Is cessation an observation or theology?

[TruthDefender]

Maybe you are seeing them because your definition of a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit is wrong. You are not the arbiter of what the OP meant by physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Nor are you the adjudicator of every claim of the miraculous. This is why God has given us open minds to review such claims but not so open that our brains fall out. Someone like you would have believed that Simon Magus was "someone great" and would refer to him as "the Great Power of God". And why would CS1 believe Sam Magus? Because CS1 has no discernment. Jesus also warned that "false christ and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders" but you CS1 embrace this falsehood and push the unaware toward it. BUT because of your arrogance you refuse to admit the foolishness of these baseless claim.

"Jesus must have lied." ----TruthDefender made no such statement. What a deceitful and prideful mind-set you have.

Wow, hey everyone throw away your discernment because one person thinks we cannot trust our own eyes. LOL.

Sorry for my reply to you, I actually meant that for someone else. My apologies!!

 

[CS1]

I’m not doubting salvation, but that isn’t MMs. Again, what does salvation have to do with MM?

It would seem a great many of you lack basic understanding of MM, period.

These where ones intellectual understanding is incapable of understanding God intervening in the life of man. It is those who as I said do not believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today. Yet they cannot prove that point Biblically. That is the only point. You or I seeing it happen in ill relevant. God can and God has done many Miraculous things. You may not see as such. Yet Science will explain how an eclipse happens, but who caused it ? I have seen many in my lifetime God did it did he not? IN the Paradise CA the fires that happen there that was so fast many friend and family could not get out by car had to walk the fire never came near them to the point of death. Yet 98% of homes were burned up. who protected them?

 

[Gideon300]

God has TWO revelations, a special revelation through the bible - AND a GENERAL revelation through everything in life - "since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead." The bible is the word of God, but be reminded always, that it's sufficient but NOT exhaustive, it doesn't has a clear answer for everything in life. The sin of cessationalism is its ignorance of this, it idolizes God's special revelation, as though it's the only revelation of God dropped from the heaven, even though the canonical English bible didn't exist until king James I in the early 1600s, and it denies or at least marginalizes God's general revelation through all his creations. That's honoring the Holy Spirit while denying its power, the very definition of unforgivable sin.

"The most significant English Bible prior to the King James Version (KJV) is the Geneva Bible, first published in 1560, which was widely used by English Protestants and influenced later translations. Other notable translations include the Great Bible (1539) and the Bishops' Bible (1568), but the Geneva Bible was the most popular until the KJV's release in 1611."

KJV was not the first English bible.

 

[Lovette]

"The most significant English Bible prior to the King James Version (KJV) is the Geneva Bible, first published in 1560, which was widely used by English Protestants and influenced later translations. Other notable translations include the Great Bible (1539) and the Bishops' Bible (1568), but the Geneva Bible was the most popular until the KJV's release in 1611."

KJV was not the first English bible.

Nonetheless, KJV has been the absolute frame of reference. When a newer translation of bible is suspected to be inaccurate or adulterated, you check it against KJV; plus, bible in other languages were usually translated from KJV, not the original Greek and Hebrew, so when it's suspected to be inaccurate or adulterated, you also check it against KJV.

 

[TrustandObey]

bible in other languages were usually translated from KJV, not the original Greek and Hebrew, so when it's suspected to be inaccurate or adulterated, you also check it against KJV.

I doubt this is true.

Can you cite this?

 

[Lovette]

I doubt this is true.

Can you cite this?

That's the case for any translation of bible in my native language, which I won't reveal. No idea about bible in other languages beside English, though.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Do I have to spell it out again? Miracles exist, MIRACULOUS miracles don’t.

Why don’t they exist?? I’m glad you asked this question, again!. Because of what Scripture says in 1 Cor. 13:10.

Conflation much!!

What does salvation have to do with the M miracles?

So there is a difference between miracles and MIRACULOUS miracles??

 

[CS1]

Do I have to spell it out again? Miracles exist, MIRACULOUS miracles don’t.

Why don’t they exist?? I’m glad you asked this question, again!. Because of what Scripture says in 1 Cor. 13:10.

Conflation much!!

What does salvation have to do with the M miracles?

1cor chapter 13: 10 has not happened. You take one verse out of the three chapter that speak on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in the word of God that says the gifts of the Holy Spirit has stopped because the Canonization of the Bible.

That is Biblical error. Improper Biblical interpretation. That is just as wrong as those saying one must be baptized in Jesus name only.

You can't build a narrative of the word of God when you don't even know what 1cor 13:10 i saying Prove your point and explain why this verse says what you think it says . I will wait. Don't be a coward. Please shock me with something not regurgitated from

John MacArthur​

 

[TruthDefender]

These where ones intellectual understanding is incapable of understanding God intervening in the life of man. It is those who as I said do not believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today. Yet they cannot prove that point Biblically. That is the only point. You or I seeing it happen in ill relevant. God can and God has done many Miraculous things. You may not see as such. Yet Science will explain how an eclipse happens, but who caused it ? I have seen many in my lifetime God did it did he not? IN the Paradise CA the fires that happen there that was so fast many friend and family could not get out by car had to walk the fire never came near them to the point of death. Yet 98% of homes were burned up. who protected them? View attachment 289880

I believe all that God tells us. Do you?

Yes, I believe God protects people; some of the things may be miracles, but not of the miraculous variety that the Bible speaks of.

 

[TruthDefender]

1cor chapter 13: 10 has not happened. You take one verse out of the three chapter that speak on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in the word of God that says the gifts of the Holy Spirit has stopped because the Canonization of the Bible.

Ok, so you DISMISS something because there seems to be only one verse on the subject. Got it!

