Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

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But since you are saying that refusal is the only possible response unless one is sanctified first you are in fact making it an inability.
Jeremiah teaches that the human heart is both morally deceptive and incapable of self‑renewal, describing it as “deceitful above all things and desperately sick.” This diagnosis explains why Israel’s problem was never a lack of information but a corrupted inner disposition. Yet Jeremiah also gives the corresponding promise: God Himself will act to give His people a new heart, writing His law within them and enabling them to know Him truly. In Jeremiah’s theology, the heart cannot transform itself; it must be transformed by God. The commands reveal our responsibility, but the promises reveal God’s power — the very obedience He requires is the obedience He supplies.

And is noted you have deflected and not responded to my rebuttal of why sanctification cannot precede justification.
Why does the order matter in your view? I would like to understand.
 
Ultimately Ezekiel is about Israel and have nothing to do with anyone being regenerated before they believe.
Nothing?
Ezekiel's 2 is part prophecy and is only to and about Israel falling away from God and being scattered among the nations and then God bringing them back physically into their homeland. This occured in 70 AD.

Then Ezekiel says AFTER God brings them back physically into their homeland they will recognize that Jesus is their Messiah and be saved.
Okay. Doesn't this mean that history will play out according to God's will? If so, doesn't this mean that Israel was partially hardened until God decided to fully soften it? Doesn't this mean that God could have fully softened it at any time?
Being SAVED is the only way a person can be given a new heart, not some "theory of regeneration before faith " which has been invented.
What if being given a new heart is an aspect of being saved?
As well, Hebrews 8:10 VERIFIES Ezekiel's prophecy.

The "new heart" is referring to God's covenant of SALVATION, not some strange "activation before faith theory."
God's covenant is not to regenerate, it is to SAVE. And the only way that a person is saved is through faith in Christ.
What if regeneration is an aspect of being saved?
 
The question is still valid. Is God commanding something that is impossible to perform? Can I give myself a new heart and a new spirit? I don't see how that is possible.

Your supposition is that it takes a new heart to believe the Good News of Christ Jesus.

You are denying what Paul clearly states about the power of the Gospel.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

It does NOT state gifted belief/given a changed heart........belief is the response of the person that is what Paul is stating, and the Gospel is TRUTH and it powerful because it is TRUTH.

The belief in this statement is the response to the Gospel message not the already given state of the person, that is so ridiculous on its face.

Anyway you are shifting goal posts and once again you have not revisited you assertion that sanctification precedes justification which is clearly error so until you address that I see no point continuing.
 
Placing one's faith in Christ Jesus gives a transformed heart, no one is sanctified or justified prior to belief.
According to Jesus, one will not believe unless one is born again first.
You have not shown this from scripture it is quite clear that the women had a heart so that she was able to place her faith in Christ Jesus.
Again you have demonstrated this heart condition is present at birth.
Thus the need to be born AGAIN. :)
 
Why does the order matter in your view? I would like to understand.

The order is important because we need to follow what Paul teaches and to make sure we do not change the character of God of someone who leaves people in their sin because for some unknown reason he decides to pass them over.

Your wrong soteriology changes the nature of God.

We are in the NT not the OT.

The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9

This tells me that God did not create humans being from birth without the moral inability to respond positively to the Good News of Christ Jesus.. because if he had Peter would not pen these words.
 
Order of salvation begins with God's foreknowledge. I have never seen her include it in her theology.
Thankfully at least she has stopped butchering Romans 1 v 16, however it is obvious the power of
salvation is to those who believe, not those who do not believe, and she does not admit that, ever,
either. In her theology the person who is incapable and hears the gospel as foolishness decides to
believe it. A leopard can change its spots and an Ethiopian the colour of its skin, also, apparently.
In fact one of her favorite lies is that the Bible never says man is unable/incapable. It does.
But it is of course routinely ignored in favor of her opinion.
 
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According to Jesus, one will not believe unless one is born again first.

Thus the need to be born AGAIN. :)

Wrong again first belief then born again.
Read the passage with the right lens.

Alright have a good day............this is the same ole, same ole, I am amazed how the same tactics (deflect, move the goal posts, mine for verses, cherry pick verses, never address the verses which support the opposite) are employed over and over again by people who take in this faulty soteriology. It is really something.
 
Wrong again first belief then born again.
Read the passage with the right lens.

Alright have a good day............this is the same ole, same ole, I am amazed how the same tactics (deflect, move the goal posts, mine for verses, cherry pick verses, never address the verses which support the opposite) are employed over and over again by people who take in this faulty soteriology. It is really something.
Unlike you, some of us believe what the Bible actually says, not what we want it to say.
 
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Your supposition is that it takes a new heart to believe the Good News of Christ Jesus.
I maintain that it takes a new heart to accept what is already believed. it is not impossible to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. But unless one is born again, one will refuse to believe it.
You are denying what Paul clearly states about the power of the Gospel.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

It does NOT state gifted belief/given a changed heart........belief is the response of the person that is what Paul is stating, and the Gospel is TRUTH and it powerful because it is TRUTH.
Paul writes a lot more than that. :)
The belief in this statement is the response to the Gospel message not the already given state of the person, that is so ridiculous on its face.

Anyway you are shifting goal posts and once again you have not revisited you assertion that sanctification precedes justification which is clearly error so until you address that I see no point continuing.
I think part of our disagreement may come from using the word **sanctification** in different ways. Before I respond further, could you tell me what *you* mean by the term? How do you understand sanctification, and what role do you believe it plays in salvation? If I can understand your definition, I’ll be able to address your objection more accurately and avoid talking past you.
 
I maintain that it takes a new heart to accept what is already believed. it is not impossible to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. But unless one is born again, one will refuse to believe it.

You can maintain whatever you want ..
sanctification cannot and does not precede justification,
nor does regeneration precede justification... nowhere found in scripture.

The strategy it to map out some type of moral inability first, based on isolated verses, and then work backwards/read into the text that some type of activation must occur prior to belief, that is not handling the text correctly.

One does not become saved which is >>>> born from above/born again, and then is saved, nonsensical.
 
I maintain that it takes a new heart to accept what is already believed.
They believe a bad tree can bring forth good fruit, well, perhaps they do not see faith as a good fruit, they certainly do not believe it is something given/a gift, although again Scripture plainly says all good things come from above (meaning God)... they call accepting what Scripture plainly states eisegesis while their distortions and lies they call proper exegesis. You may also discover that they do not believe what the Bible says about none being good, for they downplay that to beat the band = man is not that bad they say, their opinion once again trumping what The Bible actually says. Perhaps if they looked in a mirror and saw what was really there? But no. It is all part of their heresy. They rewrite the words of Jesus Christ and/or applaud those who do so, agreeing amongst themselves that God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will for Him to act unilaterally. They say a lot that is even more wicked and vile than that. The free will crowd makes up a lot of stuff and says it's taught in the Bible when it is not in the Bible at all. In fact they contradict the very words of Jesus Christ... and because they don't like what Jesus says, some will rewrite what He said, because simply denying His words isn't enough.
 
You don't get it!
Clearly you don't because if God loved the Nephilim He would be loving Demonic Entities. So it's obvious why God wouldn't love them even though you incorrectly meant something else because you don't understand what the Nephilim were in those days. It was the lineage of Seth and Cain that mixed with the Fallen Angels.
 
They believe a bad tree can bring forth good fruit, well, perhaps they do not see faith as a good fruit, they certainly do not believe it is something given/a gift, although again Scripture plainly says all good things come from above (meaning God)... they call accepting what Scripture plainly states eisegesis while their distortions and lies they call proper exegesis. You may also discover that they do not believe what the Bible says about none being good, for they downplay that to beat the band = man is not that bad they say, their opinion once again trumping what The Bible actually says. Perhaps if they looked in a mirror and saw what was really there? But no. It is all part of their heresy. They rewrite the words of Jesus Christ and/or applaud those who do so, agreeing amongst themselves that God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will for Him to act unilaterally. They say a lot that is even more wicked and vile than that. The free will crowd makes up a lot of stuff and says it's taught in the Bible when it is not in the Bible at all. In fact they contradict the very words of Jesus Christ... and because they don't like what Jesus says, some will rewrite what He said, because simply denying His words isn't enough.

That’s what happens, Magenta, when someone treats man as a co-savior with Christ instead of recognizing Christ alone as Savior, as God intended. It leads them to distort the gospel and add doctrines that clearly do not belong there.
 
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The problem with tulip is that it depicts God as unjust and hating half of humanity, which is heresy!
You depict God as acting and doing things the way YOU would if YOU were God.

Instead of trusting Him and His Word on the matter.

No one has yet said why some believe the Word, while others don’t.

I think I know why.
 
Clearly you don't because if God loved the Nephilim He would be loving Demonic Entities. So it's obvious why God wouldn't love them even though you incorrectly meant something else because you don't understand what the Nephilim were in those days. It was the lineage of Seth and Cain that mixed with the Fallen Angels.
You still dont get it
 
Clearly you don't because if God loved the Nephilim He would be loving Demonic Entities. So it's obvious why God wouldn't love them even though you incorrectly meant something else because you don't understand what the Nephilim were in those days. It was the lineage of Seth and Cain that mixed with the Fallen Angels.
It was men like Noah whom God destroyed in the flood, men He created Gen 6:6-7

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The hebrew word for man is 'āḏām mankind

You dont get it
 
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Yes the ability to believe all manner of things exists within each person, and the ability to place our faith in all manner of ideas, people etc., etc.,exist within each person.

To say God has decided to create human beings from birth in state of being prohibited from placing their faith in Christ Jesus unless he allows it, is not biblical and I could use stronger language but I will not but the word would be accurate.

The stronger language is in Gal. 1:6-9.
 
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Are you sure that is the right question?

First of all, if I was trying to affirm TULIP, I would have stated it somewhere in what I said.

Second of all, TULIP is a five-point theological framework. One can not affirm TULIP all at once. One needs to deal with each of the five points individually. Which of the five points of TULIP was I affirming?

Finally, why does it matter? All that REALY matters is whether or not what I said is true.

I can see you are hesitant to disavow any point of TULIP, so I will go first.
I was raised in the SBC denomination, which affirms the P = OSAS, but
when I read the Bible for myself I discovered/learned the following:


Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

Thus, I changed my belief from OSAS to AIP (apostasy is possible).

BTW, those who commit apostasy may be described as totally depraved or unredeemable per Heb. 6:4-6.

This leaves only two more of TULIP to disavow.

Over...
 
The question is still valid. Is God commanding something that is impossible to perform? Can I give myself a new heart and a new spirit? I don't see how that is possible.

Hence the need for harmonization of Scripture: God gives a new heart to sinners willing to cooperate with His HS/GW
(Matt. 23:37; Deut. 30:19).