It says Jesus knew who did not believe, whether it was Him knowing from the beginning or
Judas not believing from the beginning is immaterial, the bottom line is, Judas did not believe.
And Jesus knew it.
Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?
- Thread starter Godsgood
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Judas not believing from the beginning is immaterial, the bottom line is, Judas did not believe.
And Jesus knew it.
I'm just asking book, chapter, verse....
Simple....not challenging what you have said.
(This is me, one of YOUR fans)
And that Judas did not believe in the crucial truths....that is NOT in dispute. Satan believes Jesus is the Son of God and shakes in fear at his name....(James)
What exactly was Judas's mental malfunction?.....that is what we are here to discuss....and its important.
I have read almost every post he has made in the last year or so.
The Scriptures Most Definitely do address the exact answer....
It's not speculation.
The problem is we do not like the answer because we are human and error prone....and occasionally guilty.
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has
been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. John 17 v 12
^ Jesus' words. ^ I call that addressing the issue.
Sooooo.....
To put things more succinctly....
Since both Judas and Satan believe that Jesus is God's Son...
According to The book of James....
AND
Judas helped himself to the moneybag regularly....
Would it be a fair assessment that Judas did NOT believe in self sacrifice?
Or
Sacrificial love?
Putting others needs before yours?
No different from what Jesus literally lived.....
Not suggesting that we should muzzle the ox while he is treading the grain...
But enriching yourself while preaching the gospel is the exact opposite of what Jesus taught....and made Judas the Son of Perdition.
Would THAT actually resonate?
Hebrews 9 teaches us there is no forgiveness without the blood of Jesus. Full Stop!!
It also says there’s no purification without the blood of Jesus
It also says that there’s no new covenant without the blood of Jesus
No new covenant means no new spirit.
So one cannot be regenerate WITHOUT being forgiven, WITHOUT being purified, and WITHOUT being given a new spirit.
If you think that it’s possible to be regenerate without those conditions met, then you don’t understand the term born again.
I would agree the word "lost" "apollumi" can be translated many ways and sometimes it is translated as "perish" .. the "destruction" spoken of is real time/physical life and self-inflicted and not with regards to anything beyond that.
But mostly agree it is speculative.
So do you believe that none of the references to being saved/salvation in the Old Testament were real, or that nobody could have their sins forgiven before Jesus had actually shed His blood? How does that fit with Jesus saying things such as:
(Luk 5:20) When He saw their faith, He said to him, "Man, your sins are forgiven you."
Even in the Old Testament, we have forgiveness:
(Psa 85:2) You have forgiven the iniquity of Your people; You have covered all their sin. Selah
God is not limited by time, as we are.
Hebrews 9:12-14
…12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.
13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean,
14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!…
Berean Standard Bible
Salvation was consistent throughout time.
I do not believe in dispensational distinctly different gospels. For instance, the laws of Moses did not bring everlasting life.
This was another example of the gospel that mankind was provided from Genesis.
Abraham offering his only son did not save him. He already was saved. This was a picture of the LORD he knew God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering.
22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8. And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. 11. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Many people would be blessed by the seed of Abraham.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
In the Old Testament the sins were only covered and not completely washed away.
Only by the blood of Jesus can sin be forgiven for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.
But we know Old Testament saints are saved even Enoch and Noah and Job before the covenant with Israel.
The blood of bulls and goats cannot completely take away sins which there was a remembrance once a year to sacrifice for the nation of Israel.
As long as their sins were covered by the blood of animals then when Jesus shed His blood then their sins were completely washed away.
For people who have not heard the truth they will be judged by their conscious and their belief in a higher power which creation testifies there is a God who loves people for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, and testifies of the 2 greatest laws love God, and people.
Which love works no ill towards their neighbor therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Which if they loved people and repented of sins and asked for forgiveness if anything is amiss then the blood of Jesus will completely wash away their sin at the great throne judgement.
What exactly was Judas's sin?? Why did it lead to his downfall (assuming he was not saved)?
No faith or belief in Sacrificial love....which is what Jesus modeled for mankind.
Judas was more a "profit from the Gospel" type guy.
Scripture tells us plainly. If you don’t know, then you need to read Scripture. If you do know, then why are you asking?
I agree, scripture is clear that all sin is one and the same thing. Everyone in this forum is guilty of the exact same sin that Judas committed.
One of the essential components of the Gospel is the confession and belief that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God.
You cannot find in Scripture Judas ever calling Jesus Lord.
He called Him Rabbi, and teacher, but NEVER Lord.
Unlike Peter, who denied Jesus. But but believed who He was.
Judas NEVER believed Jesus was Lord. That’s why he didn’t and couldn’t go to Him and ask forgiveness.
You cannot find in Scripture Judas ever calling Jesus Lord.
He called Him Rabbi, and teacher, but NEVER Lord.
Unlike Peter, who denied Jesus. But but believed who He was.
Judas NEVER believed Jesus was Lord. That’s why he didn’t and couldn’t go to Him and ask forgiveness.