Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[JustThinking]

Jesus did not command Sabbath keeping in the New Covenant.

Once again, please read those verses I provided… or not. The thanks.

 

[Magenta]

Once again, please read those verses I provided… or not. The thanks.

Old covenant verses that were applicable to people under a different
covenant? Why? I am under the new covenant. Are you not?

 

[JustThinking]

Check this out.... https://christianity.stackexchange....addition-to-passover-when-jesus-was-crucified

Thank you and I believe you are basing your opinion on the Mr. Graham and / or Mr. Butterworth's comments to Ms. Leslie's original posting. I read their arguments, which disagree with Ms. Leslie's, and I find they could not tie in with the other verses in the NT that describe the time of His crucifixion. I do believe they have determined firs, that the 3 days must be 24 hours each, and they then walked the events backwards to a Wednesday start date. Yes, there were two Sabbaths, but they were not on consecutive days or “back to back,” if you will. The two Sabbaths fell on the same day as I mentioned to you earlier. Please consider:

Mark plainly identifies the crucifixion day as the day before the Sabbath:

“Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath…” Mark 15:42​

Mark does not leave the “Preparation Day” vague. He defines it: “the day before the Sabbath.” In normal Jewish reckoning, that is Friday before sundown.

Luke says the same thing:

“That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.”
Luke 23:54

Then Luke adds:

“They returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.”
Luke 23:56​

That phrase “according to the commandment” is very important. It points naturally to the weekly seventh-day Sabbath, not merely a ceremonial festival rest day. Luke is telling us that after Jesus died, the women observed the Sabbath commandment.

John then explains why that Sabbath was especially significant:

“Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, for that Sabbath was a high day…” John 19:31​

John does not say there were two Sabbaths. He says “that Sabbath” was a high day. In other words, the Sabbath immediately following the preparation day was not an ordinary weekly Sabbath only; it was a weekly Sabbath carrying festival significance.

The Wednesday crucifixion theory usually exists to force Matthew 12:40 into three full 24-hour periods:

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”​

But that theory creates a major problem with Luke 24. On resurrection Sunday, the two disciples on the road to Emmaus say:

“Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened.” Luke 24:21​

They are speaking on Sunday. If Jesus had been crucified on Wednesday, Sunday would not naturally be “the third day since these things happened.” It would push the count too far. But if Jesus died Friday, rested Sabbath, and rose Sunday, then Sunday is exactly “the third day” by Jewish inclusive reckoning:

Friday — day one
Sabbath — day two
Sunday — day three​

This is also how Jesus repeatedly described His resurrection:

“The Son of Man… shall be killed, and the third day he shall be raised up.”
Matthew 17:22–23​

​

“They will kill him, and the third day he will be raised up.”
Matthew 20:19​

​

“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day.”
Luke 24:46​

The Gospel emphasis is not “after exactly seventy-two hours.” The repeated language is “on the third day.”

Even Matthew shows that “after three days” and “until the third day” were understood interchangeably. The chief priests said:

“Sir, we remember what that deceiver said while he was still alive: ‘After three days I will rise again.’ Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day…”
Matthew 27:63–64.​

Notice that they did not ask Pilate to secure the tomb until the fourth day. They understood “after three days” to mean by the third day, not after a full seventy-two hours had passed.

Thus, Jesus died on Preparation Day, Friday, before sundown. The Sabbath began at sundown. That Sabbath was both the weekly Sabbath and a high Sabbath because it fell within the Passover/Unleavened Bread festival setting. Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath, fulfilling even in death the pattern of rest, and He rose early on the first day of the week, Sunday, the third day.

I sincerely hope this provides you with the necessary support for the interpretation that the weekly Sabbath and the Passover Sabbath fell on the same day and all previous and subsequent events to the cross are in agreement. God bless.

 

[JustThinking]

Old covenant verses that were applicable to people under a different
covenant? Why? I am under the new covenant. Are you not?

Okay.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, I would not rely on our ability to determine when Herod died or the records of that period. Some are capable of researching the dates and times of events in our history but even they do not come to a consensus. Each has their own approach, methods and procedures to perform.

But there is or seems to be one set of facts (hopefully), that might give us a very reasonable and sound understanding… and of course, God would have purposely designed these events so we could determine the timing of the most important event in man’s history. That the Passover Sabbath that comes once a year would coincide with the weekly Sabbath. And since the weekly Sabbath is always the 7th day of the week, that seems to lick things down - for me anyway. And if He died the day before the Sabbath, then it would be Friday the 6th day of the week and also He would be resurrected on the 1st day of the week or Sunday.

Does this seem reasonable to you? Thanks.

Why do you feel that the Passover Sabbath (Nisan 15) must coincide with the weekly Sabbath?

Chapter and verses if it is not a problem? I would be very interested in your version of events. Thank you in advance…….

I do rely on certain facts that are irrevocable in my opinion…..of course.

We know that Yeshua was 30 when He began His ministry which we know lasted 3 1/2 years.. We know Herod died in 4 b c from very reliable historical sources. The Naval Observatory is extremely reliable based on historical lunar movements which cannot be misunderstood. And we know from of all the nearby yearly Passover dates the observatory presents to us (web site data if requested) are proof that only 28 b c could possibly be the year of the crucifixion/ resurrection.

 

[Hawkeye]

LOL Sabbath keeping is never given as a commandment in the NT, so much for being reminded.

In fact it is not possible to keep the Sabbath as it was commanded of Hebrews/Jews.

(Exodus 20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

This is called a “reminder” when The Father asked us to “remember” it…..

 

[JustThinking]

Why do you feel that the Passover Sabbath (Nisan 15) must coincide with the weekly Sabbath?

Chapter and verses if it is not a problem? I would be very interested in your version of events. Thank you in advance…….

I do rely on certain facts that are irrevocable in my opinion…..of course.

We know that Yeshua was 30 when He began His ministry which we know lasted 3 1/2 years.. We know Herod died in 4 b c from very reliable historical sources. The Naval Observatory is extremely reliable based on historical lunar movements which cannot be misunderstood. And we know from of all the nearby yearly Passover dates the observatory presents to us (web site data if requested) are proof that only 28 b c could possibly be the year of the crucifixion/ resurrection.

I would respectfully ask that you would please read the fairly detailed response found in post #1183. It, in my opinion, is clear enough to support the claim that both the ceremonial Sabbath took place on the weekly Sabbath. Read the comments from Mark, Luke, Matthew, John and most importantly Jesus. See how the "road to Emmanus" confirms this, and see how the event between the chief priests and the Romans also fits nicely into the timeline. Thanks. Now, is Scripture greater than a study from the Naval Observatory?

 

[Magenta]

(Exodus 20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

This is called a “reminder” when The Father asked us to “remember” it…..

Yeah old testament, groovy. It is obsolete. I am a new covenant Christian. Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

 

[JustThinking]

Why do you feel that the Passover Sabbath (Nisan 15) must coincide with the weekly Sabbath?

Chapter and verses if it is not a problem? I would be very interested in your version of events. Thank you in advance…….

I do rely on certain facts that are irrevocable in my opinion…..of course.

We know that Yeshua was 30 when He began His ministry which we know lasted 3 1/2 years.. We know Herod died in 4 b c from very reliable historical sources. The Naval Observatory is extremely reliable based on historical lunar movements which cannot be misunderstood. And we know from of all the nearby yearly Passover dates the observatory presents to us (web site data if requested) are proof that only 28 b c could possibly be the year of the crucifixion/ resurrection.

If you do not mind, I was just thinking about this issue and I would also ask that you consider that the weekly Sabbath and the Passover Sabbath took place on the same day - this has to be because it will tie into the day of Pentecost, if and only if they were both on the same day.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yeah old testament, groovy. It is obsolete. I am a new covenant Christian. Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

I have never heard that phrase, “It is obsolete” regarding the Word of our Father. I would hope someday you might reconsider that position……

 

[Magenta]

I have never heard that phrase, “It is obsolete” regarding the Word of our Father. I would hope someday you might reconsider that position……

I hope some day you read the Bible. By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first
one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Hebrews 8 v 13

 

[Genez]

Thank you and I believe you are basing your opinion on the Mr. Graham and / or Mr. Butterworth's comments to Ms. Leslie's original posting. I read their arguments, which disagree with Ms. Leslie's, and I find they could not tie in with the other verses in the NT that describe the time of His crucifixion. I do believe they have determined firs, that the 3 days must be 24 hours each, and they then walked the events backwards to a Wednesday start date. Yes, there were two Sabbaths, but they were not on consecutive days or “back to back,” if you will. The two Sabbaths fell on the same day as I mentioned to you earlier. Please consider:

Mark plainly identifies the crucifixion day as the day before the Sabbath:

“Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath…” Mark 15:42​

Mark does not leave the “Preparation Day” vague. He defines it: “the day before the Sabbath.” In normal Jewish reckoning, that is Friday before sundown.

Luke says the same thing:

“That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.”
Luke 23:54

Then Luke adds:

“They returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.”​

Luke 23:56​

That phrase “according to the commandment” is very important. It points naturally to the weekly seventh-day Sabbath, not merely a ceremonial festival rest day. Luke is telling us that after Jesus died, the women observed the Sabbath commandment.

John then explains why that Sabbath was especially significant:

“Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, for that Sabbath was a high day…” John 19:31​

John does not say there were two Sabbaths. He says “that Sabbath” was a high day. In other words, the Sabbath immediately following the preparation day was not an ordinary weekly Sabbath only; it was a weekly Sabbath carrying festival significance.

The Wednesday crucifixion theory usually exists to force Matthew 12:40 into three full 24-hour periods:

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”​

But that theory creates a major problem with Luke 24. On resurrection Sunday, the two disciples on the road to Emmaus say:

“Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened.” Luke 24:21​

They are speaking on Sunday. If Jesus had been crucified on Wednesday, Sunday would not naturally be “the third day since these things happened.” It would push the count too far. But if Jesus died Friday, rested Sabbath, and rose Sunday, then Sunday is exactly “the third day” by Jewish inclusive reckoning:

Friday — day one​

Sabbath — day two​

Sunday — day three​

This is also how Jesus repeatedly described His resurrection:

“The Son of Man… shall be killed, and the third day he shall be raised up.”​

Matthew 17:22–23​

​

“They will kill him, and the third day he will be raised up.”​

Matthew 20:19​

​

“Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day.”​

Luke 24:46​

The Gospel emphasis is not “after exactly seventy-two hours.” The repeated language is “on the third day.”

Even Matthew shows that “after three days” and “until the third day” were understood interchangeably. The chief priests said:

“Sir, we remember what that deceiver said while he was still alive: ‘After three days I will rise again.’ Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day…”​

Matthew 27:63–64.​

Notice that they did not ask Pilate to secure the tomb until the fourth day. They understood “after three days” to mean by the third day, not after a full seventy-two hours had passed.

Thus, Jesus died on Preparation Day, Friday, before sundown. The Sabbath began at sundown. That Sabbath was both the weekly Sabbath and a high Sabbath because it fell within the Passover/Unleavened Bread festival setting. Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath, fulfilling even in death the pattern of rest, and He rose early on the first day of the week, Sunday, the third day.

I sincerely hope this provides you with the necessary support for the interpretation that the weekly Sabbath and the Passover Sabbath fell on the same day and all previous and subsequent events to the cross are in agreement. God bless.

Every sabbath had a preparation day. Both the regular sabbath, and for the special sabbaths.
They had to prepare because they could not do labor on the sabbath. Some prepared food in advance, etc.

Another thing to consider...

