Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

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If Israel has been rejected and modern Israel is not God's chosen nation, then how do you explain the
following verse?

Romans 11:1
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!

Take your time to answer given you see to think that you are spiritual Israel.

Here is part of a narrative found within my commentary on the Book of Daniel. I believe it speaks to this issue, and hope it might bring some thought to this topic - thanks.


Paul asks, “Has God rejected His people?” and answers, “Certainly not.” I agree completely. God has not rejected Israel. His promises have not failed. His calling has not been erased. The Jewish people are not discarded by God.

But we must let Paul finish his own argument.

In Romans 11, Paul does not say every ethnic Israelite is automatically saved. He does not say unbelieving Israel remains in covenant blessing apart from Messiah. He does not say a future political state is automatically the chosen nation of God regardless of faith. Paul’s explanation is the remnant. He says, “At this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace” (Romans 11:5). That means God has preserved believing Israel. Paul himself was proof of that, which is why he immediately says, “For I also am an Israelite.”

So no, God has not rejected Israel. But Paul also says Israel experienced a partial hardening. Some branches were broken off because of unbelief, and Gentiles were grafted in by faith. That means covenant standing is not based on ethnicity alone, nor on political nationality, but on faith in the Messiah. This is why Paul warns Gentile believers not to boast against the natural branches. The church has not replaced Israel in a proud, arrogant way. Gentiles are grafted into Israel’s covenant promises through Christ. There is one olive tree, not two separate ways of salvation.

At the same time, Paul also says the broken natural branches can be grafted in again if they do not continue in unbelief. That is the hope of Romans 11. Israel is not finally rejected. God will yet show mercy. Blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and then God will turn again to His people.

So the issue is not whether God still loves Israel. He does. The issue is whether modern Israel, as a political nation, is automatically God’s chosen covenant people while rejecting Jesus Christ. Paul does not teach that. The apostles do not teach that. Jesus Himself said, “No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

There is no salvation outside Christ — not for Gentiles, not for Jews, not for anyone.

So Israel has not been rejected
. Israel has been partially hardened, exactly as Paul says. I believe God still has a covenant purpose for Israel. I believe Jewish people remain beloved for the sake of the fathers. I believe God’s gifts and calling are irrevocable. But I also believe that Israel’s restoration must come through Messiah, not around Him. That is not replacement theology. That is Romans 11.

And this is where Daniel, Romans, and Revelation come together.

Paul says blindness in part has happened to Israel “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). That means Israel’s present blindness is not permanent. It has a boundary. It has an “until.” When the times of the Gentiles have reached their appointed completion, God will again turn His covenant attention toward His people. And we are not far from that time.

This is also connected to the 144,000 in Revelation. The 144,000 do not represent a random literal number, nor as a replacement of Israel by Gentiles, but a prophetic symbol of restored Israel — twelve times twelve times one thousand — the fullness of God’s covenant people awakened, sealed, and prepared for final witness. In that sense, the 144,000 represent Israel brought back to the Messiah, not by political power, not by national pride, and not by human achievement, but by the mercy and intervention of God.

Paul himself becomes the pattern
. He was an Israelite. He was zealous for God, yet blind to the Messiah. He persecuted the followers of Jesus, believing he was serving God. But on the road to Damascus, Christ revealed Himself to Paul, and the blindness was removed. From that moment, Paul became one of the greatest witnesses to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Something similar will happen corporately for Israel at the end - in is connected in Daniel, Paul's writings and Revelation.

When the times of the Gentiles are complete, God will remove the blindness from His people. He will give them, in effect, a Damascus experience. They will see the One whom they pierced. They will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Their mourning will turn into witness. Their former blindness will become burning testimony. This also fits Daniel’s prophetic structure. The seventy weeks were fulfilled by Messiah. He accomplished the work of Daniel 9:24. He confirmed the covenant, brought sacrifice and offering to their true fulfillment, and opened salvation to the world. But Israel, as a people, did not complete its covenant response to Him at that time. The gospel then went out to the Gentiles, and the long period of Gentile witness and Gentile dominance began.

But that period does not last forever.

Revelation shows a final witness. It speaks of those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It speaks of a sealed people. It speaks of a final proclamation before the end. It speaks of the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus standing before the world. That is the connection to the restored 144,000 with the final 3.5 years of witness. This is not a second way of salvation. It is not Israel saved apart from Christ. It is Israel finally awakened to Christ, sealed by God, and sent out to proclaim the very Messiah they once rejected.

