How long have you been single?

[JohnDB]

However....

We are currently dying as a species.
We are not replacing even ourselves.

The ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD IS AT A PRECIPICE OF CATOSTROPHE.

Asian world is already toast. Between China's "one child policy" and the rest of Asian cultural norms....there's not going to be any Asians soon enough. In 2050 if the USA can somehow keep the status quo....their population will be larger than CCP.
But currently the USA is still dying off.


Total Fertility rates are dependant upon relationships between men and women. Children are a gift from God.
Children are like arrows, blessed is he whose quiver is full.

There's a LOT of factors as to why nobody is having babies anymore.

Birth control methods are a lot more perfected than ever before making sexual intercourse more for recreation than procreation.

Economic reasons: Women tend to not engage in relationships much less get pregnant while stressed long term(career stresses)....men abjectly refuse to get women pregnant when concerned about long term finances. Consumer confidence has been in a long term down trend for over a decade.

Religious/Community destruction.
People are less religious AND Community membership/ownership is just about non-existent anymore. Most people on this forum have a 30% chance of knowing their neighbors and a 5% chance of knowing those 2 doors down. Then there is the falling church attendance or any social club membership. Jaycees, sunshine, moose, Elks, KOC, Shriners, and the list is endless....these groups/clubs don't exist anymore. Nobody wants to join either.
No Community or ddesire for community then it's so much easier to be a leech on society instead of a building block or a pillar.
Leeches don't romantically date. They don't have children except by accident. (See birth control) They just suck the lifeblood out of a community. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the 2nd imperative/commandment given by Jesus that will never go away, reduce, not be an instrumental marker of our faith.

You can always tell a leech....they talk about their feelings, their holiness, their tradition.....

 

[Lovette]

Personally, I'm finding this fascinating just because I've never really encountered this sort of pushback before. So it's very tempting to keep engaging.

Unfortunately, Paul had words about these sorts of things:

-Titus 3:9: "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless."

-2 Timothy 2:23: "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife."

- 1 Timothy 2:23: "He is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions..."

Dang it, Paul! Always ruining my fun! Hahaha!

Yeah, "evil suspicions" of him being married, based on nothing but some obscure tradition, which may not even be applicable to Paul.

As for "disputes and arguments over words", at least they hold the benefit of honing your skill of articulating your thoughts into words, and costing you nothing; you go for a date, that'd be caving in to temptation, blowing off your hard earned, god given resources on harlots, like the prodigal son, and deceiving yourself by calling that "mutual attraction".

 

[JohnDB]

And yes....
Inside of 20 years.....long long before most people will even retire we will face dire consequences as a result of not having children. The high schools will begin to quietly close in 5 years....finding groceries at all will get harder in 7-10...because no one will stock the shelves....
Nursing centers close shortly after that.....

Then police and fire....

Military is next....

Somewhere in there the vultures will smell something rotting and dying and attack.

 

[Lovette]

Paul never promoted marriage?

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. He says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.

Paul's teaching on celibacy is rather nuanced. I think it's helpful to keep that in mind. And again, Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. it also seems like Paul believed the church in his day was living in the End Times, which would explain his caution.

If that's nuanced, take Lord Jesus's teaching in Matt. 19:11-12. Accept celibacy as a gift. Can't accept it as a gift, accept it as fate. Can't accept it as fate, accept it as penance. Can't accept it as penance, be stuck in your grief of being single and never reaching the accpetance stage.

And we don't know whether Paul was ever married or not. The Bible doesn't say.

Yes we do know, as long as he forbade divorce, the legal path from 'married" to "unmarried."

 

[RodColeman]

If that's nuanced, take Lord Jesus's teaching in Matt. 19:11-12. Accept celibacy as a gift. Can't accept it as a gift, accept it as fate. Can't accept it as fate, accept it as penance. Can't accept it as penance, be stuck in your grief of being single and never reaching the accpetance stage.

Yes we do know, as long as he forbade divorce, the legal path from 'married" to "unmarried."