The Jews could define "day" as simply a time of light. Night, was a time of darkness.
If Jesus died a few hours before sunset? That time he died in, the Jews could consider a day.

God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” ​

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. Gen 1:5​

​

Jesus did not say three full days. He simply said three days and three nights.

 

[JustThinking]

Every sabbath had a preparation day. Both the regular sabbath, and for the special sabbaths.
They had to prepare because they could not do labor on the sabbath. Some prepared food in advance, etc.

Another thing to consider...

The Jews could define "day" as simply a time of light. Night, was a time of darkness.
If Jesus died a few hours before sunset? That time he died in, the Jews could consider a day.

God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” ​

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. Gen 1:5​

​

Jesus did not say three full days. He simply said three days and three nights.

Well, apparently, all the statements I made were not sufficient for you..... I think I will move on - there is nothing more I could provide for this discussion. Thanks.

 

[Genez]

(Exodus 20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

This is called a “reminder” when The Father asked us to “remember” it…..

The Jerusalem council had this command for the new Gentile believers...

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who ​

are turning to God. Instead, we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food ​

polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.​

​

Acts 15:19-20​

Note...
The new Gentile believers were never commanded to keep the sabbath.

 

[Genez]

Well, apparently, all the statements I made were not sufficient for you..... I think I will move on - there is nothing more I could provide for this discussion. Thanks.

Apparently, the points I made concerning the Jewish background for what was used to define things was not accepted by you.

Mark plainly identifies the crucifixion day as the day before the Sabbath:

“Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath…” Mark 15:42​

He was crucified before a Special sabbath. Not simply a regular Saturday sabbath.

Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. ​

Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, ​

they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down."​

​

John 19:31​

 

[JustThinking]

Apparently, the points I made concerning the Jewish background for what was used to define things was not accepted by you.


He was crucified before a Special sabbath. Not simply a regular Saturday sabbath.

Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. ​

Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, ​

they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down."​

​

John 19:31​

Okay.

 

[Hawkeye]

If you do not mind, I was just thinking about this issue and I would also ask that you consider that the weekly Sabbath and the Passover Sabbath took place on the same day - this has to be because it will tie into the day of Pentecost, if and only if they were both on the same day.

Since I first became drawn to the Word of our Father I have often pondered many hard to explain, difficult to understand and seemingly total contradictory positions presented to us by traditional biblical knowledge.. And eventually I came to understand that the big problem in all of this is “tradition” itself.

One of the biggest questions, of course has always been “Passion Week” chronology. If I’ve heard one explanation from a respected source…..I’ve heard 15 more from others…..all seemingly thinking they have the answer.

Years ago I decided to start using logic, literal translations and file tradition…..you know where. It has been eye opening. The Church it seems has gone out of its way to confuse, addle and simply lie about the historical truth.

I’m very new to this website and am just settling in but you’ll find that I generally will offer inspired passages to bolster my argument…..and sometimes world history that is usually confirmed by more than one other source. I still find that many times this will still not seem to convince folks. I understand this to be very normal by some caught up in their traditions.

I have been wrong many times in the past and understand this is all a learning process….so forgive me if I appear to be adamant about certain things at times because I’m beginning to get set in my ways.

As far as the two Sabbaths existing on the same day I find it impossible as the 28 a.d. calendar of the month of Nisan will show Passover prep beginning on Tuesday night time/ Wednesday daylight (Nisan 14). The High Sabbath (the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Wednesday night time/ Thursday daylight (Nisan 15). The next day Nisan 16 was Thursday night time/ Friday daylight and finally Nisan 17 Sabbath night time/ Sabbath daylight.

This is constructed because the lunar calculations by the US Naval Observatory shows only 28 A.D. as the only viable year for the crucifixion because of the death of Herod (4 b.c.) and the age of Yeshua at the time of this Passover and crucifixion was 33…..meaning He was born in 5 b.c. one year before Herod’s death. There are no other Passover dates with in ten years before and after 28 a.d. that will fit these parameters.

