails to keep his promise to her, then his word would fail.

Not sure if these verses will clarify it for you but they do so for me (remember, throughout Scripture, God also calls the true church, Israel, and the elect, Jews, because that Israel has become the true Israel, and those people, the true jews, so it is easy confuse one with the other).
If any earthly Jew were saved simply because of their earthly lineage, that would imply two distinct plans of salvation, yet Scripture speaks of only one path: election and salvation through Christ alone. Therefore, those who become saved become saved because they are among the elect, not because they belong to an earthly nation. Again, God's divorce of the earthly nation of Israel precludes that possibility from ever occurring.

In 1 Pe 2:9, we are told the elect are "an holy nation"; it is singular, so there can only be one "holy nation", not two.
In 1 Pe 2:10., we are told the elect are "the people of God"; the "the" in it is also means singular and so by it, we are informed there is only one people of God, not two, and those people are the elect alone.

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

In 1Pe 1:2, we see the people that God is referring to in 1Pe 2:9-10, are the elect, not earthly Israel.

[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

In Rom 11:14, God through Paul, informs that only "some" of the Jews will be saved. If Jews are to be saved because they are of Israel, then, logically speaking, ALL Jews who ever lived must become saved just not some of them, otherwise, there must be something else at work to save only the part that will be saved.

[Rom 11:14 KJV] 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

We see in Jer 3:8 that God divorced the earthly nation of Israel. Once divorced, it became impossible for Israel as a nation - and therefore its people - to be the recipients of God's special blessings on that basis.

[Jer 3:8 KJV]
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 

[GWH]

show me where Christ said repentance supersedes the Torah, voids the Torah??

if the Torah is void why is Christ returning IN FURY to put to death 90% of the humans on earth?

No Torah, no sin

Who blinds you to the Scripture I cited? (Gal. 3:23-25) I would add Heb. 7:11-10:1, which together indicate that the Torah's Levitical laws are voided/superseded, because they accomplished the purpose of separating Israel from the rest of humanity until the advent of Messiah's Gospel.

Christ is returning in love to save potentially 100% of humanity (1Tim. 2:3-4), if they repent and believe the Gospel (Matt. 4:12, 7:7, John 3:16, 6:29, Rom. 3:21-5:1), which is to obey/cooperate with GW/HS in reflecting divine love to the world (Matt. 5:14-16, 20, 22:37-40, John 13:35).

Those who hate/reject God's love reap their own hatred.

 

[Roger316]

Not sure if these verses will clarify it for you but they do so for me (remember, throughout Scripture, God also calls the true church, Israel, and the elect, Jews, because that Israel has become the true Israel, and those people, the true jews, so it is easy confuse one with the other).
If any earthly Jew were saved simply because of their earthly lineage, that would imply two distinct plans of salvation, yet Scripture speaks of only one path: election and salvation through Christ alone. Therefore, those who become saved become saved because they are among the elect, not because they belong to an earthly nation. Again, God's divorce of the earthly nation of Israel precludes that possibility from ever occurring.

In 1 Pe 2:9, we are told the elect are "an holy nation"; it is singular, so there can only be one "holy nation", not two.
In 1 Pe 2:10., we are told the elect are "the people of God"; the "the" in it is also means singular and so by it, we are informed there is only one people of God, not two, and those people are the elect alone.

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

In 1Pe 1:2, we see the people that God is referring to in 1Pe 2:9-10, are the elect, not earthly Israel.

[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

In Rom 11:14, God through Paul, informs that only "some" of the Jews will be saved. If Jews are to be saved because they are of Israel, then, logically speaking, ALL Jews who ever lived must become saved just not some of them, otherwise, there must be something else at work to save only the part that will be saved.

[Rom 11:14 KJV] 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.

We see in Jer 3:8 that God divorced the earthly nation of Israel. Once divorced, it became impossible for Israel as a nation - and therefore its people - to be the recipients of God's special blessings on that basis.

[Jer 3:8 KJV]
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Again, we are talking about God's promise to a particular family line, not a true church, true Jew, or true Israel.

 

[Roger316]

show me where Christ said repentance supersedes the Torah, voids the Torah??

if the Torah is void why is Christ returning IN FURY to put to death 90% of the humans on earth?

No Torah, no sin

his is not true. Paul argues that sin was in the world before the Torah was given.

 

[rogerg]

Again, we are talking about God's promise to a particular family line, not a true church, true Jew, or true Israel.

But the family line (your phrase) started with, and was through, Abraham and Isaac, not Esau. And as I posted yesterday, the elect, and only the elect, are that spiritual family line, his physical seed are not his spiritual line. Otherwise, all of Abraham's seed - all of the Jews - would have to become saved because they would be in his family line, but they won't be.

[Gal 3:28-29 KJV]
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[Rom 9:7-8 KJV]
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[memberofthebride]

his is not true. Paul argues that sin was in the world before the Torah was given.

you mean before the Torah was included in the Covenant as our "Consideration"?

how then did Abraham keep the Torah?

Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Look it up #8451 Torah is the word "law"

the commandments and statutes are in the Torah
and before Moses went up on the mountain to be given the Covenant, nope the Torah is eternal.

27Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30So the people rested on the seventh day.