False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture
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So one clause negates the other clause in the same sentence???
In grammar that's called a double negative. In theology its called desperation.
Do you use this reasoning in other aspects of your life? I doubt it.
Would you use this reasoning with Proverbs 28:13? Does one clause negate the meaning of the other?
Would you use this reasoning with Romans 10: 9 or Romans 10:10? Does each independent clause negate the other?
Example:
The Postmaster stated that whoever brings their parcel properly packaged and with correct postage will have it delivered but poorly sealed parcels with not be delivered.
Does the lack of "correct postage" in the second clause negate its need for the package to be delivered?
I cannot make this any easier.
That's not what is usual meant by a double negative. I double negative is when somebody says something like, "I wasn't doing nothing," (two negatives - "wasn't" and "nothing") when they really mean, "I wasn't doing anything."
No, just a comment on your post, made because I had never come across the term "double negative" to mean one clause negating another clause.
Would you prefer "talking out of both sides of your mouth" to describe your comment from Post# 459.
Regardless, your comment reeks of desperation.
My post 459 was a short one, just saying that Jesus did not say, "He who does not believe and is not baptized shall be condemned.." How is that "talking out of both sides of my mouth?"
Besides, there are many verses in the Bible that say that those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved. Just a few examples:
(Joh 3:15) so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
(Joh 6:47) Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
(Act 16:31) So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Amen! If he who believes will be saved, (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26 etc..) then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well, (Mark 16:16) yet Jesus did not say whoever is not baptized will be condemned. Mark 16:16(b) ..but he who does not believe will be condemned.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *Hermeneutics.
To agree with someone is to have fellowship them, regardless of their denomination.It is all very relevant agreed.
When I applied for membership with my Church, I was asked if I believe the following.
Scripture Alone: The Bible is the infallible, inerrant, and supreme authority for all matters of faith and practice.
Faith Alone: Justification before God is received through faith alone, entirely apart from human works or merit.
Grace Alone: Salvation is an entirely unearned, free gift of God's grace from beginning to end.
Christ Alone: Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross is the only sufficient foundation for our redemption.
Glory to God Alone: Everything in salvation and creation is ultimately designed to bring glory to God alone.
I did agree with these foundational doctrines, and then I joined the membership classes which were held every Wednesday night for three months. I was then baptised and received into the Church. My family and relatives are all Roman Catholic, most of them consider me to be a traitor for joining the opposition. So we can't have fellowship, I lost one family but gained another.
I would just like to add that all believers should be baptised if practical. Some believers were converted and died before they had the chance to be baptised. The thief on the cross is one such case, but I'm sure there have been many more instances where sinners were saved on their death bed.
Some of my Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic friends, believe that Baptism/Christening is a new beginning where the person's sins are washed away and if the new person lives a pious life of sacrifice, discipline and obeys the Churches directives and teaching, they will be saved in the end.
It's a small price to pay for following the Lord Jesus. We have enjoyed "religious freedom" in the western democracies for a long time, it hasn't cost us much so far. But we don't know how log that will last.
Many Christians are being martyred around the world, everyday in Muslim countries and communist dictatorships.
From the way things are looking, our religious freedom in America is beginning to erode and Christian persecution in America may not be too far off. I believe it is inevitable.
In what way does these verses affect what Jesus said in Mark 16:16?
On the issue of "talking out of both sides of your mouth", simple.
You are implying that Jesus was both stating that baptism is needed to be saved and in the same sentence that baptism is not needed.
Why did you feel the need to place membership with this church if you knew your fate by election was not in question?
Would staying in the Roman Catholic Church have effected your election?
No I'm not implying that. I take the verse as meaning that those who believe should then be baptized. (We have examples such as the Ethiopian, and the Philippian jailer, who believed, and then were baptized.) Those who do not believe are condemned.
Catholics who are very tied to their religion have that type of reaction and I have experienced some of that response initially from family members as well, although generally speaking most have left the church because of its many scandals.
What I have learned from those people who cling tightly to a denomination or system of theology is don't do it......always test your understanding and make sure it always as it's starting point that God is Love.
I understand ..and yes we can find common ground with believers and that is important for sure, yet to grow in Christ we must pursue His truth and while that is a lot of work it is worth it, if we are truly wanting to grow in Him.
I cannot abide by a doctrine that teaches limited atonement along with man's inherent inability to respond positively to the Good News of Christ Jesus such that God chooses those He wants to save, I find that to be at the pinnacle of disturbing doctrines circulating in the church, so while I have had friends in those types of denominations I would never go to one of their services.
The Lord Jesus shocked His Disciples in, - "Matthew 10:21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death".
It's one thing to be persecuted and put to death by a tyrannical Dictator, but it's hard to believe that unbelieving family members can be just as hostile towards believers.
Another controversial passage of scripture is found in the same chapter, - Matthew 10:34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.
Gods people have always been hated by the unbelieving world, all of the Apostles, except for John were executed. And many of the Prophets who came before them were also hated and killed.
I don't pretend to know why God allows, or predestines this to happen. But I know He has a good reason for everything He does.