Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

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brightfame52 said:
No God doesnt require saving faith from everyone. God gives it to everyone He saves, the elect. God doesnt require saving Faith for the vessels of wrath He created and fitted for destruction. He leaves them in and confirms them in their natural disobedience.
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Amazing.. yet Jesus states "your faith has saved you"

He did not say "the faith I gave you, saved you"
 
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John146 said:
The same reason Paul kicked against the pricks. The same reason most people, myself included, do not believe the gospel the first time hearing. Sometimes, the soil is so hard, it takes time to loosen. Some, have so been indoctrinated by other beliefs (blinded by Satan) that God hands them over.
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Better to have no answer, than make up a system to answer questions falsely.

I do think that is the false comfort of the U in TULIP.
 
HeIsHere said:
Was this before Ezekiel was a believer?

So sanctification precedes justification?
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Yes. The Bible refers to them as "holy ones", "saints". or "consecrated ones." In other words, they are sanctified ones.
 
Roger316 said:
Yes. The Bible refers to them as "holy ones", "saints". or "consecrated ones." In other words, they are sanctified ones.
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What does this mean exactly, did they have the spirit of God dwelling in them?
Were they born from above?

As well in the NT are you saying it teaches sanctification prior to justification?
 
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HeIsHere said:
Sometimes it is heard to believe we actually have to dispute this doctrine/false soteriology, it is so on its face un-biblical.

I often wonder what it must be like for them to pray for the salvation of a loved one, friend, co worker, stranger or relative knowing the person might not be on the list, Christ Jesus did not die for that person.

That cannot be a pray based faith at all!!!

I also always think of the psychology/temperament of such a person who thinks they were specially created/elected for salvation while others were not, it must be something.
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Huh? Knowing THEY might not be on the list!
A God who hates humanity would also deceive them.
 
The term Calvinism seems to be used more to indicate a rejection of particular Biblical
truths. Also a logical fallacy, guilt by association type of thing, which those who wish to
condemn those they disagree with try to blacken even more by lying about Calvin himself.
 
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Magenta said:
The term Calvinism seems to be used more to indicate a rejection of particular Biblical
truths. Also a logical fallacy, guilt by association type of thing, which those who wish to
condemn those they disagree with try to blacken even more by lying about Calvin himself.
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That is why I specify disagreement with the part known as Tulipism rather than with all of Calvinism.
 
HeIsHere said:
That was not written to "you" drop your western egocentric interpretation and read in context.....

Paul’s context, to thank God for his Gentile audience being chosen, or engrafted (Rom. 11:13-24), to salvation through faith.
This is the mystery which had been hidden for generations which is just now being made known through teachers Paul (Eph. 3:1-11).
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See you dont believe scripture
 
HeIsHere said:
What does this mean exactly, did they have the spirit of God dwelling in them?
Were they born from above?

As well in the NT are you saying it teaches sanctification prior to justification?
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To be clear, Sanctification in Scripture is not the slow moral self‑improvement project most Christians imagine; it is the act of God setting a person apart by giving them a new heart, a new nature, and a new allegiance before they ever believe. In both Testaments, sanctification is God’s decisive, creative work: He cuts away the old heart (circumcision of the heart), gives a new spirit, and claims a people as His own possession. This is why Paul can say believers are “sanctified in Christ Jesus” *before* he ever addresses their behavior. In biblical logic, sanctification precedes justification because God must first make a person *alive*, *clean*, and *His* in order for them to respond in faith. The new heart is the root; faith is the fruit; justification is the legal declaration that follows. Moral transformation comes downstream, not as the engine of sanctification but as its evidence. True sanctification is God’s sovereign act of creating a people who will believe, not a spiritual technique for becoming ethically competent.
 
Magenta said:
The term Calvinism seems to be used more to indicate a rejection of particular Biblical
truths. Also a logical fallacy, guilt by association type of thing, which those who wish to
condemn those they disagree with try to blacken even more by lying about Calvin himself.
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Another one of Calvin's false doctrine:

Calvin believed that baptism is not merely a ritual but a sacrament that signifies and seals God’s promises, including the promise of salvation and covenant membership. He argued that infants of Christian parents should be baptized because they are part of the covenant community, just as Jewish infants were included through circumcision.

Of course, the children of the "elect" will also be elect. God forbid if not...
 
Roger316 said:
To be clear, Sanctification in Scripture is not the slow moral self‑improvement project most Christians imagine; it is the act of God setting a person apart by giving them a new heart, a new nature, and a new allegiance before they ever believe. In both Testaments, sanctification is God’s decisive, creative work: He cuts away the old heart (circumcision of the heart), gives a new spirit, and claims a people as His own possession. This is why Paul can say believers are “sanctified in Christ Jesus” *before* he ever addresses their behavior. In biblical logic, sanctification precedes justification because God must first make a person *alive*, *clean*, and *His* in order for them to respond in faith. The new heart is the root; faith is the fruit; justification is the legal declaration that follows. Moral transformation comes downstream, not as the engine of sanctification but as its evidence. True sanctification is God’s sovereign act of creating a people who will believe, not a spiritual technique for becoming ethically competent.
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The problem with tulip is that it depicts God as unjust and hating half of humanity, which is heresy!
 
was
John146 said:
The same reason Paul kicked against the pricks. The same reason most people, myself included, do not believe the gospel the first time hearing. Sometimes, the soil is so hard, it takes time to loosen. Some, have so been indoctrinated by other beliefs (blinded by Satan) that God hands them over.
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i mean number one, you didn’t really answer the question, and incredibly the example you cited is one of the strongest arguments that God chooses!

Paul was happy colluding killing Christians, when JESUS knocked him of his horse, appeared to him, and blinded him!

Pretty sure that qualifies for God choosing the Elect.
 
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