To make it simple……Herod died in 4 b.c. (Historically correct) validated by other sources. Yeshua had to have been born prior to Herod’s death. From the timing in Matthew this would have been 5 b.c.

33 was age of Yeshua at death minus the 5 years indicated is (33 minus 5 equals 28). The calendar again for 28 a.d. shows Nisan 14 on Tuesday night time/Wednesday daylight…….the day the disciples appeared at the upper room after traveling from Bethany and were beginning to prepare the Passover (Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:8).

There is no zero year……..

 

[JustThinking]

Since I first became drawn to the Word of our Father I have often pondered many hard to explain, difficult to understand and seemingly total contradictory positions presented to us by traditional biblical knowledge.. And eventually I came to understand that the big problem in all of this is “tradition” itself.

One of the biggest questions, of course has always been “Passion Week” chronology. If I’ve heard one explanation from a respected source…..I’ve heard 15 more from others…..all seemingly thinking they have the answer.

Years ago I decided to start using logic, literal translations and file tradition…..you know where. It has been eye opening. The Church it seems has gone out of its way to confuse, addle and simply lie about the historical truth.

I’m very new to this website and am just settling in but you’ll find that I generally will offer inspired passages to bolster my argument…..and sometimes world history that is usually confirmed by more than one other source. I still find that many times this will still not seem to convince folks. I understand this to be very normal by some caught up in their traditions.

I have been wrong many times in the past and understand this is all a learning process….so forgive me if I appear to be adamant about certain things at times because I’m beginning to get set in my ways.

As far as the two Sabbaths existing on the same day I find it impossible as the 28 a.d. calendar of the month of Nisan will show Passover prep beginning on Tuesday night time/ Wednesday daylight (Nisan 14). The High Sabbath (the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Wednesday night time/ Thursday daylight (Nisan 15). The next day Nisan 16 was Thursday night time/ Friday daylight and finally Nisan 17 Sabbath night time/ Sabbath daylight.

This is constructed because the lunar calculations by the US Naval Observatory shows only 28 A.D. as the only viable year for the crucifixion because of the death of Herod (4 b.c.) and the age of Yeshua at the time of this Passover and crucifixion was 33…..meaning He was born in 5 b.c. one year before Herod’s death. There are no other Passover dates with in ten years before and after 28 a.d. that will fit these parameters.

To make it simple……Herod died in 4 b.c. (Historically correct) validated by other sources. Yeshua had to have been born prior to Herod’s death. From the timing in Matthew this would have been 5 b.c.

33 was age of Yeshua at death minus the 5 years indicated is (33 minus 5 equals 28). The calendar again for 28 a.d. shows Nisan 14 on Tuesday night time/Wednesday daylight…….the day the disciples appeared at the upper room after traveling from Bethany and were beginning to prepare the Passover (Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:8).

There is no zero year……..

Thanks for your thoughts! Just for next thing, what if the start date is not 4 or 5 BC but 2 or 3 BC? What if the calendar they used is incorrect by 2 or 3 days - the calendar’s have been changed many times? There can be many “so what ifs” - and what were their assumptions or approaches in their calculations?

We don’t know exactly whether it was 5 BC or 2 BC or any of the other factors. But we do know from Scripture that the weekly Sabbath and the Passover Sabbath converged on the same day. And, the events subsequent to the cross would confirm the timing of the Passover day.

But thanks for the discussion! It”s all good! Best wishes.

 

[legion]

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that discusses the changing of God’s only holy day to another day. No one may change His holy day - regardless of their reasons.

The NT does mention that he Apostles met on the first day of the week, but that was because they had honored the Sabbath as usual each 7th day. This was never discussed, considered or adopted in any way. Do you think that particular mention of them gathering together was the ONLY time they had met together AFTER worshiping on the Sabbath? On that particular Sunday, they were discussing many things that would soon take place: funds to pay for their trips to other cities to preach the Good News, all of their logistical matters, they were separating themselves and planning their next moves.