So you view dating as temptation, harlotry, and a waste of money? That's pretty bleak. But if that's the case, you're, fortunately, free to stay single if you so choose.

Again, I never said Paul was married. What I said was that we don't know whether Paul was ever married or not. All we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. That's it. Sure, you can speculate the he was always unmarried, but that's all it is. Speculation. I see no hard evidence either way.

Also, Jesus said that the person who is able to accept celibacy should accept it. He also said that not everyone is able.

 

[Lovette]

However....

We are currently dying as a species.
We are not replacing even ourselves.

The ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD IS AT A PRECIPICE OF CATOSTROPHE.

Asian world is already toast. Between China's "one child policy" and the rest of Asian cultural norms....there's not going to be any Asians soon enough. In 2050 if the USA can somehow keep the status quo....their population will be larger than CCP.
But currently the USA is still dying off.


Total Fertility rates are dependant upon relationships between men and women. Children are a gift from God.
Children are like arrows, blessed is he whose quiver is full.

There's a LOT of factors as to why nobody is having babies anymore.

Birth control methods are a lot more perfected than ever before making sexual intercourse more for recreation than procreation.

Economic reasons: Women tend to not engage in relationships much less get pregnant while stressed long term(career stresses)....men abjectly refuse to get women pregnant when concerned about long term finances. Consumer confidence has been in a long term down trend for over a decade.

Religious/Community destruction.
People are less religious AND Community membership/ownership is just about non-existent anymore. Most people on this forum have a 30% chance of knowing their neighbors and a 5% chance of knowing those 2 doors down. Then there is the falling church attendance or any social club membership. Jaycees, sunshine, moose, Elks, KOC, Shriners, and the list is endless....these groups/clubs don't exist anymore. Nobody wants to join either.
No Community or ddesire for community then it's so much easier to be a leech on society instead of a building block or a pillar.
Leeches don't romantically date. They don't have children except by accident. (See birth control) They just suck the lifeblood out of a community. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the 2nd imperative/commandment given by Jesus that will never go away, reduce, not be an instrumental marker of our faith.

You can always tell a leech....they talk about their feelings, their holiness, their tradition.....

Oh ye of little faith! Were Adam and Eve ancestors of Christians alone? Or all mankind? Last time I checked, followers of Christ are given the Great Commission to make disciples, not babies; the redemption of soul is found in the blood of Christ, not of hymen.

 

[Snackersmom]

Maybe it's hard for you to see and realize, but there's a blurred line between "blessing" and "idol". It is dangerous to follow such a false gospel of "relational" or "sexual" prosperity, this utterly false narrative which naively assumes that God will reward your faith with happy marriage, singleness is just a preparing stage for happy marriage. If you don't get it, it must be your fault, you don't have enough faith, you must be promiscuous, you must have ruined your chances. That's what I'm really being bitter at. In my understanding of God, he's more of a shoulder for me to cry on, instead of a santa claus to dole out stuffs. Singleness actually reminds us of his presence and makes us rely on him more, don't you think?

Hi Lovette, no that is not hard for me to see or realize at all (awww, you're doing that cute thing where you assume what other people know and believe! ).

I realize many (if not most) American churches hold up marriage as an idol. I did so myself, back in my 20s. God sorted me out though, and I'm thankful for it.

Really, if you could quit verbally windmill-swinging and actually listen to what people are saying, you would find that many on here have some of the same opinions and frustrations that you are experiencing.

Do you think you could maybe try posting with the intent to listen, rather than just to argue? If you are able to do that I think you will find more common ground here than you expect.

Anyways, best!

 

[Lovette]

Again, I never said Paul was married. What I said was that we don't know whether Paul was ever married or not. All we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. That's it. Sure, you can speculate the he was always unmarried, but that's all it is. Speculation. I see no hard evidence either way.

Again, had he been married and then unmarried, it necessarily means he either abandoned or divorced his spouse, both he forbade. That's not speculation.

Also, Jesus said that the person who is able to accept celibacy should accept it. He also said that not everyone is able.

Neither is everyone able to handle marriage. God won't give you more than what you can handle.