That is Biblical error. Improper Biblical interpretation. That is just as wrong as those saying one must be baptized in Jesus name only.

Now you believe that the Bible is in ERROR because something doesn’t fit into your FALSE doctrine beliefs. Got it!

You can't build a narrative of the word of God when you don't even know what 1cor 13:10 i saying Prove your point and explain why this verse says what you think it says . I will wait. Don't be a coward. Please shock me with something not regurgitated from

John MacArthur​

Your lack of validating anything is shocking! Who is John MacArthur??

My narrative is Scripture, which is self validating, because it is what God states.

The proof is in God’s word! You might just want to read it to gain some insight and clarity w/o carrying around the heavy baggage of false doctrine.

 

[TruthDefender]

So there is a difference between miracles and MIRACULOUS miracles??

Yes, I pointed out the differences. If you’re familiar with the MM in the NC, you would understand these differences. They’re not seen today; if they were seen, the News would pick them up pretty fast.

 

[Lamar]

Nonetheless, KJV has been the absolute frame of reference. When a newer translation of bible is suspected to be inaccurate or adulterated, you check it against KJV; plus, bible in other languages were usually translated from KJV, not the original Greek and Hebrew, so when it's suspected to be inaccurate or adulterated, you also check it against KJV.

I also don't believe this. What can you offer to prove such a claim?

 

[Lamar]

"physical supernatural manifestation" has many meanings based on ones Theological position or lack there of.

Words have meanings and this is your issue.

May I suggest you proofread your posts. Your replies seem sloppy to say the least.

If you are not willing to ask your local librarian about the meaning of physical supernatural manifestation than ask your pastor if you attend a local church.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Yes, I pointed out the differences. If you’re familiar with the MM in the NC, you would understand these differences. They’re not seen today; if they were seen, the News would pick them up pretty fast.

Since the Bible itself does not use the redundant term MIRACULOUS MIRACLES I refuse to do so. If we have to import or coin neologisms from outside the scriptures in order to make it agree with our presuppositions then we are engaging in EISEGESIS not EXEGESIS not which is contrary to the sound principles of hermeneutics which govern "rightly dividing the word of truth"

The fact is NO ONE can interpret ANY passage correctly unless they take into account the actual words used in that passage.
We also must understand what is written according to its historical-grammatical context. The way you interpret the Bible is much like that of the Gnostics who, rather than beginning with the words as they appeared in the text, used something akin to free association in order to escape the boundaries of the context so they could launch into a discussion of ideas not present in the passage. Students of the word must be like Contract Lawyers who words and grammar to interpret binding legal contracts. There is no room in THAT kind of work for the imagination.

You also use another tactic which was used extensively by the Gnostics - that of accusing their detractors of not being spiritual enough to understand the scriptures. This is how they diverted legitimate debate into unfruitful ad homimen attacks. Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), is short for argumentum ad hominem ('an argument to the person'). It refers to occasions when a speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion often using a totally irrelevant, but often highly charged attribute of the opponent's character or background.

 

[TruthDefender]

Since the Bible itself does not use the redundant term MIRACULOUS MIRACLES I refuse to do so. If we have to import or coin neologisms from outside the scriptures in order to make it agree with our presuppositions then we are engaging in EISEGESIS not EXEGESIS not which is contrary to the sound principles of hermeneutics which govern "rightly dividing the word of truth"

The fact is NO ONE can interpret ANY passage correctly unless they take into account the actual words used in that passage.
We also must understand what is written according to its historical-grammatical context. The way you interpret the Bible is much like that of the Gnostics who, rather than beginning with the words as they appeared in the text, used something akin to free association in order to escape the boundaries of the context so they could launch into a discussion of ideas not present in the passage. Students of the word must be like Contract Lawyers who words and grammar to interpret binding legal contracts. There is no room in THAT kind of work for the imagination.

You also use another tactic which was used extensively by the Gnostics - that of accusing their detractors of not being spiritual enough to understand the scriptures. This is how they diverted legitimate debate into unfruitful ad homimen attacks. Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), is short for argumentum ad hominem ('an argument to the person'). It refers to occasions when a speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion often using a totally irrelevant, but often highly charged attribute of the opponent's character or background.

So you would consider raising the dead to be an ordinary miracle, or parting the sea, or making the blind to see and the lame to walk to be ordinary miracles, changing water to the best wine ever, carrying a piece of cloth to a diseased person for healing?? Wow!!

Can you not differentiate between ordinary and miraculous (to be seen by people)? So what if the word “miraculous is not in Scripture, this doesn’t negate the obvious differences.

 

[pinebeach]

That's the case for any translation of bible in my native language, which I won't reveal. No idea about bible in other languages beside English, though.

If it's your personal 'other' language which you won't reveal, why do you say 'any' translation? That's really quite disingenuous of you.

 

[pinebeach]

The fact is NO ONE can interpret ANY passage correctly unless they take into account the actual words used in that passage.

Which is why I have switched over to the ESV. One of the best, apparently, for being closest to the original.

At one time I was a NIV user

 

[pinebeach]

No, I don’t follow man’s creeds… No apologies given!
I follow Scripture.

No you do not. You deny scripture and give no reason why other than to state that you think the Bible you possess is perfect.

You follow your churches teaching which, seems to be rather cultice in it's applications

 

[pinebeach]

I follow TRUTH, but I’ve definitely seen very little on this platform, when it comes to absolute truths.

Yeah, you’re free to walk away just as many Jews and people did during Jesus’ time. People have not changed just as His word never changes.

Oh look I'm back.

You are defending your cultic like churches teaching. Of course, you are free to do so.

 

[Lovette]

I also don't believe this. What can you offer to prove such a claim?

Then don't. I don't believe all bible translations are created equal, only KJV is the most authoritative.