Oh well, scripture can mean anything when taken out of context, that is Reformed/Calvinist preferred method of interpretation.
And it all very systematic, but is still not supported by the overall teachings of scripture.
Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe
- Thread starter Jon777
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Oh well, scripture can mean anything when taken out of context, that is Reformed/Calvinist preferred method of interpretation.
And it all very systematic, but is still not supported by the overall teachings of scripture.
As usual for you, that makes no sense whatsoever.
Do you know the law of holes - that when you find yourself in one, quit digging.
MFWers believe the first and Tulipists freely choose to believe the latter unless they are totally depraved due to being brainwashed.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Yes, those God foreknew would choose to cooperate with His will for everyone to accept Jesus as Messiah He also preplanned that they would become completely loving like Christ.
The passage is written to a particular group of people in a particular time of persecution.
Nowhere in this passage is there any teaching that this is an unconditional election unto eternal life by God.
This idea is not found in the broader context of scripture either.
From Romans 5 through Romans 8, Paul is talking about walking by the Holy Spirit and living the Christian life in a way that pleases God.. which is the focus of much of his writings.
God loves all believers, Rom 8:28-30 is talking about the love of God directed towards those Christians who share in the sufferings of Christ faithfully those in Rome at the time.
Along with God’s promises for the blessings these believers will have in the future as a result of that suffering.
Ooh! Haven’t banged this drum in awhile.
We HATE the idea that God chooses whom He will save.
Why?
Because WE, think it’s somehow unfair using our human intellect.
But EVERYTHING we have and are come from God. Including our faith.
If our faith doesn’t come from God, then where does it come from?
I know, I know, “faith comes by hearing.”
But the “comes by” in that verse means “out of”.
Ephesians not only tells us our faith is a gift from God, but that our faith is ACTIVATED, or “quickened”.
So our faith that was given us by God, was drawn out and activated by the hearing of the Gospel.
That’s why SOME believe, and others reject, when they are presented with the Gospel.
And this is really the important point.
If you think it was YOU that believed, because you used your intellect to reason it out, or you think you are just a more moral person that was able to recognize your sin and failures, while those that reject Jesus are more immoral or not as intelligent as you, then YOU CAN BOAST!
You cannot get around that.
I’m perfectly fine saying I don’t know how God chooses or why, but I trust Him, and know it will become crystal clear when we receive our new bodies.
We HATE the idea that God chooses whom He will save.
Why?
Because WE, think it’s somehow unfair using our human intellect.
But EVERYTHING we have and are come from God. Including our faith.
If our faith doesn’t come from God, then where does it come from?
I know, I know, “faith comes by hearing.”
But the “comes by” in that verse means “out of”.
Ephesians not only tells us our faith is a gift from God, but that our faith is ACTIVATED, or “quickened”.
So our faith that was given us by God, was drawn out and activated by the hearing of the Gospel.
That’s why SOME believe, and others reject, when they are presented with the Gospel.
And this is really the important point.
If you think it was YOU that believed, because you used your intellect to reason it out, or you think you are just a more moral person that was able to recognize your sin and failures, while those that reject Jesus are more immoral or not as intelligent as you, then YOU CAN BOAST!
You cannot get around that.
I’m perfectly fine saying I don’t know how God chooses or why, but I trust Him, and know it will become crystal clear when we receive our new bodies.
You mean I am not as skilled as roger at taking a single Verse out of context and turning into whatever I want it to mean?
I agree
If Esau treasured his Birthright and Inheritance would he have lost it or had Pharaoh did as God asked would he not have followed the Hebrew peoples into the Sea and drowned?
I asked because I am rereading Psalms about David writing that man has the ability to choose to come to God.
So I asked chatgtp to verify that David did this. Here's the answer .
You are absolutely right. Throughout the Psalms, King David frequently writes about man’s ability—and invitation—to come into God's presence, seek Him, and draw near to Him.
So I asked chatgtp to verify that David did this. Here's the answer .
You are absolutely right. Throughout the Psalms, King David frequently writes about man’s ability—and invitation—to come into God's presence, seek Him, and draw near to Him.
Paul has a different view of reality. He raises the creator metaphor to suggest that God creates us moment to moment. In addition, he creates our story so that the final moments of our life follow logically from the beginning.