But even if that did not take place the mere mentioning of them being gathered together after the Sabbath could not possibly rise to support / confirm / claim this showed the changing of THE ONLY HOLY DAY to the first day. Would you not expect there would be a very serious and lengthy discussion among the Apostles on that same day ? Not a word amongst any of them because no one could change or have any reason to try and change His holy day. Certainly Jesus would have mentioned it don’t you think?

I do agree this was not a “Catholic” decision since papal Rome did not come to full power until the early 6th century, however, they definitely / officially made / confirmed / decreed that Sunday worship was now the day of worship.

The first to change the Sabbath was indeed Constantine in the 4th century when it was so politically advantageous to do so. He would make Christianity officially legal in the Empire and he would consolidate or try to consolidates the Empire by bringing in hundreds of thousands, or even millions of pagans, who worshipped their gods on Sun Day into the Empire. It would be another 50 years when pagan Rome made the Empire officially Christian (not Catholic).

The Protestants nor the Catholics were mentioned, identified, etc., in the Apostolic period.


Have no idea what you are saying here. But it is saying what I think you mean, then this too is so wrong. The growing Gentiles Christian church was very successful in removing, persecuting and preventing Jews from staying within THEIR GROWING GENTILE CHURCH.



I have no idea where this comes from. Where in the NT does Jesus or His Apostles EVER teach the 10 Commandments are “done away with”? I thought Jesus told us to keep His commandments, and if you love Me, obey my commandments. There are more than a few verses where Jesus was SPECIFIC- no interpretation by man at a later date is necessary. No man made phrase like “they were nailed to the cross,” can eliminate His commands.

The Levitical ceremonial laws were indeed “fulfilled” by Jesus but God”s 10 (not 9) commandments represented the nature and character of God Himself along with being God’s laws. And remember, these were God’s laws and Jesus did not come to do away with or disobey His Father’s laws. He did fulfill them by being able to keep each and every one of them- ALL 10!





This is so wrong. Tell me, which of anyone of the 10 commandments are we allowed to break? Which one, anyone no longer reveals God’s character and nature. What Literal Verse tells us they are done away with? Did Jesus Himself tell us He would place the 10 commandments WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS? That is not abolishing them is it? Did He tell us He would send His Holy Spirit to reside WITHIN each one of us to empower us to keep them? Why would that be necessary if they were done away with?

Are you saying that baptism (water baptism) and communion (Eucharist) is necessary for salvation? This is Catholicism, and works based.




Wow! Read Matthew 5:17, 19, Luke 4:16, Mark 2:27-28, Genesis 2:3 - the Sabbath was not created at Sinai or FOR Israel and it is NOT a “ceremonial law.” Luke 23:56 (post cross). Acts 17:2 by Paul after the cross. Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 (here Paul speaks to the Sabbath with the Gentle’s). Revelation 14:12, 12:17, James 2:10, 11. Hebrews 8:10.


See above .. this is not Scriptural and all.


Yes, Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws.


No, this makes no sense. Jesus specifically tells us to keep His commandments and the Holy Spirit will empower us to keep them for they now reside WITHIN US.


Where is this found in Scripture? See all the above verses to support keeping them. Can man make ANYTHING holy? Can we be so arrogant to claim we can change God’s laws and commandments? Can you find ANYTHING in Scripture that authorizes man to change His laws?


Your “recap” is sad. The Catholic Church and its leader (the little horn of Daniel 7, 8, 9 and 11 and who is also found in 2 Thessalonians 2, in a few verses in Revelation is the one you should point to for so many changes and corruption to God’s laws, commandments, practices. They preach a very, very different gisel even to claim infallibility, divinity, able to forgive sin, preach a different path to salvation that can only come through their church and their sacraments.

He has been revealed and prophesied by Daniel some 2600 years ago. And the Protestant group did “protest” against many of the Catholic churches practices and beliefs but they too kept some- Sunday is one of them .

