More about Israel.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Joshua 1:4 God promised Joshua that the land of Israel would include territory extending “from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Mediterranean Sea in the west.” This territory would include the land from the southern tip of Israel along the Red Sea to the Euphrates River on the east, the border of Syria on the north (land of the Hittites), and the Mediterranean Sea (Great Sea) to the west. As of yet, Israel has not controlled this entire land area.

In Joshua’s time, much of the land of Canaan was brought under Israelite control. In the time of David and his son Solomon (approximately 1000 BC, or 400 years after Joshua), a wide area of land was under Israel’s control or influence. Yet the entire territory promised to Israel in Scripture, both in Joshua 1:4 and elsewhere, has yet to be fulfilled.

Some point to a passage later in the book of Joshua as contradicting the promise of Joshua 1:4. After the conquest of Canaan, the historical account says, “So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass” (Joshua 21:43–45). There is really no contradiction. At the time referred to in Joshua 21, all of Israel’s enemies were subdued. No one posed a threat to God’s people. God had given them a right to everything He had promised in Joshua 1:4, and they were authorized to take possession of the entire land—all the way to the Euphrates—as soon as they needed it and as soon as they called on the Lord for aid. The fact that they never did so does not negate the fact that God had kept His promise. Got Questions

This has always amazed me, how men can in the 21st century tell us what the borders of the ancient countries were, in exact boundary details; and contradict what they see described in scripture; and in that manner contradicting the explicit, plain statements of God's word. So, men today know better than Joshua did when he wrote many centuries past, in the time frame meant he had direct knowledge of? This is an example where I like the British Methodist, Arminian Adam Clarke on Joshua's text, Josh. 21:43 -

"The cavil is as foolish as it is unprincipled which states, "The Israelites never did possess the whole of the land which was promised to them, and therefore that promise could not come by Divine revelation." With as much reason might it be urged that Great Britain has not subdued the French West India Islands and Batavia, (Feb. 1812,) because the ancient inhabitants still remain in them; but is not their serving under tribute an absolute proof that they are conquered, and under the British dominion? So was the whole land of Canaan conquered, and its inhabitants subdued, though the whole of the ground was not occupied by the Israelites till the days of David and Solomon. In the most correct and literal sense it might be said, There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel: all came to pass. Nor shall one word of his ever fail to any of his followers while the sun and moon endure."
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
If we carry on to verse12 of Zech 14 it states:
This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

That would seem to me a description of what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
If we carry on to verse12 of Zech 14 it states:
This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

That would seem to me a description of what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki

I agree that sounds like what will likely happen at Armageddon
 
But do you believe what it says? Are you able to acknowledge that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled when the Roman soldier pierced Jesus side? John said it was. Do you believe what is written?
That verse does not have to apply in only one case. In the chapter you mentioned it regards to when all of the peoples of the earth are gathered against Jerusalem. And the following happens:

'''The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honour of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.'''


And ALL the clans will mourn

But Im sure, you can somehow fit it all in with the crucifixion of Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
I spoke too soon...
Maybe, but Jesus was accused of being possessed by beelzebub, and I have just been told the devil is deceiving my mind.
But Jesus did say the student is not above their master
If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!(or to be told they are possessed/deceived by Beelzebul)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
This has always amazed me, how men can in the 21st century tell us what the borders of the ancient countries were, in exact boundary details; and contradict what they see described in scripture; and in that manner contradicting the explicit,

It is amazing indeed, that someone decided to say back a hundred years ago or so, "this was not fulfilled" and then it was repeated and repeated so often it became almost unquestionable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jon777
We need to look at 2 different things.

- is it God's plan to have current Israel state? I think yes, just like roman empire, Greek empire, all under God's big plan.

- is it God's will for Christian to support current Israel state? I think no, because they are very parents, against God. Just as we shouldn't be in the crowd to shout crucify Him, crucify Him. We should be in the crowd to throw stone to kill Stephen.....
God's plan. We have different responsibilities. Our responsibility is to follow Jesus and His commandments.
 
They have not been fulfilled, the Jews have not possessed the entire land God promised. I don't reject Scripture, I reject your view of Scripture.
I know the above comment was not directed towards me, but I do have a sincere question for you:

Do you believe that there are two different Israels spoken of in scripture?

If you don't, then I can easily prove to you that there are.

If you do, then have you ever considered that you are attributing certain promises made to Israel with the wrong Israel?

I have a lot of things to do today, so I might not be back until later this evening, but I would appreciate it if you would answer my question. Thank you.​
 
How is it still of the Jews?
That question is only asked when you don't have a proper understanding of what it meant in the first place

It means that God’s plan of deliverance originated through the Jewish people, who were chosen to act as the historical custodians of God’s covenants, Scriptures, and the Messiah's human lineage
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
This has always amazed me, how men can in the 21st century tell us what the borders of the ancient countries were, in exact boundary details; and contradict what they see described in scripture; and in that manner contradicting the explicit, plain statements of God's word. So, men today know better than Joshua did when he wrote many centuries past, in the time frame meant he had direct knowledge of? This is an example where I like the British Methodist, Arminian Adam Clarke on Joshua's text, Josh. 21:43 -

"The cavil is as foolish as it is unprincipled which states, "The Israelites never did possess the whole of the land which was promised to them, and therefore that promise could not come by Divine revelation." With as much reason might it be urged that Great Britain has not subdued the French West India Islands and Batavia, (Feb. 1812,) because the ancient inhabitants still remain in them; but is not their serving under tribute an absolute proof that they are conquered, and under the British dominion? So was the whole land of Canaan conquered, and its inhabitants subdued, though the whole of the ground was not occupied by the Israelites till the days of David and Solomon. In the most correct and literal sense it might be said, There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel: all came to pass. Nor shall one word of his ever fail to any of his followers while the sun and moon endure."

They have not possessed the entire promised land from then till now. It says never to be uprooted again. The full land has not been possessed for the full amount of time.
 
I know the above comment was not directed towards me, but I do have a sincere question for you:

Do you believe that there are two different Israels spoken of in scripture?

If you don't, then I can easily prove to you that there are.

If you do, then have you ever considered that you are attributing certain promises made to Israel with the wrong Israel?

I have a lot of things to do today, so I might not be back until later this evening, but I would appreciate it if you would answer my question. Thank you.​

No, I believe in only one Israel.
 
That verse does not have to apply in only one case. In the chapter you mentioned it regards to when all of the peoples of the earth are gathered against Jerusalem. And the following happens:

'''The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honour of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.'''


And ALL the clans will mourn

But Im sure, you can somehow fit it all in with the crucifixion of Christ.

As I said it's not all one prophecy just because it's in the same chapter. That link I posted explains how the Maccabees did indeed liberate the towns of Judah first, and then Jerusalem was liberated as Zechariah foretold.

The mourning did indeed happen among Jesus' disciples when he was killed.
 
As I said it's not all one prophecy just because it's in the same chapter. That link I posted explains how the Maccabees did indeed liberate the towns of Judah first, and then Jerusalem was liberated as Zechariah foretold.

The mourning did indeed happen among Jesus' disciples when he was killed.
Jesus disciples is not all the clans.
And it all flows as events following events
 
That question is only asked when you don't have a proper understanding of what it meant in the first place

It means that God’s plan of deliverance originated through the Jewish people, who were chosen to act as the historical custodians of God’s covenants, Scriptures, and the Messiah's human lineage

I agree that Christ and scripture came out of the Jews, and but my question was what does that have to do with any Jew living today? Christians have been the guardians of the faith and scripture for the past 2000 years.
 
They have not been fulfilled,
They have been, and you reject the many scriptures I have shown you and others, you basically calling God a liar, I know its not intentional, but it is none the less. All the earthly land promises for natural israel have been ALL Fulfilled as God promised
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere