It is time to rethink Sola Scriptura?

[biblestudent78]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

 

[ResidentAlien]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

God's word isn't the problem. The problem is people who don't understand it, or don't don't take it to heart and do what it says.

 

[tablet123]

The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in history because more people drag their bias, different beliefs, the flesh, and the way they want to hear it in to it.

The Roman Empire did not get rid of their pagan and occult ways and it became their foundation.

Joseph Smith had a belief system not part of the Bible and it became his foundation the Mormon Church.

The same with Christian Science, Scientology, and the new age christianity.

People that do not want to give up sin, the flesh, and deny the power thereof loving sin more than God and do not come to the truth but think they are saved.

All the religions interpret the Bible according to their religion.

Which Islam believes the Quran is the last book of the Bible and Jesus will defeat the antichrist and rule with Sharia law.

Even some in Science are saying that they have the correct interpretation of the Bible by new discoveries giving them a new perspective of things and soon the Christians and the atheists will be debating over the Bible.

The antichrist will deceive the world with a false interpretation of the Bible that exalts people with all religions interpreted that way that is doctrines of devils and seducing spirits and the time will come that people will not want to hear the word of God according to the truth but their own lusts.

And in general misinterpreting and with a vastness not done for any other religious book.

Joh 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.

Joh 7:45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

Joh 7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

Jesus spoke so boldly to the officers that He put doubt in their mind and they thought we better leave this man alone for if He is telling the truth we do not want to go against God.

And so it is with the Bible that the world is scared of the Bible so they say leave it alone and will interpret it that is pleasing to them.

And when the antichrist, New Age Christ, pushes the new age christianity the world will settle on that.

The Bible is not the problem but people are the problem.

 

[Lovette]

Sola Scriptura in principle is not wrong, but please keep in mind that the bible is not an idol, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, " fellowship, worship and partisanship are NOT among the purposes. It is sufficient but not exhaustive, and not a single translation is perfect, there're always errors and inaccuracies, translators' own beliefs and biases, including KJV, and the more you study the original language, the more such errors and inaccuracies you'll know. You also need to be familiar with ancient middle east history and hebrew culture in order to understand the weird references.

Also, most importantly, the NT is not a second covenant, but a RENEWED covenant, the fulfillment of the covenant by the church of both Israelites and Gentiles, which the ancient Israel failed. Therefore the NT could only be correctly interpreted by the OT, not the other way around. I often bring up this analogy, that here's a three volume book series, you skip volume 1 and 2 and start with 3; or there's a three season tv series, you skip season 1 and 3 and start with 3, most assuredly you'll be confused and clueless.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

The Devil has convinced the world that the problem is God.
Rather than take Him at His Word, Satan has actively called God a liar.

Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The problem is not with God's Word.
The problem is with Satan and his followers who falsely claim to represent God.
Their knowledge, is from the Devil. That's why they have fake gospels, fake bibles, philosophies and vain deceit after the traditions of man, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ.

John 8:37. Ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

No, it is not time to rethink Scripture only.
Jesus said, I AM the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh into the Father but by me.

 

[timf]

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

The idea that the failures of men can be solved by ignoring the one hope they have seems illogical.

 

[GWH]

Sola Scriptura in principle is not wrong, but please keep in mind that the bible is not an idol, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, " fellowship, worship and partisanship are NOT among the purposes. It is sufficient but not exhaustive, and not a single translation is perfect, there're always errors and inaccuracies, translators' own beliefs and biases, including KJV, and the more you study the original language, the more such errors and inaccuracies you'll know. You also need to be familiar with ancient middle east history and hebrew culture in order to understand the weird references.

Also, most importantly, the NT is not a second covenant, but a RENEWED covenant, the fulfillment of the covenant by the church of both Israelites and Gentiles, which the ancient Israel failed. Therefore the NT could only be correctly interpreted by the OT, not the other way around. I often bring up this analogy, that here's a three volume book series, you skip volume 1 and 2 and start with 3; or there's a three season tv series, you skip season 1 and 3 and start with 3, most assuredly you'll be confused and clueless.

Directionally your hermeneutic is bass-ackwards per Heb. 7:11-10:1.
New wine goes in new wineskins (Matt. 9:17).
Going in reverse is perverse per Paul (Gal. 1:6-9, 3:1-14, 19-25, 4:8-11, 5:1-12).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Also, most importantly, the NT is not a second covenant, but a RENEWED covenant, the fulfillment of the covenant by the church of both Israelites and Gentiles, which the ancient Israel failed.

Most definitely a falsehood. The new covenant made with Israel and Judah was an entirely new covenant built on better promises. It was not like the first covenant God made with Israel when he led them out of Egypt. The writer of Hebrews made a distinction between the first and second covenants. And things that have grown old and worn out aren't renewed, they're discarded.

In saying, new (καινός) [covenant], he has made the first [covenant] old. And the one being worn out and growing old is near disappearance. Hebrews 8:13​

G2537 καινός kainos (kai-nos') adj.​

1. brand-new (i.e. newly made or introduced).​

2. (also, by implication) distinctly better.​

God never changed existing covenants because that was unlawful to do. When he wanted to change or add something to his portfolio of promises he made entirely new covenants.

Brethren, I speak according to man. Even a covenant of a man having been made authoritative, no one sets aside or makes additions. Galatians 3:15​

 

[GWH]

Most definitely a falsehood. The new covenant made with Israel and Judah was an entirely new covenant built on better promises. It was not like the first covenant God made with Israel when he led them out of Egypt. The writer of Hebrews made a distinction between the first and second covenants. And things that have grown old and worn out aren't renewed, they're discarded.

In saying, new (καινός) [covenant], he has made the first [covenant] old. And the one being worn out and growing old is near disappearance. Hebrews 8:13​

G2537 καινός kainos (kai-nos') adj.​

1. brand-new (i.e. newly made or introduced).​

2. (also, by implication) distinctly better.​

God never changed existing covenants because that was unlawful to do. When he wanted to change or add something to his portfolio of promises he made entirely new covenants.

Brethren, I speak according to man. Even a covenant of a man having been made authoritative, no one sets aside or makes additions. Galatians 3:15​

Well, maybe not entirely. The OC did prepare the way for the NC, so there is are historical, theological and spiritual connections, but some on CC do not connect the dots correctly and come too close to perverse heresy for comfort.

 

[Lovette]

Most definitely a falsehood. The new covenant made with Israel and Judah was an entirely new covenant built on better promises. It was not like the first covenant God made with Israel when he led them out of Egypt. The writer of Hebrews made a distinction between the first and second covenants. And things that have grown old and worn out aren't renewed, they're discarded.

In saying, new (καινός) [covenant], he has made the first [covenant] old. And the one being worn out and growing old is near disappearance. Hebrews 8:13​

G2537 καινός kainos (kai-nos') adj.​

1. brand-new (i.e. newly made or introduced).​

2. (also, by implication) distinctly better.​

God never changed existing covenants because that was unlawful to do. When he wanted to change or add something to his portfolio of promises he made entirely new covenants.

Brethren, I speak according to man. Even a covenant of a man having been made authoritative, no one sets aside or makes additions. Galatians 3:15​

There's only one Abrahamic covenant, all Christians are adopted as children of Abraham through Christ.

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

 

[Lovette]

Directionally your hermeneutic is bass-ackwards per Heb. 7:11-10:1.
New wine goes in new wineskins (Matt. 9:17).
Going in reverse is perverse per Paul (Gal. 1:6-9, 3:1-14, 19-25, 4:8-11, 5:1-12).

You can't understand the NT correctly without the OT. Without law you don't know sin, without sin you don't know grace, without grace you don't know Christ. That's logic.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. (Rom. 7:7-8)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There's only one Abrahamic covenant, all Christians are adopted as children of Abraham through Christ.

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

God made two covenants with Abraham: the unconditional blood covenant of Genesis 15:18 in which he promised to give the land to Christ, and the conditional covenant of circumcision in Genensis 17 that established and defined the people of God.

The first was fulfilled and completed when God gave the land (indeed, the whole world) to Christ; and the 2nd was rendered obsolete and of no value when God made the new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah that was made authoritative at Christ's death.

 

[ResidentAlien]

There's only one Abrahamic covenant, all Christians are adopted as children of Abraham through Christ.

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Those who have the faith of Abraham are children of Abraham; but to say that the reason for Christ's coming, and for the second covenant was so people could be adopted into Abraham sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." John 8:56

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You can't understand the NT correctly without the OT. Without law you don't know sin, without sin you don't know grace, without grace you don't know Christ. That's logic.

This is a Christian fable and urban legend. Of course we can know what sin is apart from the law because the spirit has been poured out on mankind. I was convicted of sin before I was saved and knew the 10 commandments, or any other part of the law, because the spirit of truth witnessed to my heart that I had done wrong. When Paul say he wouldn't have known sin apart from the law, he was speaking for himself, not anyone else. At most he was speaking for Israel under the law that did not have the holy spirit to witness of their sin.

 

[Lovette]

God made two covenants with Abraham: the unconditional blood covenant of Genesis 15:18 in which he promised to give the land to Christ, and the conditional covenant of circumcision in Genensis 17 that established and defined the people of God.

The first was fulfilled and completed when God gave the land (indeed, the whole world) to Christ; and the 2nd was rendered obsolete and of no value when God made the new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah that was made authoritative at Christ's death.

It's called the NEW covenant because the old was broken, at mount Sinai. Israel had sinned and broken that covenant, which God would restore, through Christ.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ” (Lev. 27:44-45)

 

[Lovette]

Those who have the faith of Abraham are children of Abraham; but to say that the reason for Christ's coming, and for the second covenant was so people could be adopted into Abraham sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." John 8:56

Ridiculous or not, it is written, " if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed," ridiculous or not.

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:29)

 

[ResidentAlien]

Ridiculous or not, it is written, " if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed," ridiculous or not.

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:29)

That's right, we're Abraham's seed because we have faith in Christ, not faith in Abraham.

 

[DavidLamb]

There's only one Abrahamic covenant, all Christians are adopted as children of Abraham through Christ.

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

So what do these verses from Hebrews mean? They talk of a first and second covenant, and an old and new covenant:

(Heb 8:7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
(Heb 8:8) Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
(Heb 8:9) NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
(Heb 8:10) FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Hebrews also refers to Jesus Christ as the Mediator of the new covenant:

(Heb 12:24) to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

[Lovette]

This is a Christian fable and urban legend. Of course we can know what sin is apart from the law because the spirit has been poured out on mankind. I was convicted of sin before I was saved and knew the 10 commandments, or any other part of the law, because the spirit of truth witnessed to my heart that I had done wrong. When Paul say he wouldn't have known sin apart from the law, he was speaking for himself, not anyone else. At most he was speaking for Israel under the law that did not have the holy spirit to witness of their sin.

I don't believe you. You're speaking of conscience, which is not sufficient and objective. In Paul's example, "covet“ is a quite antiquated word, which is not only a desire for other people's possession, but a resentment against them, for they have what you don't. I doubt you'd be convicted of it before you knew the ten commandments.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's called the NEW covenant because the old was broken, at mount Sinai. Israel had sinned and broken that covenant, which God would restore, through Christ.

Yes they broke that blood covenant, the penalty for which was death. But Moses interceded, and God spared them. Then 40 years later he made an entirely different covenant with them in Moab binding them to the law and it's blessings and cursings to condition their dwelling in the land they were about to enter into.

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. Deuteronomy 29:1​