For those final 3.5 years, they will go into the world preaching the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Just as Paul, after his Damascus experience, became a witness to the Gentiles, restored Israel will become a final witness to the world. Their message will not be Judaism without Christ. It will be the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob revealed fully in His Messiah, Jesus. Can you possibly imagine how today's Christianity will receive this? The world will hear just how corrupt the Word of God and the Testimony of jesus has become since the time of the apostles. This will not be a quiet and save time - it will indeed be the tribulation.

So when I say modern Israel is not automatically God’s chosen covenant nation apart from Christ, I am not saying God is finished with Israel. I am saying the opposite. God is not finished with Israel. But His purpose for Israel is not fulfilled in unbelief. It is fulfilled when Israel comes to Messiah.

Romans says they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. Daniel shows God’s covenant timetable. Revelation shows a sealed people bearing final witness. Together, they point to the same truth: Israel’s restoration comes through Jesus Christ.

So Israel has not been rejected.

Israel has been partially blinded.

Israel has been preserved.

Israel will be shown mercy.

Israel will be grafted in again.

And when God removes that blindness, the very people so long separated from their Messiah will become a final witness to the world that Jesus is Lord, the Lamb of God, the Son of David, and the promised Messiah of Israel.
 
Here is part of a narrative found within my commentary on the Book of Daniel. I believe it speaks to this issue, and hope it might bring some thought to this topic - thanks.


Paul asks, “Has God rejected His people?” and answers, “Certainly not.” I agree completely. God has not rejected Israel. His promises have not failed. His calling has not been erased. The Jewish people are not discarded by God.

But we must let Paul finish his own argument.

In Romans 11, Paul does not say every ethnic Israelite is automatically saved. He does not say unbelieving Israel remains in covenant blessing apart from Messiah. He does not say a future political state is automatically the chosen nation of God regardless of faith. Paul’s explanation is the remnant. He says, “At this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace” (Romans 11:5). That means God has preserved believing Israel. Paul himself was proof of that, which is why he immediately says, “For I also am an Israelite.”

So no, God has not rejected Israel. But Paul also says Israel experienced a partial hardening. Some branches were broken off because of unbelief, and Gentiles were grafted in by faith. That means covenant standing is not based on ethnicity alone, nor on political nationality, but on faith in the Messiah. This is why Paul warns Gentile believers not to boast against the natural branches. The church has not replaced Israel in a proud, arrogant way. Gentiles are grafted into Israel’s covenant promises through Christ. There is one olive tree, not two separate ways of salvation.

At the same time, Paul also says the broken natural branches can be grafted in again if they do not continue in unbelief. That is the hope of Romans 11. Israel is not finally rejected. God will yet show mercy. Blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and then God will turn again to His people.

So the issue is not whether God still loves Israel. He does. The issue is whether modern Israel, as a political nation, is automatically God’s chosen covenant people while rejecting Jesus Christ. Paul does not teach that. The apostles do not teach that. Jesus Himself said, “No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

There is no salvation outside Christ — not for Gentiles, not for Jews, not for anyone.

So Israel has not been rejected
. Israel has been partially hardened, exactly as Paul says. I believe God still has a covenant purpose for Israel. I believe Jewish people remain beloved for the sake of the fathers. I believe God’s gifts and calling are irrevocable. But I also believe that Israel’s restoration must come through Messiah, not around Him. That is not replacement theology. That is Romans 11.

And this is where Daniel, Romans, and Revelation come together.

Paul says blindness in part has happened to Israel “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). That means Israel’s present blindness is not permanent. It has a boundary. It has an “until.” When the times of the Gentiles have reached their appointed completion, God will again turn His covenant attention toward His people. And we are not far from that time.

This is also connected to the 144,000 in Revelation. The 144,000 do not represent a random literal number, nor as a replacement of Israel by Gentiles, but a prophetic symbol of restored Israel — twelve times twelve times one thousand — the fullness of God’s covenant people awakened, sealed, and prepared for final witness. In that sense, the 144,000 represent Israel brought back to the Messiah, not by political power, not by national pride, and not by human achievement, but by the mercy and intervention of God.

Paul himself becomes the pattern
. He was an Israelite. He was zealous for God, yet blind to the Messiah. He persecuted the followers of Jesus, believing he was serving God. But on the road to Damascus, Christ revealed Himself to Paul, and the blindness was removed. From that moment, Paul became one of the greatest witnesses to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Something similar will happen corporately for Israel at the end - in is connected in Daniel, Paul's writings and Revelation.

When the times of the Gentiles are complete, God will remove the blindness from His people. He will give them, in effect, a Damascus experience. They will see the One whom they pierced. They will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Their mourning will turn into witness. Their former blindness will become burning testimony. This also fits Daniel’s prophetic structure. The seventy weeks were fulfilled by Messiah. He accomplished the work of Daniel 9:24. He confirmed the covenant, brought sacrifice and offering to their true fulfillment, and opened salvation to the world. But Israel, as a people, did not complete its covenant response to Him at that time. The gospel then went out to the Gentiles, and the long period of Gentile witness and Gentile dominance began.

But that period does not last forever.

Revelation shows a final witness. It speaks of those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It speaks of a sealed people. It speaks of a final proclamation before the end. It speaks of the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus standing before the world. That is the connection to the restored 144,000 with the final 3.5 years of witness. This is not a second way of salvation. It is not Israel saved apart from Christ. It is Israel finally awakened to Christ, sealed by God, and sent out to proclaim the very Messiah they once rejected.

For those final 3.5 years, they will go into the world preaching the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Just as Paul, after his Damascus experience, became a witness to the Gentiles, restored Israel will become a final witness to the world. Their message will not be Judaism without Christ. It will be the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob revealed fully in His Messiah, Jesus. Can you possibly imagine how today's Christianity will receive this? The world will hear just how corrupt the Word of God and the Testimony of jesus has become since the time of the apostles. This will not be a quiet and save time - it will indeed be the tribulation.

So when I say modern Israel is not automatically God’s chosen covenant nation apart from Christ, I am not saying God is finished with Israel. I am saying the opposite. God is not finished with Israel. But His purpose for Israel is not fulfilled in unbelief. It is fulfilled when Israel comes to Messiah.

Romans says they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. Daniel shows God’s covenant timetable. Revelation shows a sealed people bearing final witness. Together, they point to the same truth: Israel’s restoration comes through Jesus Christ.

So Israel has not been rejected.

Israel has been partially blinded.

Israel has been preserved.

Israel will be shown mercy.


Israel will be grafted in again.

And when God removes that blindness, the very people so long separated from their Messiah will become a final witness to the world that Jesus is Lord, the Lamb of God, the Son of David, and the promised Messiah of Israel.
Israel exists as a nation once more. It took a series of miracles for that to happen. It's taken many miracles for Israel to survive. The world hates Israel, preferring to support the followers of a mass murdering paedophile instead. Why does the world hate Israel? Because it hates God.​
 
Yes and yes, thanks.
Your post #861.

If you could specify which covenant you are referring to when you use the word "covenant".

Could you explain what the following verse means?

Luke 13:34-35
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to
gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!
Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you will not see Me until the time comes when
you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
 
That is true
No one would wish to be under the ten commandments, who understood what obeying them entails
The only folk under the written law of Mt Sinai were the Jews.

The Jews were in a covenant of blood with God to obey the law.

The entire Torah was a shadow before the light shone in the darkness.
 
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Your post #861.

If you could specify which covenant you are referring to when you use the word "covenant".

Please give me your thoughts behind this question.
Could you explain what the following verse means?

Luke 13:34-35
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to
gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!
Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you will not see Me until the time comes when
you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
This is not difficult to understand. Also, please let me know how you are applying this to Israel.
 
The only folk under the written law of Mt Sinai were the Jews.

The Jews were in a covenant of blood with God to obey the law.

The entire Torah was a shadow before the light shone in the darkness.

So the 10 Commandments only applied to the Jews?

The Jews were indeed in a covenant with God. God revealed Himself to Abraham and was it not God’s desire that Israel was supposed to be the priest to the world? Were they given the responsibility to preach the One true God and His laws? Does that tell us the 10 Commandments are / would be temporary or they would not apply to the Gentiles?

Did the cross do away with His laws or just the “ordinance’s” found in Leviticus? Were they the “shadows” of the coming Messiah?

