Calvinism is Gospel !

[HeIsHere]

This was me. I did this even on this forum until God changed my mind on it. Instead of answering the calvinist proof texts I would just quote 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16 adnauseum thinking that gets rid of Romans 9, Ephesians 1, John 6, Acts 13:48, the entirety of the old testament where God chose only Israel, the sacrifices were only for Israel, not for the egyptians or babylonians.

Salvation is 100% God

Well, the whole point is growing in the faith, you live and you learn.

Without a decree you cannot have prophecy, because Judas could of just decided not to betray Jesus, Cyrus' parents could of chosen to name him something else.

I still wouldnt call myself a calvinist though, too much baggage- I just call myself a Christian, SAVED BY GRACE.

Ancient Israel, as a group, was chosen for service, accepting the gift of salvation is always an indvidual responsibility.

 

[p_rehbein]

"We tend to be Arminian when first saved, and then after maturing and growing grace, we see the truth of Calvinism, all of God, behind it all."

Hmm.....

So, if a mature Christian with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (who teaches us the spiritual meaning of Scripture) does not believe Calvins teachings are NOT saved?

 

[Jon777]

Hmm.....

So, if a mature Christian with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (who teaches us the spiritual meaning of Scripture) does not believe Calvins teachings are NOT saved?

Did I write anything close to that? NO! The 5-point Calvinist Spurgeon wrote about John Wesley:

"I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines which he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley."

 

[p_rehbein]

I will say you are fair in your Profile to tell what church you are a member of, just as I have my such information in my Signature. Since you are okay with links, I'll post the Wikipedia article the church of which you are a member:

Church of God (Restoration) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm....

You made a mistake I fear. My theological beliefs are based on the Church of God REFORMATION Movement. Not Restoration.

We believe in the Holy Bible, and profess the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Restoration Church borrowed much of their teachings from the Reformatoin Movement Church.

The "link" you provided MAY be true for the Restoration people, BUT are not true for the Reformation Movement Church. It appears the link only relies on the arcaic beliefs of the Church.

There are only a few statements in the "link" that the Reformation Movement Church practice, believe in. Too few for me to even consider identifying with them. In fact, the Reformation Movement Church beliefs are far more in line with the Southern Baptist than what is provided in the "link."

(just saying)

 

[p_rehbein]

Reformation Movement Theology:
The Church of God Reformation Movement emphasizes:

• Salvation in Christ alone
• Unity of all believers, transcending denominational boundaries
• Holiness and sanctification, including abstaining from tobacco, alcohol, and worldly pleasures such as dancing and theater Encyclopedia Britannica+1
• Jesus as the central focus, with allegiance to Him above any human organization jesusisthesubject.org+1
• The belief that all redeemed individuals are already part of the true church of God, making formal membership in other organizations unnecessary

• (including abstaining from tobacco, alcohol, and worldly pleasures such as dancing and theater)

This is not true. Yes, at the very first founding it was the view of the CoG RM, but as time passed, and the Church leaders became more sanctified through the spiritual belilefs of Scripture, they progressed to the Biblical truth of such as these listed above. Hard to hold to a belief that dancing is a sin when Scripture is clear that David danced for God. As well, we have always had musical instruments in our Worship Serviced. We do not believe OR teach that partaking of alcohol OR tobacco is a sin in and of itself. Scripture teaches "do not a drunkard be." That is far different than having an alcoholic drink.

Wed believe that Holiness and Sanctification are based on spiritual truths and Scripture is refering to the heart of man which is where the Holy Spirit dwells within us. After all, Jesus taught it is NOT what goes into a mans mouth that defiles him, but what proceeds OUT of a mans mouth... because such come from the mans heart.

Regarding Theater. False as well. Every year CoGRM congregations put on Plays to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and Plays that celebrate His resurrection.

SUMMARY:

The Church of God Reformation Movement represents a faithful restorationist approach, prioritizing Christ-centered living, holiness, and unity among believers while maintaining a flexible organizational structure (each congregation is autonomas I have added to clarify our beliefs) to support global ministry. Its historical roots, theological emphasis, and worldwide reach distinguish it as a unique Christian fellowship committed to living out the principles of the New Testament

That is a very basic description, but it is a beginning, I suppose.

