How long have you been single?

[Lovette]

Well, sure, we can have unrealistic fantasies about romance or sex. That doesn't change the fact that romance and sex can still be pleasurable. That's one of the reasons many of us want it so badly. Nothing wrong with that.

The Bible does not condemn sex or sexual desire. There's sinful ways to have sex, yes. But sex between a married couple is what the original norm was. It's good, and it's supposed to be good. That's how God designed it. Are fornication and adultery the only possible ways to have sex?

And do you mean that you, personally have no desire for sex? If so, well, great. Good for you. Not everybody's like that. For you, they're abstract. For others, not so much. Some people have strong desires for sex. That's fine.

You seem to think that romance or marriage is inevitably doomed to failure. If so, I find that puzzling, to be honest.

I do have desire for sex, but once again, with WHO? Yes, of course romance and sex can still be pleasurable, I like reading romance novels and watching Hallmark - as a straight man, believe it or not, but that's just that, pleasurable fantasies between fictional characters. I'm wise enough to know that I'm just an observer, I don't picture myself in these fantasies.

And I'm not saying that "romance or marriage is inevitably doomed to failure", I'm just reminding you and everybody else, that this relationship progress is not an escalator, but a rock climb. If you're with somebody who's practically just a stranger or a mere acquaintance, yet in your mind she's already your wife and you feel you're entitled to her body for sex, based off of your justification of wanting sex "so badly" as a natural desire and a part of being human, then I'm afraid that is indeed inevitably doomed to failure, it would only leave you hurt and anguished, and probably that somebody as well.

 

[RodColeman]

I do have desire for sex, but once again, with WHO? Yes, of course romance and sex can still be pleasurable, I like reading romance novels and watching Hallmark - as a straight man, believe it or not, but that's just that, pleasurable fantasies between fictional characters. I'm wise enough to know that I'm just an observer, I don't picture myself in these fantasies.

And I'm not saying that "romance or marriage is inevitably doomed to failure", I'm just reminding you and everybody else, that this relationship progress is not an escalator, but a rock climb. If you're with somebody who's practically just a stranger or a mere acquaintance, yet in your mind she's already your wife and you feel you're entitled to her body for sex, based off of your justification of wanting sex "so badly" as a natural desire and a part of being human, then I'm afraid that is indeed inevitably doomed to failure, it would only leave you hurt and anguished, and probably that somebody as well.

It's fine to have a desire for sex. But (ideally at least), me dating someone or even being attracted to someone does not mean that I view myself as entitled to having sex with her. Or that i already view her as my "wife." I've never thought that way about any woman I ever dated.

A Christian should do better, certainly. Though I'm sure there's worldly people who think in those terms.

 

[Lovette]

It definitely is. Many of us have tried to help him, but I think all the long-time members have given up at this point.

Anyways, no judgement if you decide to continue but if you actually get through to him I think you'll be the first one who ever did lol.

Best!

The only help I need is to understand what's the point of seeking a mate who may or may not exist, a highly risky investment in this era which leave you disappointed, saddened, humiliated, traumatized, scammed, scandalized, even mired with legal trouble. Help me understand this gambler's mindset first. In this gamble you don't just put your money on the table, you put your core being, your whole body, soul, emotional wellbeing on the table, and you keep telling me that taking such caution is disregard of God's design?

 

[Lovette]

It's fine to have a desire for sex. But (ideally at least), me dating someone or even being attracted to someone does not mean that I view myself as entitled to having sex with her. Or that i already view her as my "wife." I've never thought that way about any woman I ever dated.

A Christian should do better, certainly. Though I'm sure there's worldly people who think in those terms.

And that's what I've been saying, carnal desire, especially unsatiated sexual desire, is the root of all agonies and melancholies. It's not fine to burden yourself with such desires. I follow Lord Jesus, for his yoke is easy and his burden is light.

 

[RodColeman]

The only help I need is to understand what's the point of seeking a mate who may or may not exist, a highly risky investment in this era which leave you disappointed, saddened, humiliated, traumatized, scammed, scandalized, even mired with legal trouble. Help me understand this gambler's mindset first. In this gamble you don't just put your money on the table, you put your core being, your whole body, soul, emotional wellbeing on the table, and you keep telling me that taking such caution is disregard of God's design?

Yes, dating and marriage involves risk. Just like many good things that are worth doing. However, if you want to avoid those risks entirely, well, then, yes, you can choose to not bother with romantic pursuits at all. It's your choice.

Also, we don't just marry the first people we're attracted to and then just hope for the best. Evaluation is the whole point of the dating process. At least, that's how people should view it. Ideally, you should be part of a community of Christian friends and family who can help you with advice, with evaluating the match, with pre-marital counseling, etc., etc. I'm sure there's lots of idealistic couples who are infatuated and assume that "love" will take care of everything. I'm sure many of these marriages end in disaster, sadly. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Unsatiated sexual desire is not "the root of all agonies and melancholies." Sin is. We can deal with our sexual desires in godly ways. We can also deal with them in sinful ways. And people don't choose to have these desires.

 

[Lovette]

This is not Paul's only statement about marriage. What else does he say?

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. Paul says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.

You also mention that "it's much better to be yearning for marriage while staying single than yearning for singleness while staying married." Well, sure, but those aren't the only possible outcomes, are they? Are you saying that a couple enjoying a loving marriage is an impossibility?

What God did say, though not exactly command, but rather some truth bombs, on this matter is Matt. 19:11-12 and 22:30, which indicate that first, singleness is just a fate for a chunk of population; second, marriage is of this mortal life, not the afterlife in resurrection, it's most definitely NOT a taste or a preview of heaven.

“All cannot accept this saying (better not to marry), but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.” (Matt. 19:11-12)

“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage." (Lk. 20:34-35)

A couple enjoying a loving marriage is absolutely NOT an impossibility, it's rather a cliche, a "happily ever after" set up on a pedestal, even falsely advertised as a "taste or a preview of heaven", directly contradicting the Scripture.

 

[RodColeman]

What God did say, though not exactly command, but rather some truth bombs, on this matter is Matt. 19:11-12 and 22:30, which indicate that first, singleness is just a fate for a chunk of population; second, marriage is of this mortal life, not the afterlife in resurrection, it's most definitely NOT a taste or a preview of heaven.

“All cannot accept this saying (better not to marry), but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.” (Matt. 19:11-12)

“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage." (Lk. 20:34-35)

A couple enjoying a loving marriage is absolutely NOT an impossibility, it's rather a cliche, a "happily ever after" set up on a pedestal, even falsely advertised as a "taste or a preview of heaven", directly contradicting the Scripture.

OK. Doesn't change the fact that lots of people want to experience romance/marriage/sex, that these desires are normal, and that it's OK to pursue them. That stuff is all fine.

But if you're not personally interested in these things, that's fine, too.

I'm curious. When you see other Christians in dating or marriage relationships how does that make you react? Are you happy for them? Do you ever envy them? Do you view them as naive or shortsighted?

 

[Lovette]

Yes, dating and marriage involves risk. Just like many good things that are worth doing. However, if you want to avoid those risks entirely, well, then, yes, you can choose to not bother with romantic pursuits at all. It's your choice.

Also, we don't just marry the first people we're attracted to and then just hope for the best. Evaluation is the whole point of the dating process. At least, that's how people should view it. Ideally, you should be part of a community of Christian friends and family who can help you with advice, with evaluating the match, with pre-marital counseling, etc., etc. I'm sure there's lots of idealistic couples who are infatuated and assume that "love" will take care of everything. I'm sure many of these marriages end in disaster, sadly. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Unsatiated sexual desire is not "the root of all agonies and melancholies." Sin is. We can deal with our sexual desires in godly ways. We can also deal with them in sinful ways. And people don't choose to have these desires.

Here's the rub: if God brings an Eve to me as he did Adam, and I brush it off, that's my choice; however, if God does NOT bring any Eve to me, or he brings one to me and SHE brushes it off, that's God's choice.

And yes, absolutely, there're lots of idealistic couples who're happily indulged with bliss, all of them are on screen and papers, I watch them and read them almost everyday!

We don't choose to have sexual desires, we can choose to dismiss or relieve such desires, like a wave crashing on the sand. One of such "sinful ways' I can think of is bothering another innocent person with your own sinful desires, that's how we got the #MeToo movement.

 

[RodColeman]

Here's the rub: if God brings an Eve to me as he did Adam, and I brush it off, that's my choice; however, if God does NOT bring any Eve to me, or he brings one to me and SHE brushes it off, that's God's choice.

And yes, absolutely, there're lots of idealistic couples who're happily indulged with bliss, all of them are on screen and papers, I watch them and read them almost everyday!

We don't choose to have sexual desires, we can choose to dismiss or relieve such desires, like a wave crashing on the sand. One of such "sinful ways' I can think of is bothering another innocent person with your own sinful desires, that's how we got the #MeToo movement.

I don't think God's a Puppetmaster who's running every aspect of our love lives (See 1 Corinthians 7:39, for instance) Also, you don't know any happily married folks at all?

 

[Lovette]

I'm curious. When you see other Christians in dating or marriage relationships how does that make you react? Are you happy for them? Do you ever envy them? Do you view them as naive or shortsighted?

I do feel happy for them, I recognize marriage as a blessing, I dismiss the peddling of it as unbiblical propaganda, and I put it back to where it belongs - romance fictions.

I suggest you do some research on the history of "romance/marriage/sex", you'll understand that it's rather a novel and modern invention originated from the romantic era, from late 18th century to mid 19th century, a byproduct of industrialization, urbanization and immigration, as hordes of people left their native cultures and formed new communities.

 

[Lovette]

I don't think God's a Puppetmaster who's running every aspect of our love lives (See 1 Corinthians 7:39, for instance) Also, you don't know any happily married folks at all?

Don't you think that's rather a private matter between that couple?

And No, God is no "puppermaster", but if you obey him as your Lord, as stated in 1 Corinthian 7:39, then he is sovereign, everything is in his control, he gives and takes away; for everything you're given, it belongs to God, you are only a steward put in the position of manage it.

 

[RodColeman]

When the Bible says good things about marriage, is that somehow "unbiblical propaganda"?

Also, how can marriage be a "blessing," but at the same time people who say good things about are peddling "propaganda"? I don't understand that.

Also, are you saying you can't tell whether any married couples are truly happy? I mean, I assume you grew up with parents, yes? I don't know what your parents were like, of course. But you never saw them express any happiness or affection to each other?

 

[Lovette]

When the Bible says good things about marriage, is that somehow "unbiblical propaganda"?

Also, how can marriage be a "blessing," but at the same time people who say good things about are peddling "propaganda"? I don't understand that.

Do you understand that Paul, Timothy, John the Baptist, John the beloeved disciple, generations of priests, nuns, missionaries, martyrs, and lord Jesus himself, never get to experience this blessing? The bible says good things about marraige, the propaganda says you must have these good things or you go to hell, do you understand the difference?

Also, are you saying you can't tell whether any married couples are truly happy? I mean, I assume you grew up with parents, yes? I don't know what your parents were like, of course. But you never saw them express any happiness or affection to each other?

No, sincerely and honestly. Even if they did, I don't see it and I can't remember any. They're nice folks though, I pray for them and wish them the best. The happiness any married couple enjoys is their own, it's not an object for envy, for envy is the second deadliest sin, isn't it?

 

[RodColeman]

Do you understand that Paul, Timothy, John the Baptist, John the beloeved disciple, generations of priests, nuns, missionaries, martyrs, and lord Jesus himself, never get to experience this blessing? The bible says good things about marraige, the propaganda says you must have these good things or you go to hell, do you understand the difference?

No, sincerely and honestly. Even if they did, I don't see it and I can't remember any. They're nice folks though, I pray for them and wish them the best. The happiness any married couple enjoys is their own, it's not an object for envy, for envy is the second deadliest sin, isn't it?

Well, we don't know that for sure. Paul might have been married at one point. But Paul was personally content with being single. of course, not everyone is, and that's fine. Paul even conceded that. And the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not Timothy was married. It also doesn't say whether or not John the Baptist was married. There are church traditions that John the disciple was unmarried, but the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not he was.

There's also generations of church leaders who were happily married.

And I can only speak for myself, but I know plenty of happily married couples, even if there's no such thing as a perfect marriage, of course.