Just a few questions based on your 3 brief statements above….
 
So the 10 Commandments only applied to the Jews?

The Jews were indeed in a covenant with God. God revealed Himself to Abraham and was it not God’s desire that Israel was supposed to be the priest to the world? Were they given the responsibility to preach the One true God and His laws? Does that tell us the 10 Commandments are / would be temporary or they would not apply to the Gentiles?

Did the cross do away with His laws or just the “ordinance’s” found in Leviticus? Were they the “shadows” of the coming Messiah?

Just a few questions based on your 3 brief statements above….
If I may. He wrote:
''The only folk under the written law of Mt Sinai were the Jews.''

To be under the law is to be under righteousness of obeying it:

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4
 
If I may. He wrote:
''The only folk under the written law of Mt Sinai were the Jews.''

To be under the law is to be under righteousness of obeying it:

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4
Thanks for your thoughts! Would you mind elaborating on this ? Are Christians required to obey His 10 Commandments? Thanks .
 
@Gideon300, I want to be sure I understand your position- are you saying the 10 commandments are done away with?

That this comes from the mouth of Jesus? Thanks.
What was written in applicable law is now in the hearts and minds of believers under the new covenant, it is instinctively known. In a believers mind they should instinctively know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness, covet. So, the words ten commandments should b e redundant for the believer today. The law is internal, not external. The words ten commandments speak of an external law
 
What was written in applicable law is now in the hearts and minds of believers under the new covenant, it is instinctively known. In a believers mind they should instinctively know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness, covet. So, the words ten commandments should b e redundant for the believer today. The law is internal, not external. The words ten commandments speak of an external law
Thank you again. If the law was written in the hearts of men does that mean they are any less important? I don’t think this means they are now “instinctive”.

How can His Words be redundant? The 10 commandments were / are applicable both before and after the cross?

The 10 commandments were purposefully written on stone because they were permanent and should not be changed / altered / modified / by man. Does any of that change because God will now write them in our hearts?
 
Thanks for your thoughts! Would you mind elaborating on this ? Are Christians required to obey His 10 Commandments? Thanks .
Are christians required to not lust/have sexual desire unless it is for their spouse?
Are christians required never to desire anything of their neighbours?
Are christians required to never tell any even little fibs about another?
Are christians required to never erect any graven image in their mind?
Are christians required to never put anything before God in their life?

If they were required to fully obey all of those things to enter Heaven, how many believers would enter Heaven?
They know God does not want them to do them, but we all fail
So required to enter Heaven would not be a good way to view it

Would you answer a question?
What does Paul mean when he states: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
 
Thank you again. If the law was written in the hearts of men does that mean they are any less important? I don’t think this means they are now “instinctive”.

How can His Words be redundant? The 10 commandments were / are applicable both before and after the cross?

The 10 commandments were purposefully written on stone because they were permanent and should not be changed / altered / modified / by man. Does any of that change because God will now write them in our hearts?
I
Thank you again. If the law was written in the hearts of men does that mean they are any less important? I don’t think this means they are now “instinctive”.

How can His Words be redundant? The 10 commandments were / are applicable both before and after the cross?

The 10 commandments were purposefully written on stone because they were permanent and should not be changed / altered / modified / by man. Does any of that change because God will now write them in our hearts?
If the law is in your mind, why is it not instinctively known?
Should you not know in your mind what is in your mind?
 
Are christians required to not lust/have sexual desire unless it is for their spouse?
Are christians required never to desire anything of their neighbours?
Are christians required to never tell any even little fibs about another?
Are christians required to never erect any graven image in their mind?
Are christians required to never put anything before God in their life?

If they were required to fully obey all of those things to enter Heaven, how many believers would enter Heaven?
They know God does not want them to do them, but we all fail
So required to enter Heaven would not be a good way to view it

Oh, but I never said that we will or will not go to heaven if we fail to keep them? But that is much different than the question, “should we obey His 10 Commandments?”
Would you answer a question?
What does Paul mean when he states: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believes.

Paul means that Christ is the fulfillment, goal, and righteous completion of the law, so that righteousness is given to every believer through Him rather than earned through law-keeping.

So the law is not the Savior. Christ is. And, the law can reveal sin, the law can define righteousness, the law can point forward to Messiah, but the law cannot justify the sinner or give life apart from Christ.