I don't think they understand or believe that in their joyless church. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Is cessation an observation or theology?
- Thread starter Lamar
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I don't think they understand or believe that in their joyless church. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Something interesting I have observed over the years, mind I don't think I am the only one, is that we don't find those
who are not cessationists starting these kinds of threads in order to convince people to believe what is the truth
in scripture.
Nope. Rather, we find cessationists starting these types of threads and this one is no exception.
So, we have people who wish to define their Christianity not by biblical standards, but by their own small minded thinking in which they reduce God and Jesus to stories in the Bible and the Holy Spirit as no longer operative. Oh, but they believe! Well they sure do but only what they can manipulate by their own 5 senses. No room for anything spiritual even though the Bible is a spiritual book.
Therefore, they must create threads in which cessationism takes center stage or limited cessationism (the safe choice just in case something is actually going on with the Holy Spirit) in order to prove to themselves they are right. So then those who know better,
try to make a case for the truth and then the ugliness starts and accusations begin from the non-spiritual and it is the same in every thread whether in this or another forum.
We start to see 'Ichabod' written over the entries in church after church and I don't think there is any coming back from that.....on a personal basis probably, but when you have an entire organization supposedly built around a religious belief, I don't think so.
You have now and I don't know how much of tomorrow, to seek the truth, find the truth and apply the truth. After that, you will see those who are spiritual as the enemy while believing in what you see with your physical eyes as the truth.
Jesus does not bless that but He does warn against it. That, is in the Bible.
who are not cessationists starting these kinds of threads in order to convince people to believe what is the truth
in scripture.
Nope. Rather, we find cessationists starting these types of threads and this one is no exception.
So, we have people who wish to define their Christianity not by biblical standards, but by their own small minded thinking in which they reduce God and Jesus to stories in the Bible and the Holy Spirit as no longer operative. Oh, but they believe! Well they sure do but only what they can manipulate by their own 5 senses. No room for anything spiritual even though the Bible is a spiritual book.
Therefore, they must create threads in which cessationism takes center stage or limited cessationism (the safe choice just in case something is actually going on with the Holy Spirit) in order to prove to themselves they are right. So then those who know better,
try to make a case for the truth and then the ugliness starts and accusations begin from the non-spiritual and it is the same in every thread whether in this or another forum.
We start to see 'Ichabod' written over the entries in church after church and I don't think there is any coming back from that.....on a personal basis probably, but when you have an entire organization supposedly built around a religious belief, I don't think so.
You have now and I don't know how much of tomorrow, to seek the truth, find the truth and apply the truth. After that, you will see those who are spiritual as the enemy while believing in what you see with your physical eyes as the truth.
Jesus does not bless that but He does warn against it. That, is in the Bible.
First off, I have and so have many other why should we cast our pearls? And as far as insult the poster of this thread is no stranger to them to those who do not agree with his position on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. In addition, you claim to be a Christian, correct? Why do I need to point out what you a self-Claiming Christian sees God said he does in the word of GOD. You need to see it to believe it? I have nothing to prove to you. When many of us have provided many testimonies of salvations, Healing and deliverances. YOU don't believe those three things happen today? You have not seen any salvations? When was the last time you were used to lead a person to Christ? Or that is not an important anymore?
It seems you are greatly mistaken on the operation of the Holy Spirit. An open Mind God gave us or renewed mind one like Christ's?
The problem is not one's brain falling out, it is one who has a carnal mind and needs it to be stimulated by pride and self-arrogance.
No you are also a liar Lamar. I have many times as you know because as before you did not provide any Biblical refuting of the word of God That was provided supporting my position. You post a new thread on an old topic, yet you still have only emotional sound bites no Biblical support. Show me, provide for me, demonstrate for me, preform a miracle for me. Buffoonery.
I have said many times it is foolishness that is seen of some on YouTube and other social media of false Prophecies, and misuse of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. And there is no gift more abused than that of the office of Pastor.
I have seen God heal, save and set free and he still does it today. You call those baseless claims. You all knowing now? Rip out
1corthians chapters 12 through 14 on the gifts of the Holy Spirit and remove Eph 4:11-16 on the gifts of Christ given to the church.
I trust the word of God. I believe in the power of prayer. I hold to the God of the Bible who will confirm his word with Signs and wonders. Because GOD is unlimited, he can do so in many ways. I as Jesus do not have to prove to a modern day Pharisees like yourself anything. You do not validate my walk nor do you remove my Testimony. I think you are just a half baked cake.
Full of hate and anger. Why? Most likely you were hurt by a fool who abused the gifts of the Holty Spirit. Instead of seeking GOD you let unforgiveness and anger overtake you. I will continue to pray for you. Trust God by your own Eyes Hmm carel minded ones?
Lets talk about faith as we see in the word of God :
Hebrews 11:1
Romans 10:17
Hebrews 11:6
John 20:29
whose eyes re you looking with your own or of faith?
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Yes I agree, you should heed what you stated.
Or most likely, yours!?
You didnt really ask me.
No, I don’t follow man’s creeds… No apologies given!
I follow Scripture.
I follow TRUTH, but I’ve definitely seen very little on this platform, when it comes to absolute truths.
Yeah, you’re free to walk away just as many Jews and people did during Jesus’ time. People have not changed just as His word never changes.
Well, that is not actually true. Here is your op title:
Is cessation an observation or theology?
Where in that title, do we find that the thread is only about physical/supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit? Nowhere, that's where. Nowhere.
Cessationism usually refers to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, determined by God, as to which person to bestow with said gift.