The CoGRM welcomes ALL who profess to be believers in and followers of Jesus the Christ into their fellowship. We DO NOT "excommunicate" people. That is so very funny to state that we do. Our extending a hand of brotherly love and fellowship differs greatly with quite a few Denominational Churches and/or Nondenominaitonal Churches.

 

[p_rehbein]

Did I write anything close to that? NO! The 5-point Calvinist Spurgeon wrote about John Wesley:

"I can only say concerning him that, while I detest many of the doctrines which he preached, yet for the man himself I have a reverence second to no Wesleyan; and if there were wanted two apostles to be added to the number of the twelve, I do not believe that there could be found two men more fit to be so added than George Whitefield and John Wesley."

Not exactly a definitive statement of your convictions. If I believe that the teachings of John Calvin are flawed theology and NOT Biblically supported, am I saved? Will I receive eternal life?

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding one identifying themselves as a CHRISTIAN
The biblical definition of a Christian refers to a person who follows Jesus Christ and adheres to the teachings of Christianity. The term "Christian" first appears in the New Testament in Acts 11:26, where the disciples were called Christians in Antioch Bible Hub. A Christian is defined as someone who professes belief in Jesus as the Christ and lives according to His teachings GotQuestions.org. Additionally, being a Christian encompasses faith in Christ, repentance, obedience, love, and perseverance in the faith

What do those who follow the teachings of John Calvin identify themselves as? Just asking because I do not know.

 

[NightTwister]

Finally, a new topic in BDF!

 

[p_rehbein]

Finally, a new topic in BDF!

1 John, Chapter 4:
19We love him, because he first loved us.
(and, of course)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Roger316]

Total depravity is one of the five points of Calvinism. This doctrine teaches that man, every man, is by nature sinful and evil—only and completely sinful and evil.

This idea, of course, is absurd. If Man were evil only, all would be darkness and there would be no goodness. But we witness goodness and love every day.

Paul never says:

• Unbelievers cannot do good.
• Unbelievers cannot love.
• Unbelievers cannot act sacrificially.

In fact, Paul explicitly affirms the opposite:

• Gentiles "do by nature the things of the law."
• Their conscience "bears witness."
• Their thoughts "accuse or defend them."

Paul sees real moral agency in all people because all people bear the image of God.

The Bible reveals a deeper, more existential question:
Who am I?
What does my action reveal about my identity?


A mother feeding her baby reveals love
A man rising his life reveals courage
A stranger helping another reveals compassion

These are not "fake goods."
They are real goods that flow from the image of God.

There is in man, apart from God's grace in Christ, no good and no ability for good. By "good" is meant that which pleases God, namely, a deed that has its origin in the faith of Jesus, its standard in the Law of God and its goal in God's glory. From conception and birth, every man is guilty before God and worthy of everlasting damnation.

This idea is another lie and an absurdity. The Bible teaches that man is responsible for his own sinful deeds. Children are incapable of sinful deeds.

This is man's plight because of the fall of the entire human race

Another myth. First, the human race didn't fall.

Paul does not teach that the human race “fell” because Adam fell. Adam is the first human to enact the story that all humans enact — mistrust, self‑rule, and death. He is a type, not a cause. We sin, not because Adam sinned, but because that is who we are: we repeat the same pattern of mistrust and self‑assertion that Adam embodied. Christ enters the same human story but lives it in perfect trust, obedience, and self‑giving love. To move from Adam to Christ is to move from the old human story to the new one — an existential transformation, not a biological inheritance.

Adam was not the cause of evil found in men. He was the example that proved the case.

One aspect of this misery of man is the bondage, or slavery, of man's will.

Calvin may teach the bondage of the will, but the Bible doesn't. If the will of man were in bondage, he would not be guilty of his evil.

In Calvin's system, the will cannot choose God because the will is dead. In Paul's system, the mind is misaligned, conflicted, and divided. Paul's bondage in Romans 7 is internal, experiential, cognitive, and affective. Paul says:

"I want to do good."
I delight in the law of God.
I do the very thing I hate.

A person with no will cannot want delight, hate, struggle, or choose poorly. Paul's bondate is a divided self, not a dead self.

 

[brightfame52]

This idea, of course, is absurd.

Thats your first rebellion, denying total depravity which the scripture teaches

 

[p_rehbein]

So, I'll ask you the same question I asked someone else earlier.

IF I believe that Calvin's theology is flawed theology at best, and false teaching at worst, am I saved? If I believe in "free will" and the theology revealed in the Gospel of John as well as numerous instances of the teachings of Paul, am I saved?