 

[RodColeman]

Again, had he been married and then unmarried, it necessarily means he either abandoned or divorced his spouse, both he forbade. That's not speculation.

Neither is everyone able to handle marriage. God won't give you more than what you can handle.

Ok, fair enough. That does seem likely.

Also, the whole line about how "God won't give you more than what you can handle" is not in the Bible anywhere. And the Bible says we can choose to pursue marriage. I don't think God's a Puppetmaster who runs every aspect of of your love life.

 

[Snackersmom]

I'm finding this fascinating, to be honest. At least so far. There's nobody quite like Lovette, is there?

There's quite a few similar ones in the Bible discussion forum, but most of them don't venture into "singles".

This is generally a very chill and reasonable forum for the most part.

 

[Lovette]

Hi Lovette, no that is not hard for me to see or realize at all (awww, you're doing that cute thing where you assume what other people know and believe! ).

I realize many (if not most) American churches hold up marriage as an idol. I did so myself, back in my 20s. God sorted me out though, and I'm thankful for it.

Really, if you could quit verbally windmill-swinging and actually listen to what people are saying, you would find that many on here have some of the same opinions and frustrations that you are experiencing.

Do you think you could maybe try posting with the intent to listen, rather than just to argue? If you are able to do that I think you will find more common ground here than you expect.

Anyways, best!

As a matter of fact, marriage is NOT the default state, singleness is, for none is born married, all are born single; risking everything you have, your property, body, soul, even your life for a marriage is a choice, not doing so is the default state. Marriage is set up as an idol when this is reversed.

 

[RodColeman]

As a matter of fact, marriage is NOT the default state, singleness is, for none is born married, all are born single; risking everything you have, your property, body, soul, even your life for a marriage is a choice, not doing so is the default state. Marriage is set up as an idol when this is reversed.

So anyone who decides to pursue marriage is guilty of idolatry?

 

[Lovette]

Ok, fair enough. That does seem likely.

Also, the whole line about how "God won't give you more than what you can handle" is not in the Bible anywhere. And the Bible says we can choose to pursue marriage. I don't think God's a Puppetmaster who runs every aspect of of your love life.

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Cor. 10:12-13)

 

[welsh79]

Just reading through this thread.

Blimey.

Think some should take a step away from their phones or computer toys and take a chill pill.

 

[Lovette]

So anyone who decides to pursue marriage is guilty of idolatry?

Again, marriage with WHO? Pursuing marriage without an answer on this is guilty of idolatry.

 

[Lynx]

Personally, I'm finding this fascinating just because I've never really encountered this sort of pushback before. So it's very tempting to keep engaging.

Unfortunately, Paul had words about these sorts of things:

-Titus 3:9: "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless."

-2 Timothy 2:23: "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife."

- 1 Timothy 2:23: "He is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions..."

Dang it, Paul! Always ruining my fun! Hahaha!

I have also found much wisdom in Proverbs 26:20, with similar ruining of fun.

 

[Lovette]

There's quite a few similar ones in the Bible discussion forum, but most of them don't venture into "singles".

This is generally a very chill and reasonable forum for the most part.

And I admit, I'm not so ticked off and riled up on any other subjects, only on the justification of singleness.

 

[tourist]

Paul's advice is to maintain the status quo, if you're married, stay married; unmarried, stay unmarried. But either married or unmarried, be eschatalogically minded, do not be troubled with worldly pursuits, do not be distracted by worldly pleasures.

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband ... but I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. (1 Cor. 7:1-7)

Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none ... For the form of this world is passing away. (1 Cor. 7:25-31)

I'm not at all sure how that this is related to my post that you responded to. I you are happily content to remain single that is up to you. Personally, I had love in my heart that I desired to share with the woman of my dreams. I went for it and have absolutely no regrets.

 

[tourist]

And we don't know whether Paul was ever married or not. All we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. That's it.

Does the bible state explicitly that Paul was not married at one time?

 

[Lynx]

You can always tell a leech....they talk about their feelings, their holiness, their tradition.....

Gee that sounds familiar. Now who do we know who is always doing that...