Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[rogerg]

Yes, the Lord knew he would build his church and those that would become members of his body would be given those blessings. Not one person was elected to be in his body from the foundation of the world. The context is blessings found in Christ not people.

Wrong. Not "knew", caused it to occur, according to His divine will.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[1Co 1:30 KJV] 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 

[rogerg]

Jonah 3
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Wrong. Jonah preached the gospel to the Ninevites, and they repented through God.

[Mat 12:41 KJV] 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
[Luk 11:32 KJV] 32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

[Jon 3:1-5 KJV]
1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

 

[brightfame52]

Not one person was elected to be in his body from the foundation of the world.

False Eph 1:4 are His Church Eph 5:25

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 5 25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

God hand picked His Wife/Bride

 

[brightfame52]

They were in Christ but enemies. Got it.

Yes. 1 Cor 2:14

 

[John146]

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Notice again it does not say, "he hath chosen us to be in him before the foundation of the world,".

That's how Calvinists read it, but it's not there. The word "according" takes the context back to verse 3. The "us in him" is a place, the body of Christ, not individuals.

 

[John146]

Wrong. Jonah preached the gospel to the Ninevites, and they repented through God.

[Mat 12:41 KJV] 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
[Luk 11:32 KJV] 32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

[Jon 3:1-5 KJV]
1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

Jonah preached the gospel? Nope. Jonah preached an eight-word declaration of destruction, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." That was the word of God that Jonah was given to preach. And the people of Nineveh believed God. They believed that Jonah's God was going to overthrow them in forty days, thus they repented and cried out to God.

9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

 

[John146]

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Christ loved the church, his body...whoever that would be that would make up his body. No individuals but a body in Christ.

 

[rogerg]

Notice again it does not say, "he hath chosen us to be in him before the foundation of the world,".

That's how Calvinists read it, but it's not there. The word "according" takes the context back to verse 3. The "us in him" is a place, the body of Christ, not individuals.

The "to be" are explicitly present in the actual Greek text, I believe

 

[rogerg]

Jonah preached the gospel? Nope. Jonah preached an eight-word declaration of destruction, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." That was the word of God that Jonah was given to preach. And the people of Nineveh believed God. They believed that Jonah's God was going to overthrow them in forty days, thus they repented and cried out to God.

9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Yes, simple and concise, just as God's preaching to Abraham was - the gospel message was nevertheless contained within it.

[Gen 22:18 KJV] 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Because Jesus Himself made reference to Jonah's preaching, Jesus linked it to His preaching, so, that which Jonah preached, was the same message as Jesus's although Jonah preached it at a different level than Jesus did. Read the below verses carefully.

[Mat 12:41 KJV] 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
[Luk 11:32 KJV] 32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

 

[John146]

The "to be" are explicitly present in the actual Greek text, I believe

You have the actual Greek text? Wow!

 

[John146]

Yes, simple and concise, just as God's preaching to Abraham was - the gospel message was nevertheless contained within it.

[Gen 22:18 KJV] 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Because Jesus Himself made reference to Jonah's preaching, Jesus linked it to His preaching, so, that which Jonah preached, was the same message as Jesus's although Jonah preached it at a different level than Jesus did. Read the below verses carefully.

[Mat 12:41 KJV] 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
[Luk 11:32 KJV] 32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

The gospel message was contained within Jonah's message? You should not add to or take away from scripture. "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." This was a clear eight-word message of destruction. This was certainly not a gospel message.

 

[rogerg]

You have the actual Greek text? Wow!

I'm not a Greek expert but I believe this is it "...καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους..."

 

[John146]

I'm not a Greek expert but I believe this is it "...καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους..."

I'll stick with the preserved words of God in English.

 

[brightfame52]

whoever that would be that would make up his body.

They were already picked by the Faither and so Chosen by Him Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats how God does it. Who chose Adams wife for Him ? The same principle Eph 5:29-32

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[rogerg]

I'll stick with the preserved words of God in English.

Stick with what you like. I didn't make those words up. It doesn't seem to me like your interpretation of the verse changes anything,

 

[rogerg]

The gospel message was contained within Jonah's message? You should not add to or take away from scripture. "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." This was a clear eight-word message of destruction. This was certainly not a gospel message.

I know you will probably find this hard to believe, but it may just be that Jesus understood Jonah's preaching, and His own preaching, better than you do. After all, He is the one who linked Jonah's message to His own, given as He didn't have to do so. By Jesus saying, "a greater than Jonas is here", and "three days and nights in the whale's belly", and "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment" (which Jesus wouldn't have said had Jonah's message been different than His because the men of Nineveh would have no basis for their judgment), He inexorably ties Jonah's message to His own.

[Mat 12:39-42 KJV]
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.

 

[John146]

By Jesus saying, "a greater than Jonas is here", and "three days and nights in the whale's belly", and "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment" (which Jesus wouldn't have said had Jonah's message been different than His because the men of Nineveh would have no basis for their judgment), He inexorably ties Jonah's message to His own.

Jesus was linking his death, burial, and resurrection to what Jonah did. Jonah died and was resurrected. Jonah would later die again. Jesus didn't have to say anything about Jonah's message because the book of Jonah contains it. You see, the people of Nineveh repented at the preaching of their own destruction hoping that God would show them mercy. God in the flesh comes down with a message. It was not about destruction, but about salvation, and the Jews rejected their own Messiah.

 

[rogerg]

Jesus was linking his death, burial, and resurrection to what Jonah did. Jonah died and was resurrected. Jonah would later die again. Jesus didn't have to say anything about Jonah's message because the book of Jonah contains it. You see, the people of Nineveh repented at the preaching of their own destruction hoping that God would show them mercy. God in the flesh comes down with a message. It was not about destruction, but about salvation, and the Jews rejected their own Messiah.

Again, Jesus said that the men of Ninevah would rise in judgment against "this generation" because they of Ninevah repented based upon Jonah's message. So, if Jonah's message had been fundamentally different than Jesus's, Jesus would have been incorrect making the claim of vs 41, because they (Jesus and Jonah), would have been preaching two entirely different messages. The only way to be correct and logically valid is for the same fundamental message to have been preached by both. The "this generation" refers symbolically to the scribes and of the Pharisees of vs 39 (and those like them) to whom Jesus was speaking at the time, as being those of "this generation" of vs41, which are those to whom the men of Ninevah will rise in judgment against - they will rise in judgment against them because they didn't believe Jesus's preaching.

By the way, there is also eternal spiritual destruction, so to be saved and given spiritual life, is to be saved from eternal destruction, not physical distruction.

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The whole point of the parable is to show Jesus mission to save sinners, not to give credit to the ones being saved.

Actually, the whole point of all the parables in Luke 15 was/is to teach those who separate themselves out as being "special" is error.

Luke 15:1-3

1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying ...

Then the Lord Jesus Christ taught the three parables and pointed out the error of the pharisees and scribes who murmured because He ate with publicans and sinners ...

The pharisees and scribes would not diligently seek lost sinners ... the pharisees and scribes would not have anything to do with common folk. The pharisees and scribes were like the son who was angry that his father made a feast for his brother who he thought was unworthy.

.

 

[brightfame52]

Actually, the whole point of all the parables in Luke 15 was/is to teach those who separate themselves out as being "special" is error.

You started off with a diversion