It is time to rethink Sola Scriptura?

[Lovette]

That's right, we're Abraham's seed because we have faith in Christ, not faith in Abraham.

I've never suggested that we ought to have faith in Abraham. All that I'm saying is that through Christ, we're covered by the Abrahamic covenant. It's different from the old for its inclusiveness, it's extended from free Jewish men only to gentiles, women and servants.

 

[Lovette]

Yes they broke that blood covenant, the penalty for which was death. But Moses interceded, and God spared them. Then 40 years later he made an entirely different covenant with them in Moab binding them to the law and it's blessings and cursings to condition their dwelling in the land they were about to enter into.

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. Deuteronomy 29:1​

The law was a temporary fix, ultimately the covenant was restored by Christ with his own blood.

 

[JohnDB]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

Sola Scriptura is the flagship of Calvinism....a death sentence ideology for any church engaging in the theological practice.

Let's put it this way,
You know the alphabet outside of the scriptures....
So it's now impossible for you to claim "only scripture" contains knowledge of God. God is in all and over all.
All meaning literally ALL.

Sure, scriptures are God's gift to mankind and always sweet....and a miracle all in themselves
However, we need more.

Hermeneutics is a Blend of Arts and sciences used to determine what God's word has said to us.

Meaning....

Hebrew is a metaphoric language that only uses verbs to say everything.....there is never going to be an equivalent language. Especially noun based languages like English. Especially since English speakers are always trying to uncolor everything. Over ⅔ of the Bible is poetry....and 100% of it references more poetry.

Then the scriptures were written starting over 5800 years ago on the other side of the planet from the English speakers. And the latest portions were written around 2000 years ago. Again...on the other side of the planet.

Then....all these writers lived in completely different cultures then than what exists today. We really don't have a Caste system in the world societies....we have a few remnant holdover aspects from a Caste system still in the world...but...not really. Marriage rituals and dating rituals have changed drastically. Education system and church services have all changed dramatically over the thousands of years.

So the Bible had to be translated into English....and those translators did so at great personal cost. Many of what are considered to be harmless of the initial translators inaccuracies are left in....such as Jesus being a carpenter in Nazareth instead of stone mason working and commuting to Sepphoris....

So....a flat reading of scriptures is not recommended if you want the truth.

However....
Never underestimate the hubris, hypocrisy, and pride mankind can own.
Also....
People always have "itching ears". They gravitate towards people telling us what we want to hear instead of what we need to hear. Unfortunately this is always done by those with huge egos and lots of Hubris.

Difference of opinion? That's going to happen. Zero remedy. Is it corporate sin that causes maladies/sickness or is it individual sin? That has been argued for the past 2000 years and continued today as Calvinism vx Arminianism.

I'm just gonna hide in the corner till the masks get put away and the fires have burned out.

 

[Seeker47]

This is a Christian fable and urban legend. Of course we can know what sin is apart from the law because the spirit has been poured out on mankind. I was convicted of sin before I was saved and knew the 10 commandments, or any other part of the law, because the spirit of truth witnessed to my heart that I had done wrong. When Paul say he wouldn't have known sin apart from the law, he was speaking for himself, not anyone else. At most he was speaking for Israel under the law that did not have the holy spirit to witness of their sin.

If all know sin there would be no sin. One cannot know what sin is and keep doing it; although they can redefine it to their own terms and keep truckin' on!

 

[JohnDB]

It's called the NEW covenant because the old was broken, at mount Sinai. Israel had sinned and broken that covenant, which God would restore, through Christ.

No....
Just no.
You really have never darkened the door of a church have you?

 

[GWH]

You can't understand the NT correctly without the OT. Without law you don't know sin, without sin you don't know grace, without grace you don't know Christ. That's logic.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. (Rom. 7:7-8)

One cannot understand the NT fully without knowledge of the OT, but one can understand GRFS sufficiently without it,
because the NT restates the crucial points.

Re the Abrahamic covenant: per the NT Abraham is a child of God through faith in Christ as revealed,
although because he was the first believer, he can be called the father of believers.

 

[lrs68]

Sola Scripture is a created method to apply in a debate when losing a theological viewpoint. Scripture was never meant to be singled out Verse by Verse but rather understood from the entire message. Scripture once came as a Scroll written down as a letter. That is how it was intended to be understood. Not by cherry picking Verses to attack someone with.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The law was a temporary fix, ultimately the covenant was restored by Christ with his own blood.

The covenant wasn't restored. The relationship was restored with a brand new covenant. New covenant, new wineskins, new tomb that had never been used. Same word.

Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins: else the wineskinsbreak, and the wine runneth out, and the wineskins perish: but they put new wine into new (καινός) wineskins, and both are preserved. Matthew 9:17​

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And laid it in his own new (καινός) tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. Matthew 27:60​

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[Mem]

Jesus picked up the law and He fulfilled it. Aa a merchant fulfills an order, or a pharmacist fulfills a prescription, and He submitted Himself to the law in one hand that would give life if you fulfilled it and picked up the world that was broke and couldn't pay with the other. The law was useless to the world because it didn't have to power to give life to anyone that couldn't fulfill it, which was everyone the whole world, except for Him. The world couldn't pay it, so He paid it for the world, at the cross. He paid the Debtor honored and received His payment is evidenced by the 'change' from His 'overpayment' (His worth IS WAY beyond that of the world) His resurrection, made the Chief Executor of the New Covenant which' commandment is Believe that and you will be saved, and not only saved but adopted sons and daughters (part of the terms of reconciliation of His overpayment).

How did anyone become a son of God before this? And how were they 'disinherited'?
Those in Christ can never be disinherited in any case because the Perfect Son will never be disinherited.

 

[Lovette]

The covenant wasn't restored. The relationship was restored with a brand new covenant. New covenant, new wineskins, new tomb that had never been used. Same word.

Neither do men put new wine into old wineskins: else the wineskinsbreak, and the wine runneth out, and the wineskins perish: but they put new wine into new (καινός) wineskins, and both are preserved. Matthew 9:17​

​

And laid it in his own new (καινός) tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. Matthew 27:60​

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Yes it is. Lord remembers the covenant he broke.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ”(Lev. 26:44-45)

 

[DavidLamb]

Sola Scripture is a created method to apply in a debate when losing a theological viewpoint. Scripture was never meant to be singled out Verse by Verse but rather understood from the entire message. Scripture once came as a Scroll written down as a letter. That is how it was intended to be understood. Not by cherry picking Verses to attack someone with.

But the matter of the Bible being a coherent whole rather than individual verses to be cherry-picked does not mean that the idea of Sola Scriptura is wrong. "Sola Scriptura" means "Scripture alone," not cherry-picking verses from Scripture.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sola scriptura is the formula for error because it doesn't include the witness of the holy spirit. The correct hermeneutic method is sola scriptura et spiritus - by scripture and spirit alone

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes it is. Lord remembers the covenant he broke.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ”(Lev. 26:44-45)

That promise has nothing to do with the new covenant. It's referring to bringing them back to the land from their Babylonian and Assyrian captivities.

 

[Lovette]

That promise has nothing to do with the new covenant. It's referring to bringing them back to the land from their Babylonian and Assyrian captivities.

It has everything to do. Their return was the end of the seventy year exile, a restoration of Israel, not covenant.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It has everything to do. Their return was the end of the seventy year exile, a restoration of Israel, not covenant.

Right because God remembered his covenant he made with their ancestors in Moab to make them his people. Again it has nothing to do with the new covenant

 

[Lovette]

Right because God remembered his covenant he made with their ancestors in Moab to make them his people. Again it has nothing to do with the new covenant

It has everything to do. The new covenant also makes the lost sheep his people. Lord Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel.

 

[NightTwister]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

I stopped reading at "45,000."

 

[Aaron56]

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

This is the greater issue, in my opinion.

The main strike against Sola Scriptura (ss), in my view, is the belief that everyone can come to the truth by just reading the scriptures. If you recall, ss arose out of the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's that ultimately rejected the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Further on, pressure from the Age of Reason (17th century) cemented education and higher learning as the standards of man's progression. Advanced degrees and study, above most other qualities, qualified people for leadership, even leadership within the church.

The Bible actually says that a certain person has all authority in heaven and on earth (the Lord) and that that person has charged His unique delegate, the Holy Spirit, as the One who dispenses that grace to men. The pattern seen in scripture is the Lord multiplying Himself within others by the dispensation of grace and then that grace, so given, being dispensed from carriers of grace to others. Jesus had the Twelve; Paul had Titus, Timothy and others; Peter had others; John had others; etc. By this progression the Lord built the House of God in scripture. He is still building this way. Few receive it.

 

[lrs68]

But the matter of the Bible being a coherent whole rather than individual verses to be cherry-picked does not mean that the idea of Sola Scriptura is wrong. "Sola Scriptura" means "Scripture alone," not cherry-picking verses from Scripture.

Look at Doctrines for example. There's a hundred Verses speaking about the Blessings of God and how many men of God were wealthy beyond means. But you can also present this in a way that God wants you to have abundance and use the formula we see that Blessed Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon and so forth. You can claim that from these Scriptures there should be a Doctrine called Prosperity and you actually have true Biblical proof that comes directly from Sola Scripture alone.

Is that Cherry Picking?

 

[DavidLamb]

Look at Doctrines for example. There's a hundred Verses speaking about the Blessings of God and how many men of God were wealthy beyond means. But you can also present this in a way that God wants you to have abundance and use the formula we see that Blessed Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon and so forth. You can claim that from these Scriptures there should be a Doctrine called Prosperity and you actually have true Biblical proof that comes directly from Sola Scripture alone.

Is that Cherry Picking?

Yes that is cherry-picking. It is not what the Reformers meant by Sola Scriptura. They meant that Scripture alone is the authority for what Christians believe, not church traditions.