Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

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PennEd said:
Ooh! Haven’t banged this drum in awhile.

We HATE the idea that God chooses whom He will save.

Why?
Because WE, think it’s somehow unfair using our human intellect.

But EVERYTHING we have and are come from God. Including our faith.

If our faith doesn’t come from God, then where does it come from?

I know, I know, “faith comes by hearing.”

But the “comes by” in that verse means “out of”.

Ephesians not only tells us our faith is a gift from God, but that our faith is ACTIVATED, or “quickened”.

So our faith that was given us by God, was drawn out and activated by the hearing of the Gospel.

That’s why SOME believe, and others reject, when they are presented with the Gospel.

And this is really the important point.

If you think it was YOU that believed, because you used your intellect to reason it out, or you think you are just a more moral person that was able to recognize your sin and failures, while those that reject Jesus are more immoral or not as intelligent as you, then YOU CAN BOAST!

You cannot get around that.

I’m perfectly fine saying I don’t know how God chooses or why, but I trust Him, and know it will become crystal clear when we receive our new bodies.
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No matter how one views their stance it is just a whole lot of ways they collectively contradict
and outright deny what Scripture plainly articulates. There are those among them who would
rather blaspheme God than admit they are wrong so they can glorify themselves instead of Him.

 
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lrs68 said:
I asked because I am rereading Psalms about David writing that man has the ability to choose to come to God.
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Thats not true. David as a Child of Grace was always making his prayer request to God about the need of spiritual enablement realizing his own will was insufficient. Ps 19:13

13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

He knew of the blessedness to have been caused to approach God Ps 65:4

4 ;Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
 
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PennEd said:
Ooh! Haven’t banged this drum in awhile.

We HATE the idea that God chooses whom He will save.

Why?
Because WE, think it’s somehow unfair using our human intellect.

But EVERYTHING we have and are come from God. Including our faith.

If our faith doesn’t come from God, then where does it come from?

I know, I know, “faith comes by hearing.”

But the “comes by” in that verse means “out of”.

Ephesians not only tells us our faith is a gift from God, but that our faith is ACTIVATED, or “quickened”.

So our faith that was given us by God, was drawn out and activated by the hearing of the Gospel.

That’s why SOME believe, and others reject, when they are presented with the Gospel.

And this is really the important point.

If you think it was YOU that believed, because you used your intellect to reason it out, or you think you are just a more moral person that was able to recognize your sin and failures, while those that reject Jesus are more immoral or not as intelligent as you, then YOU CAN BOAST!

You cannot get around that.

I’m perfectly fine saying I don’t know how God chooses or why, but I trust Him, and know it will become crystal clear when we receive our new bodies.
Click to expand...

There is no excuse for being perfectly fine with not knowing/ignoring why God saves people
when the Scripture teaches that the reason is because they repent (Matt. 4:17), seek salvation
(Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6) and accept His gracious gift of forgiveness for those who believe (Eph. 2:8)
in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate (Acts 16:31).

All it takes is the willingness to harmonize GW!
 
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GWH said:
There is no excuse for being perfectly fine with not knowing/ignoring why God saves people
when the Scripture teaches that the reason is because they repent (Matt. 4:17), seek salvation
(Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6) and accept His gracious gift of forgiveness for those who believe (Eph. 2:8)
in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate (Acts 16:31).

All it takes is the willingness to harmonize GW!
Click to expand...

What must I do to be saved? And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house.

I'm not sure why Calvinists take away any responsible on man's part to respond to the preaching of the cross. The preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation. If God has already elected those who will be saved, then the preaching of the cross is foolishness. Calvinist: But it's the means by which an elect person will be saved even though they are already saved from the foundation of the world. Round and round we go...
 
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John146 said:
If I do not believe in limited atonement, I cannot be saved by God's grace? :rolleyes:
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One can always be saved by Grace if its Gods will , however if you dont believe in limited atonement, no you do not believe the Gospel. BTW its not possible to say I believe in Salvation by Grace and dont believe in Salvation by the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Its either by election of grace or by works !
 
