They can be simultaneous some commentators view it that way but .......definitely faith/belief precedes justification and sanctification and ........ sanctification definitely cannot precede justification.
Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe
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They can be simultaneous some commentators view it that way but .......definitely faith/belief precedes justification and sanctification and ........ sanctification definitely cannot precede justification.
Because He was regenerated, in fact the Spirit of regeneration is the blessing of Abraham Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
This is not about soteriology.. this is about the expansion of the Gospel to the gentile.
Try again.
His death sanctified them and Justified them at the same time. Christ sanctification at the cross set them apart and
- to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g37/kjv/tr/0-1/
And Justified them legally Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
If Christ died for you, one is born legally sanctified and Justified from the womb, lest you say His death didnt satisfy Gods law and justice..
Well yes that keeps you system in tact, but again, nowhere does scripture state a baby is born justified and sanctified because they happen to be born into the limited atonement camp.
Oh yes, this does remind me of that Particular Baptist person on here a while back who stated just out of nowhere came to clear realization she was one of the elect.
You are really going down some extra biblical path here.
it is redemption from the curse of the Law, and the fruit thereof
again redemption brings the fruit of the Spirit, the blessing of Abraham Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Was Abraham a Son ! Yes or how can his children be and he wasnt
Gal 3:7,26
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Was Jeremiah born sanctified ?
Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
How about the Baptist Lk 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Was he born therefore Justified ? Or was he born condemned ?
Yes, that was the Achilles heel of Augustine's belief system,
which had a way of preserving MFW but not divine love and justness.
Well, in Romand 4 Paul indicates that Abraham was the father of all who have saving faith = are regenerated,
but the OT stage of revelation did not realize and state this truth.
No its biblical truth God destroyed Man in Gen6 and the conditions of the world will be similar when Jesus returns to destroy the world with fire Matt 24:29-51
Scripture’s warnings against apostasy do not imply that every believer stands in real danger of falling away; they simply reveal the true consequences of abandoning Christ. Warnings introduce contingency, not inevitability. At the same time, Scripture teaches that God’s saving work in the regenerate heart forecloses final apostasy: the Spirit seals, preserves, and ensures perseverance. Thus the warnings function as one of God’s appointed means to keep His people faithful. They are real threats that produce real endurance, not predictions that the elect may be lost. God secures the end by securing the means.
When Peter says that God is “not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance,” he is not making a philosophical statement about God’s universal intentions; he is explaining why Jesus has not yet returned. The delay is not evidence of divine slowness but of divine patience. Peter knows that history will contain countless people—far beyond his own generation—whom God will bring to repentance. From Peter’s vantage point, your repentance and mine were still future events, part of the long story God is weaving. God is waiting, not because He is uncertain, but because He is allowing every human story He intends to redeem to reach its appointed moment. The “all” refers to all those whose repentance lies ahead in the unfolding of history. Christ’s return is delayed so that the full number of those God is calling will, in fact, come. God is not slow; He is completing His narrative of mercy.
The bigger question for us is why God withholds his mercy from some people. In order to understand the profundity of this question, we need to review what mercy really is.
God’s mercy never rises from anything He finds in us; it rises entirely from who He is. Scripture insists that mercy is not a reaction to human worthiness but an expression of God’s sovereign freedom—“I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.” Mercy, by definition, requires nothing from the pitied; it is goodness shown to those who have no claim, no leverage, and no prior qualification. The moment we imagine that God needed a reason to be merciful to us, we have smuggled merit back into grace. The truth is far more humbling and far more hopeful: God is merciful because He wills to be, and nothing outside of God can compel, limit, or justify His compassion. That is why He can have mercy on anyone He wants, and why no one is beyond the reach of His kindness.
When Peter says that God is “not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance,” he is not making a philosophical statement about God’s universal intentions; he is explaining why Jesus has not yet returned. The delay is not evidence of divine slowness but of divine patience. Peter knows that history will contain countless people—far beyond his own generation—whom God will bring to repentance. From Peter’s vantage point, your repentance and mine were still future events, part of the long story God is weaving. God is waiting, not because He is uncertain, but because He is allowing every human story He intends to redeem to reach its appointed moment. The “all” refers to all those whose repentance lies ahead in the unfolding of history. Christ’s return is delayed so that the full number of those God is calling will, in fact, come. God is not slow; He is completing His narrative of mercy.
The bigger question for us is why God withholds his mercy from some people. In order to understand the profundity of this question, we need to review what mercy really is.
God’s mercy never rises from anything He finds in us; it rises entirely from who He is. Scripture insists that mercy is not a reaction to human worthiness but an expression of God’s sovereign freedom—“I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.” Mercy, by definition, requires nothing from the pitied; it is goodness shown to those who have no claim, no leverage, and no prior qualification. The moment we imagine that God needed a reason to be merciful to us, we have smuggled merit back into grace. The truth is far more humbling and far more hopeful: God is merciful because He wills to be, and nothing outside of God can compel, limit, or justify His compassion. That is why He can have mercy on anyone He wants, and why no one is beyond the reach of His kindness.
On the contrary, since Jesus argues that one must be born from above in order to recognize the kingdom of God, we interpret his statement not as a conditional, but as a marker. In isolation, his statement sounds like a conditional. But if we put the whole message together, it sounds like a promise.
Those who are born again will believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and none of them will fail to be granted eternal life.
I don't think in terms of Irresistible grace. That phrase has always bothered me.
The new birth is like Jesus healing a blind man. A blind man doesn’t debate whether he wants to see; the moment sight is given, he sees reality as it truly is. That is what God does in the born‑again event. He blesses a person with such deep spiritual clarity that Jesus’ identity is no longer a guess, a leap, or a wish—it becomes obvious. The person believes not because he must, and not because he worked up “faith,” but because once the eyes of the heart are opened, the truth of Christ is unmistakable. This is why the term “irresistible grace” is misleading. Grace isn’t something you fight against; it’s God giving sight to someone who could not see. And once you see, you don’t choose sight over blindness—you simply live in the light that has been given.
Think of it this way: before the new birth, the gospel is like sunlight to a blind man—real, bright, and life‑giving, but not yet perceived. When God gives new birth, He doesn’t coerce the will; He restores the capacity to see. Suddenly the beauty, authority, and truth of Jesus become evident. The person believes because the reality of Christ has become visible, not because he forced himself to trust. The new birth is God’s healing act, not our decision. It is the moment when God grants sight, and with sight comes conviction, clarity, and joy. Faith is simply the natural response of someone whose eyes have finally been opened.
Many Christians instinctively define sanctification as the lifelong process of becoming a better person, so they assume it must follow justification. But the biblical word does not mean “moral improvement.” It comes from the Latin *sanctus* and the underlying Hebrew and Greek terms meaning set apart, claimed, or made holy in the sense of belonging to God. A sanctified person is not someone who has become ethically superior but someone whom God has marked out as His own. In Scripture, sanctification is first about status, not behavior—God choosing, claiming, and consecrating a people for Himself. When we use the biblical definition rather than the popular one, the order becomes clear: God sets apart a people, and *because* they are His, He brings them to faith and justifies them.
This is why Paul can say in Ephesians that God chose us “before the foundation of the world.” Sanctification—God’s act of setting apart a people for Himself—does not begin at conversion; it begins in God’s eternal purpose. He determined beforehand whom He would bless, call, and bring to life. That eternal act of setting apart is the root from which everything else grows: the new heart, the gift of faith, and the declaration of justification. In this sense, sanctification precedes justification because God’s choice to consecrate a people is what guarantees that they will one day believe. Moral transformation comes later as the fruit of belonging to God, not the essence of sanctification itself. Sanctification is God’s sovereign decision to claim a people; justification is His declaration over those whom He has already claimed.
Many Christians instinctively define sanctification as the lifelong process of becoming a better person, so they assume it must follow justification. But the biblical word does not mean “moral improvement.” It comes from the Latin *sanctus* and the underlying Hebrew and Greek terms meaning set apart, claimed, or made holy in the sense of belonging to God. A sanctified person is not someone who has become ethically superior but someone whom God has marked out as His own. In Scripture, sanctification is first about status, not behavior—God choosing, claiming, and consecrating a people for Himself. When we use the biblical definition rather than the popular one, the order becomes clear: God sets apart a people, and *because* they are His, He brings them to faith and justifies them.
This is why Paul can say in Ephesians that God chose us “before the foundation of the world.” Sanctification—God’s act of setting apart a people for Himself—does not begin at conversion; it begins in God’s eternal purpose. He determined beforehand whom He would bless, call, and bring to life. That eternal act of setting apart is the root from which everything else grows: the new heart, the gift of faith, and the declaration of justification. In this sense, sanctification precedes justification because God’s choice to consecrate a people is what guarantees that they will one day believe. Moral transformation comes later as the fruit of belonging to God, not the essence of sanctification itself. Sanctification is God’s sovereign decision to claim a people; justification is His declaration over those whom He has already claimed.
Actually, Noah had 3 sons and in the Hebrew the wives were like the Daughters of men from the lineage of Cain. Think about Nimrod from that lineage building the Tower of Babel. And then multiple that lineage when it was scattered abroad. Look at Abraham, great great grandson of Noah and his grandson Enoch. Even Abraham's father was an idol maker and worshipper.
It's mostly the lineage of Cain that's going through the Tribulation.