A Berean, does this mean a DIY student of Scripture?

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Jon777

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“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11, KJV)

Does this mean each person took their individual scroll, sat with their oil lamp, and by himself determined the meaning of the scriptures? No, the scrolls were considered the sacred property of the local Jewish community, funded and maintained collectively. They were not the private property of the elders or the attendant, though these leaders controlled access.

The synagogue leadership was generally decentralized and autonomous, relying on a group of qualified, older men rather than a single ruling authority. This body of leaders was often referred to as "elders" (presbyters) or "rulers," and they collectively managed the spiritual and civic affairs of the community.

“searched” - ἀνακρίνω anakrino, “to engage in careful study of a question, question, examine” the BDAG

Scholars estimate that only 3% to 10% of the male population in Roman Palestine could read and write fluently. For women, the rate was significantly lower. Therefore, who was more likely the ones doing the questioning and examining the OT scriptures, and in this way teaching the rank-and-file Jew?

Were the 1st century Jews each individually discussing among themselves the meaning of God’s word, or were they sitting and listening to elders discuss, question and examine the scriptures? How would we apply this principle to this day? We live in a day of the extreme seeking of individualism, but does that arrive at the truth of God in spiritual matters?

“And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.” (Eph 4:11-14, RSV)

I’ll go to the teachers from among the Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, and Anglicans of 1776 and before, rather than pay any attention to the groups popping up in large numbers as seen later in the 1800s and continuing today!
 
Jon777 said:
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11, KJV)

Does this mean each person took their individual scroll, sat with their oil lamp, and by himself determined the meaning of the scriptures? No, the scrolls were considered the sacred property of the local Jewish community, funded and maintained collectively. They were not the private property of the elders or the attendant, though these leaders controlled access.

The synagogue leadership was generally decentralized and autonomous, relying on a group of qualified, older men rather than a single ruling authority. This body of leaders was often referred to as "elders" (presbyters) or "rulers," and they collectively managed the spiritual and civic affairs of the community.

“searched” - ἀνακρίνω anakrino, “to engage in careful study of a question, question, examine” the BDAG

Scholars estimate that only 3% to 10% of the male population in Roman Palestine could read and write fluently. For women, the rate was significantly lower. Therefore, who was more likely the ones doing the questioning and examining the OT scriptures, and in this way teaching the rank-and-file Jew?

Were the 1st century Jews each individually discussing among themselves the meaning of God’s word, or were they sitting and listening to elders discuss, question and examine the scriptures? How would we apply this principle to this day? We live in a day of the extreme seeking of individualism, but does that arrive at the truth of God in spiritual matters?

“And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.” (Eph 4:11-14, RSV)

I’ll go to the teachers from among the Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, and Anglicans of 1776 and before, rather than pay any attention to the groups popping up in large numbers as seen later in the 1800s and continuing today!
Click to expand...
What do you think a Berean would think this means?

1Co 8:2
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
8:2 εἰ δέ τις δοκεῖ εἰδέναι τι οὐδέπω οὐδὲν ἔγνωκεν καθὼς δεῖ γνῶναι·
 
Jon777 said:
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11, KJV)

Does this mean each person took their individual scroll, sat with their oil lamp, and by himself determined the meaning of the scriptures? No, the scrolls were considered the sacred property of the local Jewish community, funded and maintained collectively. They were not the private property of the elders or the attendant, though these leaders controlled access.

The synagogue leadership was generally decentralized and autonomous, relying on a group of qualified, older men rather than a single ruling authority. This body of leaders was often referred to as "elders" (presbyters) or "rulers," and they collectively managed the spiritual and civic affairs of the community.

“searched” - ἀνακρίνω anakrino, “to engage in careful study of a question, question, examine” the BDAG

Scholars estimate that only 3% to 10% of the male population in Roman Palestine could read and write fluently. For women, the rate was significantly lower. Therefore, who was more likely the ones doing the questioning and examining the OT scriptures, and in this way teaching the rank-and-file Jew?

Were the 1st century Jews each individually discussing among themselves the meaning of God’s word, or were they sitting and listening to elders discuss, question and examine the scriptures? How would we apply this principle to this day? We live in a day of the extreme seeking of individualism, but does that arrive at the truth of God in spiritual matters?

“And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.” (Eph 4:11-14, RSV)

I’ll go to the teachers from among the Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, and Anglicans of 1776 and before, rather than pay any attention to the groups popping up in large numbers as seen later in the 1800s and continuing today!
Click to expand...
" . . . as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures." 2 Peter 3:16

Teaching is important, but being from before 1776 doesn't automatically make someone a good teacher. Roman Catholicism started in the 4th century; and not everything the reformers taught should be accepted either. The one exception I can think of are the pre-Nicene writers, they seemed pretty solid. There are good teachers around today, but they're getting harder to find.
 
Thanks to the protestants bibles are ubiquitous and cheap (even free), and literacy is the norm. So everyone that wants to can study on their own without having to learn from oral tradition or readings, and can consult with more knowledgeable people and writings when necessary. The greatest teacher lives inside of each one of us.
 
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Jon777 said:
The synagogue leadership was generally decentralized and autonomous, relying on a group of qualified, older men rather than a single ruling authority. This body of leaders was often referred to as "elders" (presbyters) or "rulers," and they collectively managed the spiritual and civic affairs of the community.

“searched” - ἀνακρίνω anakrino, “to engage in careful study of a question, question, examine” the BDAG

I’ll go to the teachers from among the Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, and Anglicans of 1776 and before, rather than pay any attention to the groups popping up in large numbers as seen later in the 1800s and continuing today!
Click to expand...
The older men and leaders of the Synagogue completely missed all of the Scriptures referring to Yeshua and they murdered their own prophesied Messiah.

Not a single one but Nicodemus recognized the fulfillment.

And the 1776 teachers message for those specific Denominations have become a catalyst that have allowed same sex believers and those same Denominations lead all other including more modern day Protestant Denominations in same sex membership and leaders within their respective Churches.

I prefer the Denominations that preach against such Abomination!
 
lrs68 said:
The older men and leaders of the Synagogue completely missed all of the Scriptures referring to Yeshua and they murdered their own prophesied Messiah.

Not a single one but Nicodemus recognized the fulfillment.
Click to expand...

Look again

Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43​
 
Jon777 said:
Scholars estimate that only 3% to 10% of the male population in Roman Palestine could read and write fluently. For women, the rate was significantly lower. Therefore, who was more likely the ones doing the questioning and examining the OT scriptures, and in this way teaching the rank-and-file Jew?
Click to expand...

I'm going to call BS on this factoid.
All self respecting Jews sent their children to the local synagogue where they would hold bethgashepher and Bethmidrash.
School for children became compulsory in 60 AD. A nonsense law as all children were already in attendance.

What wasn't necessarily taught was Early Latin. Greek was known as well....it just wasn't taught....but the Septuagint existed for a REASON.

Women went to school as well. Usually until age 12-16 until learning how to be a proper wife took precedent over educations. FYI it was Timothy's mother who taught him the scriptures....because she knew them as any daughter of Abraham should. Every neighborhood and city had a synagogue and school....each synagogue had it's own Torah Scrolls and looked to purchase more Scrolls. Paul owned his own scrolls.

Roman knowledge of Hebrew? Extremely brief and limited.
 
JohnDB said:
I'm going to call BS on this factoid.
All self respecting Jews sent their children to the local synagogue where they would hold bethgashepher and Bethmidrash.
School for children became compulsory in 60 AD. A nonsense law as all children were already in attendance.

What wasn't necessarily taught was Early Latin. Greek was known as well....it just wasn't taught....but the Septuagint existed for a REASON.

Women went to school as well. Usually until age 12-16 until learning how to be a proper wife took precedent over educations. FYI it was Timothy's mother who taught him the scriptures....because she knew them as any daughter of Abraham should. Every neighborhood and city had a synagogue and school....each synagogue had it's own Torah Scrolls and looked to purchase more Scrolls. Paul owned his own scrolls.

Roman knowledge of Hebrew? Extremely brief and limited.
Click to expand...
I do not know what your source of information is, but did each Jewish household have their own biblical scrolls? Even if they did…..

“Hezser has devoted the only full length study to this question in her monograph Jewish Literacy in Roman Palestine. She agrees with Bar-Ilan on his statistical claims: total literacy in Palestine was probably around 3%; those who were literate were largely located in urban areas; some villages and towns had literacy rates of lower than 1%. In this connection Hezser makes the striking historical observation that “the only literary works which can with certainty be attributed to Palestinian Jews of the first century C.E. are the writings of Josephus and the no longer extant works of his opponent Justus of Tiberias” (both of whom “received a Greek education and were influenced by Graeco-Roman writing”). Moreover, Hezser argues that “writing seems to have mostly – and perhaps almost exclusively — been used by the political, economic, and religious-intellectual elites in late Roman Palestine.” Was the fisherman Simon-Peter in this august group?

Before pursuing that question, we should look at the related issue of the use of Greek in first-century Palestine. Hezser evaluates the extent to which Palestinian Jews may have been able to converse in Greek more generously than other more recent studies devoted to the question, as we will see in a moment. But even she points out that Josephus is the only Jew of Roman Palestine to indicate that he learned Greek, and she notes that Josephus himself indicates that he could not write literary Greek without assistance from Greek speakers (Contra Apionem 1.9). Moreover, Hezser admits that we do not know whether Josephus studied Greek before coming to Rome. She later acknowledges that most Jews in Palestine would have had only “a rudimentary knowledge of Greek” which involved knowing “a few phrases to lead to a simple conversation.” That is a long way from being able to write a high-level Greek composition, especially in light of the fact that simple conversational Greek took no special training, whereas learning to read (even in one’s own language) took years of hard work, and composition took years more. Louis Feldman notes that “Josephus’s admission (Contra Apionem 1.50 [= 1.9]) that he needed assistance in composing the version in Greek of the Jewish War illustrates that few attained the competence in the language necessary for reading and understanding Greek literature.”
https://ehrmanblog.org/how-many-people-were-literate-in-antiquity/
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Look again

Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42-43​
Click to expand...
Many times those who rule are not teaching in the Synagogue.
 
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Jon777 said:
I do not know what your source of information is, but did each Jewish household have their own biblical scrolls? Even if they did…..

“Hezser has devoted the only full length study to this question in her monograph Jewish Literacy in Roman Palestine. She agrees with Bar-Ilan on his statistical claims: total literacy in Palestine was probably around 3%; those who were literate were largely located in urban areas; some villages and towns had literacy rates of lower than 1%. In this connection Hezser makes the striking historical observation that “the only literary works which can with certainty be attributed to Palestinian Jews of the first century C.E. are the writings of Josephus and the no longer extant works of his opponent Justus of Tiberias” (both of whom “received a Greek education and were influenced by Graeco-Roman writing”). Moreover, Hezser argues that “writing seems to have mostly – and perhaps almost exclusively — been used by the political, economic, and religious-intellectual elites in late Roman Palestine.” Was the fisherman Simon-Peter in this august group?

Before pursuing that question, we should look at the related issue of the use of Greek in first-century Palestine. Hezser evaluates the extent to which Palestinian Jews may have been able to converse in Greek more generously than other more recent studies devoted to the question, as we will see in a moment. But even she points out that Josephus is the only Jew of Roman Palestine to indicate that he learned Greek, and she notes that Josephus himself indicates that he could not write literary Greek without assistance from Greek speakers (Contra Apionem 1.9). Moreover, Hezser admits that we do not know whether Josephus studied Greek before coming to Rome. She later acknowledges that most Jews in Palestine would have had only “a rudimentary knowledge of Greek” which involved knowing “a few phrases to lead to a simple conversation.” That is a long way from being able to write a high-level Greek composition, especially in light of the fact that simple conversational Greek took no special training, whereas learning to read (even in one’s own language) took years of hard work, and composition took years more. Louis Feldman notes that “Josephus’s admission (Contra Apionem 1.50 [= 1.9]) that he needed assistance in composing the version in Greek of the Jewish War illustrates that few attained the competence in the language necessary for reading and understanding Greek literature.”
https://ehrmanblog.org/how-many-people-were-literate-in-antiquity/
Click to expand...

Ok....
But like I said before....
They were fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew.....not early Latin or Greek. The children went to school.

Yes, the Septuagint translation existed(Greek)....but that was the predominant translation for the Jewish communities in Greek/Roman areas. And it was disparaged highly by Jews....even though it was put together by Levites....it had created "issues" that neither the Sanhidrin or Jewish Councils ever wanted to address.
(There were many I can't even begin to touch in this post)

Which is why the Jews began the whole process of formally teaching the Children after the Diaspora but also after the creation of the Septuagint. (A lot had to do with flat out prejudice, the civil war with the Samaritans, and the Hellenistic Jews which were tossed from the entire Rome/Italian province around 50 AD) which is why they made school compulsory for children around 60AD.

Stephan, (first martyr) was one of the Hellenistic Jews tossed from the Italian province because they refused to give up on their monotheistic religion.
He quoted almost verbatim from the Septuagint in places and gave loose summaries in other testimony. He, like Timothy, both were fluent in Greek and Hebrew. Matthew was of course Levi who penned his Gospel first in Hebrew and then translated it into Greek himself....same with the writer of Hebrews. (Bartholomew or Barnabus.....can't remember which one)

So....
Where Greek literacy can be questioned....NOBODY was really illiterate at all. In fact the Jews of Israel were some of the most educated people of all of the Roman Empire. Kinda an oddity.
 
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Then we come to the whole question of Jerome....who recorded and standardized the Latin Bible.
 
JohnDB said:
Yes, the Septuagint translation existed(Greek)....but that was the predominant translation for the Jewish communities. And it was disparaged highly by Jews
Click to expand...

No, it was not. Paul and the other apostles used it as evidenced by their OT quotes.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Not true. Only the educated like Paul knew Hebrew.
Click to expand...
You need to think things through 2 times before posting.

Paul was from Tarsus AND a Roman citizen as well as a Jewish Pharisee fully accredited as a low order Jewish Rabbi. (But rising through the ranks quickly)

Paul was fluent in both Hebrew and Greek. Which made him unique.
 
JohnDB said:
Google :
"Bethmidrash"
"Bethgashepher"

I'm not proposing anything unique or original. This stuff is everywhere. Just gotta do something other than listen to YouTube sermons.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that aspects of modern Judaism existed 2000 years ago.
 
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