There you have it you have very well drawn out the complete heresy for everyone to see.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that discusses the changing of God’s only holy day to another day. No one may change His holy day - regardless of their reasons.

The NT does mention that he Apostles met on the first day of the week, but that was because they had honored the Sabbath as usual each 7th day. This was never discussed, considered or adopted in any way. Do you think that particular mention of them gathering together was the ONLY time they had met together AFTER worshiping on the Sabbath? On that particular Sunday, they were discussing many things that would soon take place: funds to pay for their trips to other cities to preach the Good News, all of their logistical matters, they were separating themselves and planning their next moves.

But even if that did not take place the mere mentioning of them being gathered together after the Sabbath could not possibly rise to support / confirm / claim this showed the changing of THE ONLY HOLY DAY to the first day. Would you not expect there would be a very serious and lengthy discussion among the Apostles on that same day ? Not a word amongst any of them because no one could change or have any reason to try and change His holy day. Certainly Jesus would have mentioned it don’t you think?

I do agree this was not a “Catholic” decision since papal Rome did not come to full power until the early 6th century, however, they definitely / officially made / confirmed / decreed that Sunday worship was now the day of worship.

The first to change the Sabbath was indeed Constantine in the 4th century when it was so politically advantageous to do so. He would make Christianity officially legal in the Empire and he would consolidate or try to consolidates the Empire by bringing in hundreds of thousands, or even millions of pagans, who worshipped their gods on Sun Day into the Empire. It would be another 50 years when pagan Rome made the Empire officially Christian (not Catholic).

The Protestants nor the Catholics were mentioned, identified, etc., in the Apostolic period.


Have no idea what you are saying here. But it is saying what I think you mean, then this too is so wrong. The growing Gentiles Christian church was very successful in removing, persecuting and preventing Jews from staying within THEIR GROWING GENTILE CHURCH.



I have no idea where this comes from. .

And there you have it the majority of your complete heresy drawn out for everybody to see.

The problem with everything you're saying is it has nothing to do with Christianity in more to do with Judaism and by this it is painfully obvious that you do not understand the Mosaic law you do not understand the Old Testament you do not understand the New Testament and you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ on the cross nor do you understand the history of how Christianity got its doctrines in effect your theologically stupid.

The difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is I don't have to twist scripture to fit false presuppositions, I don't have to to deny about 40 verses discussing the end of the Mosaic law that Paul makes I also do not have to redefine various words to make my theology fit.

In effect I don't have to make up stories and then try to fit them into the text of the Bible. The belief that the Gentiles have anything to do with the Mosaic law has no basis in the old or new testament additionally to even think this if you actually read the Bible is laughable and honestly I wouldn't care if it wasn't so damaging the truth Christianity

I have successfully defended this elsewhere and I'm not going to go through it with another idiot

 

[JustThinking]

There you have it you have very well drawn out the complete heresy for everyone to see.

And there you have it the majority of your complete heresy drawn out for everybody to see.

The problem with everything you're saying is it has nothing to do with Christianity in more to do with Judaism and by this it is painfully obvious that you do not understand the Mosaic law you do not understand the Old Testament you do not understand the New Testament and you do not understand the work of Jesus Christ on the cross nor do you understand the history of how Christianity got its doctrines in effect your theologically stupid.

The difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is I don't have to twist scripture to fit false presuppositions, I don't have to to deny about 40 verses discussing the end of the Mosaic law that Paul makes I also do not have to redefine various words to make my theology fit.

In effect I don't have to make up stories and then try to fit them into the text of the Bible. The belief that the Gentiles have anything to do with the Mosaic law has no basis in the old or new testament additionally to even think this if you actually read the Bible is laughable and honestly I wouldn't care if it wasn't so damaging the truth Christianity

I have successfully defended this elsewhere and I'm not going to go through it with another idiot

Be very careful Legion, God might throw you into a herd of pigs…. Can you swim?