 

[Roger316]

Thats your first rebellion, denying total depravity which the scripture teaches

The scriptures would not teach against something so obviously true. Everyone can see with their own eyes that Total depravity is not true. When our interpretations of the Bible violate the obvious, this is a clue that our interpretation is incorrect, especially interpretations that we inherited from others.

 

[brightfame52]

IF I believe that Calvin's theology is flawed theology at best, and false teaching at worst, am I saved?

We dont judge peoples salvation around here. However Calvinism is the Gospel

 

[p_rehbein]

We dont judge peoples salvation around here. However Calvinism is the Gospel

Only gospel of Calvinism is Calvins interpretation. Scripture does not support it. I have provided ample Scriptural evidence to show this is true.
Deuteronomy Chapter 30:
19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Revelation, Chapter 22:

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1 Timothy 2:3-4: “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

Peter 3:9: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise… He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance”

Ezekiel 18:32: “For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!”

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”

Jeremiah 18:10: “Do you think that I like to see wicked people die?… I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live”

Calvin's teachings are simply a bat interpretation of Scripture.

Regarding the question I asked you:

Ok, based on Calvin's teachings would I receive eternal life. You do not have to judge my salvation. Question is, based on his teachings, Calvin surely does.

 

[brightfame52]

The scriptures would not teach against something so obviously true.

Yes it does teach total depravity, the we are naturally dead in sin

Everyone can see with their own eyes that Total depravity is not true.

Not spiritually, the eyes of our understanding are darkened to spiritual things of God Eph 1:18

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Isa 42:7

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Barnes:

To open the blind eyes - This is equivalent to saying that he would impart instruction to those who were ignorant. It relates to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles. He would acquaint them with God, and with the way of salvation. The condition of the world is often represented as one of darkness and blindness. Men see not their true character; they see not their real condition; they are ignorant of God, and of the truths pertaining to their future existence; and they need, therefore, some one who shall enlighten, and sanctify, and save them.

Matt Poole

Matthew Poole's Commentary
The blind eyes; the eyes of their minds blinded with long ignorance, and deep prejudice, and inveterate error, and by the power and policy of the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:4, which nothing but the almighty power of God could cure.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
To open the blind eyes,.... Of the idolatrous Gentiles, who were spiritually blind, and knew not the wretchedness of their case; the exceeding sinfulness of sin; their need of a Saviour, and who he was; as they did, when their eyes were opened by means of the Gospel sent among them, through the energy of the divine Spirit; for this is a work of almighty power and efficacious grace:

 

[brightfame52]

Only gospel of Calvinism is Calvins interpretation. Scripture does not support it. I have provided ample Scriptural evidence to show this is true.

Yeah it is True, Calvinism is the Gospel, and Im showing scripture support. Im not going to play bible hopscotch with you though.

 

[Blade]

How many *ism's are there? Pfft. Is not this a red flag 'I have my own opinion( private opinion) that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else." I like the fact he said private opinion. Then.. nothing else? Red flag.

Its the classic.. who does this point to? What is the gospel? Calvinism is a specific theological framework.. what it came around in the 1600's. Its just another group telling you.. their way of thinking studying is ..the real way. Sure I search and it said this "Calvinists do not believe they are following the words of a man instead of Christ. Rather, they argue that their system is simply a strict, organized summary of what the Bible already teaches. "

Man I wish pray this site had a "disagree" face. Just a simple disagree.. is that hard. Anyway.. I disagree on this. Who it points to mattes to me. Seems some are not defending the word/Christ but Calvinism. Not the same yet kinda is.. I was talking to this ..oh very nice sweet couple living next door they were Mormon. So I went over and we started to chat and he goes in the back and brings out all these books.. allot. I simply asked "who wrote those?" Mormons. Its just.. way to many *ism's for me. I pray I didn't offend.

 

[God-fearing]

I think that if one takes the teachings of another other than Jesus at his word and applies them as a outline of there salvational creed lacks actual understanding of trusting in Christ Jesus.
Jesus has the final say on who may enter and who not. What pleases God is to believe his son.

 

[Magenta]

I think that if one takes the teachings of another other than Jesus at his word and applies them as a outline of there salvational creed lacks actual understanding of trusting in Christ Jesus.
Jesus has the final say on who may enter and who not. What pleases God is to believe his son.

Jesus said none are good and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit...