More about Israel.

[Thaddeus]

Neither do we drink Jesus' blood and eat his flesh. It's figurative language the prophets frequently used to describe visions they saw very dimly and impressions they perceived in the spirit.

The first part is about Jerusalem being attacked
The second, Christ defeating the people who attacked Jerusalem, all part of one prophecy
Following on from that
‘And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you believe that there are two different Israels spoken of in scripture?

Dispensationalists can only see a physical Israel. They are unable to understand what spiritual Israel is.

 

[legion]

I agree that Christ and scripture came out of the Jews, and but my question was what does that have to do with any Jew living today? Christians have been the guardians of the faith and scripture for the past 2000 years.

Well that's only partly true because the Old Testament was always governed by the Jewish people however I understand your question through the extent that the statement was relevant when it was made and all it was saying is that it came through the Jews

And if you recall this is still true because the Jews did not accept Jesus and therefore the process of salvation was given to the Gentiles so as to make the Jews jealous and draw them to Jesus

So it was in fact to the Jews first no matter how you look at it it is now a matter of historical fact

 

[legion]

Dispensationalists can only see a physical Israel. They are unable to understand what spiritual Israel is.

Well that's a misrepresentation of dispensational belief they full well understand what spiritual Israel is

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The first part is about Jerusalem being attacked
The second, Christ defeating the people who attacked Jerusalem, all part of one prophecy
Following on from that
‘And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication...

OK it's pointless to keep going because I can see you are attached to your unbelief.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Well that's a misrepresentation of dispensational belief they full well understand what spiritual Israel is

Tell me then, what is it?

 

[Thaddeus]

OK it's pointless to keep going because I can see you are attached to your unbelief.

Well I have much belief in what the bible actually states, not trying to theologise to overturn the plain words of it. You see it the devil has swayed my mind. I see it, you are using your natural mind to try and understand, so you are correct, it is pointless to keep going on

 

[HeIsHere]

Dispensationalists can only see a physical Israel. They are unable to understand what spiritual Israel is.

It really is that way >>>>>goes back to the entire method of interpretation they invented which was required to make dispensationalism seem biblical.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Well that's only partly true because the Old Testament was always governed by the Jewish people however I understand your question through the extent that the statement was relevant when it was made and all it was saying is that it came through the Jews

And if you recall this is still true because the Jews did not accept Jesus and therefore the process of salvation was given to the Gentiles so as to make the Jews jealous and draw them to Jesus

So it was in fact to the Jews first no matter how you look at it it is now a matter of historical fact

Of course it was to the Jews first. Who is contesting that? Scripture is no longer "governed" (whatever that means) by Jews

 

[Aaron56]

Palestinians are gentiles, lol.

Right?! Lol!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It really is that way >>>>>goes back to the entire method of interpretation they invented which was required to make dispensationalism seem biblical.

It's a real mesmerization of the mind that can look at scripture that explicitly says this is the fulfillment of that prophecy and say the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's a real mesmerization of the mind that can look at scripture that explicitly says this is the fulfillment of that prophecy and say the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.

I get it in one way cause I was kinda indoctrinated the same for a time ......but then I really do not get.... just a bit of questioning caused the whole thing to fall apart.

But the consequences this "mesmerization" makes me truly ill.... if brought to fruition.

 

[legion]

Tell me then, what is it?

Well while I am not here to defend dispensationalism itself the answer to your question is this:

Dispensationalism sharply distinguishes between literal (ethnic/national) Israel and the Church (often referred to as spiritual Israel). It maintains that God has two separate plans for these groups: literal Israel’s promises are earthly and literal, while the Church’s promises are spiritual and heavenly

 

[legion]

It really is that way >>>>>goes back to the entire method of interpretation they invented which was required to make dispensationalism seem biblical.

You should be careful slamming dispensationalism while it has a number of issues in its theology it has far less than most other theologies in existence

 

[legion]

Of course it was to the Jews first. Who is contesting that? Scripture is no longer "governed" (whatever that means) by Jews

Jesus Christ you people will make a mountain out of a molehill I'm sorry I used the word governed I meant the Old Testament is about Israel

 

[legion]

Right?! Lol!

In a religious context, the term "gentile" (derived from the Latin gentiles) translates to "of or relating to a nation or clan" and is primarily used to refer to anyone who is not Jewish. Because the vast majority of Palestinians are not Jewish—the population is predominantly Sunni Muslim, along with a significant minority of Christians—they are considered gentiles in Jewish religious law

 

[brightfame52]

literal Israel’s promises are earthly and literal, while the Church’s promises are spiritual and heavenly

Abrahams was heavenly he looked for Heb 11:15-16

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 ;But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Its the heavenly Kingdom 2 Tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Abraham will be there Matt 8:11

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You should be careful slamming dispensationalism while it has a number of issues in its theology it has far less than most other theologies in existence

It's main issue is that it's a doctrine of demons that causes godly fruit to wither on the vine, so to speak. A double-minded person is unstable in all of their ways, and dispensationalism is a schizo doctrine with baked-in unbelief.

 

[dkontner]

No man is justified by the flesh. The dispensationalist don't understand.

Matthew 8
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They have been, and you reject the many scriptures I have shown you and others, you basically calling God a liar,

No, posts like these are getting really old. I'm not calling God a liar, I'm saying you are misunderstanding the Scriptures. History and the Bible back what I am saying, the Jews have not possessed the entire land given to them and lived there in safety, not being uprooted again.