 

[Lovette]

Well, we don't know that for sure. Paul might have been married at one point. But Paul was personally content with being single. of course, not everyone is, and that's fine. Paul even conceded that. And the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not Timothy was married. It also doesn't say whether or not John the Baptist was married. There are church traditions that John the disciple was unmarried, but the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not he was.

There's also generations of church leaders who were happily married.

And I can only speak for myself, but I know plenty of happily married couples, even if there's no such thing as a perfect marriage, of course.

We do know for sure that Paul couldn't have been married, there's zero possibility for him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned.

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. (1 Cor. 7:27)

And a husband is not to divorce his wife. (1 Cor. 7:11)

If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. (1 Cor. 7:12)

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. (Rom. 2:1-2)

As for the rest, you can accept them as devotees to God, having forsaken all to follow Christ, giving up their lives as a living sacrifice, or you can insist them as married, without any proof, obscure it in any way you want, in order to fit your narrative. I don't picture any of these saints as this "another". I can only speak for myself too, but the Scripture has spoken for them.

“A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’(Lk. 16:14-20)

 

[Snackersmom]

The only help I need is to understand what's the point of seeking a mate who may or may not exist, a highly risky investment in this era which leave you disappointed, saddened, humiliated, traumatized, scammed, scandalized, even mired with legal trouble.

Dear goodness, if you don't feel you can spend time with a lady without being traumatized, humiliated, scammed, scandalized and mired in legal trouble then I'd say you've made the wise choice to stay away. Well done, Sir!

Help me understand this gambler's mindset........you keep telling me that taking such caution is disregard of God's design?

When the heck did I ever tell you to go seek a wife? I mean, if you want to fine, that's between you and God but based on your interactions here I can't imagine it would go well. I don't like to encourage people to failure. If you could please show me the post where I said that I would appreciate it.

Or maybe by "you" it's meant as a collective "you", as in "some guy on this site told me to go find a wife so everyone else on here must feel the same way"? Maybe that?

Or have we reached that magical golden hour where you just start making things up about people you disagree with, maybe that's it?

 

[Snackersmom]

We do know for sure that Paul couldn't have been married, there's zero possibility for him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned.

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. (1 Cor. 7:27)

And a husband is not to divorce his wife. (1 Cor. 7:11)

If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. (1 Cor. 7:12)

You missed a couple of options. Paul could have been married at some point but his wife died before he wrote 1 Corinthians. Orrrrrr.........

He could have been already married when he got saved and his wife did not believe and was unwilling to continue living with him.

 

[Magenta]

Paul might have been married at one point.

We do know for sure that Paul couldn't have been married, there's zero possibility for
him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned.

Uh, no. Paul having been married while a Pharisee would not make him a hypocrite.

As a Christian he could have been a widower, though. So I agree he could have been married at some point.

 

[Lovette]

Dear goodness, if you don't feel you can spend time with a lady without being traumatized, humiliated, scammed, scandalized and mired in legal trouble then I'd say you've made the wise choice to stay away. Well done, Sir!

I assure you, never felt that way, none of my female colleagues or relatives.

When the heck did I ever tell you to go seek a wife? I mean, if you want to fine, that's between you and God but based on your interactions here I can't imagine it would go well. I don't like to encourage people to failure. If you could please show me the post where I said that I would appreciate it.

Or maybe by "you" it's meant as a collective "you", as in "some guy on this site told me to go find a wife so everyone else on here must feel the same way"? Maybe that?

Or have we reached that magical golden hour where you just start making things up about people you disagree with, maybe that's it?

See, "go find a wife", as though there is one readily available for you at the right moment and place with a right price, as though you're entitled to one, God owes you one - or a husband, for that matter. Now who's really making things up, me or anybody who makes up this "wife' figure, as though this is THE telos, THE absolute meaning and fulfillment of life? You know, man shall not live by bread alone, don't you think man shall not live by libido alone too?

 

[Lovette]

You missed a couple of options. Paul could have been married at some point but his wife died before he wrote 1 Corinthians. Orrrrrr.........

He could have been already married when he got saved and his wife did not believe and was unwilling to continue living with him.

No, he forbode that. "A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband." And if anybody departed, it was Paul who departed for his missionary journeys, from such a "wife" who only exists in your assumption.