John146 said:
What must I do to be saved? And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house.
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I would say the same thing. However it takes some explaining as to who the Lord Jesus Christ is, and what and how does He save, and who does He save according to the scriptures.
 
Ability to exercise choice is the foundation of all God’s dealings with mankind as documented in scripture.


Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.


Mark 1:15


And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.



Rev. 22:17

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let him that heareth say, “Come.” And let him that is athirst come; and whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely.
 
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John146 said:
Acts 16 is pretty clear.

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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The scriptures are clear, but Im talking to you. You not pretty clear
 
GWH said:
There is no excuse for being perfectly fine with not knowing/ignoring why God saves people
when the Scripture teaches that the reason is because they repent (Matt. 4:17), seek salvation
(Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6) and accept His gracious gift of forgiveness for those who believe (Eph. 2:8)
in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate (Acts 16:31).

All it takes is the willingness to harmonize GW!
Click to expand...
Repent of what?

The repentance that saves is a repentance of DEAD WORKS.

Through the faith that God gives us, we must recognize and repent from thinking we can achieve salvation through works.

If you ask most people if they are going to Heaven, and they say “yes”, and ask them why, they will say some derivation of “ I’m a good person. I do some good things. I’m sure my good deeds will outweigh my bad deeds “.

Or the Pharisees view “ I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

If repenting of other sins could save anyone, then there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Not to mention that a dead person can’t make an eternal choice without being quickened by God first.

There are some here that haven’t yet repented of their dead works, and instead rely on them to one degree or another to somehow help Jesus save themselves.

Very dangerous place to be.
 
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John146 said:
What must I do to be saved? And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house.

I'm not sure why Calvinists take away any responsible on man's part to respond to the preaching of the cross. The preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation. If God has already elected those who will be saved, then the preaching of the cross is foolishness. Calvinist: But it's the means by which an elect person will be saved even though they are already saved from the foundation of the world. Round and round we go...
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Not sure why some folks choose to be atheists and heretics, but I would like to be a fly on the wall
when the tulipists try to justify their demeaning of God's love and their impugning of His justness.
I wonder if Jesus will be able to free their brains by saying something we omit or will He reiterate Matt. 13:14-15?
 
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PennEd said:
Repent of what?

The repentance that saves is a repentance of DEAD WORKS.

Through the faith that God gives us, we must recognize and repent from thinking we can achieve salvation through works.

If you ask most people if they are going to Heaven, and they say “yes”, and ask them why, they will say some derivation of “ I’m a good person. I do some good things. I’m sure my good deeds will outweigh my bad deeds “.

Or the Pharisees view “ I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

If repenting of other sins could save anyone, then there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Not to mention that a dead person can’t make an eternal choice without being quickened by God first.

There are some here that haven’t yet repented of their dead works, and instead rely on them to one degree or another to somehow help Jesus save themselves.

Very dangerous place to be.
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Yes, of dead works and of willful ignorance of GW.

Yes, dead persons are able to repent because God enables MFW.

Yes, there might be some on CC who have not repented of reliance on works for salvation,
and others here definitely have not repented of reliance on good luck for being elect.
 
brightfame52 said:
Thats not true. David as a Child of Grace was always making his prayer request to God about the need of spiritual enablement realizing his own will was insufficient. Ps 19:13

13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

He knew of the blessedness to have been caused to approach God Ps 65:4

4 ;Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
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Actually that's a conglomerate view of the majority of Scholars and Theologians that have ever offered meaning.

In other words, you don't know how to translate Scripture or you would be in alignment to the true majority viewpoint.
 
rogerg said:
As usual for you, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Do you know the law of holes - that when you find yourself in one, quit digging.
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Law of Holes like cherry picking a single Verse from a series of Verses and turning that meaning into whatever you want it to be like You do?
 
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