Speaking of the NT, you are just one of the many who scoffed and attacked those who were converts to Christianity. You are not above the Bible; you are one person who, simply put, does not actually believe the Bible. You believe what you are comfortable with and you get exactly what you might expect as such a person....no evidence of spiritual truth or ability to distinguish between your little world and the impossibly actual and invisble world in which God, the omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, omniscient, holy and self sustaining Creator of all things, dwells.
He does not need your permission. He answers the prayers of those who seek Him, in truth and gives wisdom to those who lack it when they ask Him for it. All of that is by faith. You cannot please Him without faith and the world does not miss a beat because you lack faith and desire to condemn those who in faith accept scripture as it is presented.
You fail to understand it is not the human component of the responses in this thread you created that is somehow yours to diminish or mock; it is actually God Himself who is Spirit and leads by the Holy Spirit that you have tried to bring down to your understanding and lack of faith. You trespass with humanity that is apart from understanding that no one can please God without faith and that the faith He requires, is the faith that is understanding that God is not human and does not answer to us. We answer to Him.
Is cessation an observation or theology? that was your question in this thread.
Now you want to talk about physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Ok.
Is one coming under conviction an act of the Holy Spirit and if it is would that not be a Supernatural Manifestation because GOD is the one doing so in a human being?
But we are not discussing a manifestation that is questionable at best and possibly demonic at worst.
There are no Pentecostals in the Bible. No Baptists. No Charasmatics. No Lutherans. No Puritans. I could go on.
Nothing that is said by you or any one else will make false what is written in scripture concerning all spiritual gifts, the reason they are given or the fact that charlatans exist and detractors from truth will always point to those people rather than seek earnestly the truth of what is written. This fall back position is like your True North on a compass and you will not be moved by scripture itself, inspired by the Holy Spirit and given for our instruction.
If you are not led by the Spirit of God, there is nothing you have done that counts for anything. Are you walking in the Spirit as the Bible instructs us to do? Or have you decided you prefer your own 'wisdom' and God has nothing to say to you other than all the gifts are over and the church (body of Jesus) no longer needs instruction.
You will particularly enjoy that understanding when you are desperate for God to answer you or show you what you need to do or how to avoid deception. God is not mocked and He is not moved by people who avoid what they do not have and will not ask for.
turn up your hearing aid put on your glasses. Yes they both happen. What is Miraculous by definition? "Performed by or involving a supernatural power or agency."
What man calls random Chance is Seen in the word of God as a Miraculous work of God in Creation. Anytime GOD does something in man and on the earth it is Miraculous.
His hand has provided Divine protection, Healing and provision. IN war He has protected many by HIs providence that was seen and unexplainable. Do you believe the reports of UFO and Aliens I am curious to know if you do? Answer me that?
Do you cessationist here believe in Aliens and UFO as being life from another planet?
IF you don't know what salvation and God working is it seem you lack Biblical Context of salvation.
Are you this dense to not understand the meaning of physical supernatural manifestation?
Can you not put these three words together and grasp its meaning?
Is there no one in your life that you can show this to and ask them to help you comprehend its meaning?
Just write down the words "physical supernatural manifestation" on a piece of paper and show it to your local librarian. Someone there will help you.
Though you state dogmatically that the word perfect as it is used in the NT implies DEITY. Let us examine the scripture you brought up to see if what it states is consistent with your premise.
1 Corinthians 13:10
but when the PERFECT comes, the PARTIAL passes away.
The word PERFECT that is used in this verse is teleion (τέλειον) which CAN mean completed but it most definitely does not refer to God Himself who did not come to be who He is through a process of change and development. Had Paul intended the word PERFECT to be a reference to God he would at least have used the masculine form of the adjective PERFECT to match the gender of the noun GOD which is also masculine. In Greek, the gender of an adjective must match the gender designation of the NOUN it refers to.
This is not CHANGING the grammar of the verse, it IS the grammar.
You can mock and scoff all you like Lamar. "physical supernatural manifestation" has many meanings based on ones Theological position or lack there of. Some believe they can conjure a force or evoke strong emotional responses and influence belief that a super national experience has happened . YOU fail to take into consideration The God of the Bible. You believe that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped. You assume any manifestation is not of God. Why? Because you have not seen any real ones. You are more of an evolutionist and agnostic. God doesn't live inside your humanistic approach to a manifestation of God that man cannot comprehend. You, and others like you, try to word salad terms to make you seem lofty or sound official. Do you believe in UFO Lamar? Or Aliens from outer space? If you have the ability to answer that I love to hear it.
All you have to do is drop your unbiblical bias and check out Derek Prince. He did what Lord Jesus commanded His followers to do: cast out demons and heal the sick. You will find a great deal of his preaching on youtube. And yes, he testified to seeing two people raised from the dead.
I've cast out demons and prayed for the sick to be healed. I've been healed by the power of God myself a number of times. And there are times when God has used the health system as well. No one has heard of me, but Derek Prince was well known for his deep biblical knowledge and power and authority in Christ.
Don't be among those who have the appearance of godliness but deny the power.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
True
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,”
Romans 1:20 NKJV
We simply have to believe in God’s Son, Jesus Christ and Him crucified to be saved.
God has TWO revelations, a special revelation through the bible - AND a GENERAL revelation through everything in life - "since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead." The bible is the word of God, but be reminded always, that it's sufficient but NOT exhaustive, it doesn't has a clear answer for everything in life. The sin of cessationalism is its ignorance of this, it idolizes God's special revelation, as though it's the only revelation of God dropped from the heaven, even though the canonical English bible didn't exist until king James I in the early 1600s, and it denies or at least marginalizes God's general revelation through all his creations. That's honoring the Holy Spirit while denying its power, the very definition of unforgivable sin.