In your opinion is the entire Bible "inerrant" or "infallible" as it relates to scripture?
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So lets take look at each: Apologetics still splits Christianity into over 40,000 competing sects.
Creed? Which Creed?
While the Kerygma is the initial "Good News" that grabs your heart, the Creed (such as the Apostles' Creed or Nicene Creed) acts as the official summary of everything the Church teaches. Early Christians used the Kerygma to convert people, and later developed the Creeds to ensure the community maintained the correct teachings.
I believe the entire Bible is Spiritually True and infallible in its Spiritual Truth.
Grammatically, historically, scientifically .... Maybe not so much. But I wasn't present for most of it.
Grammatically, historically, scientifically .... Maybe not so much. But I wasn't present for most of it.
This seems to be a pattern since this is the third thread I've seen where you point to flawed human beings and negative examples as a reason to denigrate the Bible. Christians should always put their faith in Jesus Christ, not local churches or people. Human misunderstanding, ignorance, or perversion of the Bible does not in any way negate the absolute truth of God's Word.
When you push this narrative so hard in multiple threads and try to convince others of the same, it comes across as "the gentleman doth protest too much". Kind of sounds like you have anger/resentment issues, and maybe you've experienced something negative with a church or something.
I just hope and pray God will open your eyes to His truth.
Because so-called Christians/saints remain sinners, who sin against GW/the HS.
Unity based on the kerygmatic Gospel/Creed is more important than purity regarding didachaic doctrines.
Most Creeds are deficient because they do not focus on answering the question, "What is God's requirement for salvation?"
My proposed Creed/answer attempts to be both succinct and comprehensive. I recently realized it needed to add a statement based upon general revelation, which is what most of the world has been given until people acquire knowledge of the NT. The amended version is this:
The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6) or “Love Jesus as Messiah and Lord” (John 8:42). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in these statements can be explained or elaborated as follows:
1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).
Baptism? Lordship of our surrendered self?
What does repent mean in your creed?
What does moral accountability mean?
Is there a distinction between salvation and heaven?
When does the the wonderful life of love, joy and peace start?
How is this possible in Heaven knowing your loved ones are burning in anguished eternal torture? Does God wipe your memory clean? If so, everybody you meet in heaven will be a total stranger.
What of the billions of human beings who have lived and died with no knowledge salvation or ability to be "saved?"
How can people be both hopeless and not hopeless at the same time?
So the all loving God created mankind to fuel the furnaces of hell? If someone never heard the "truth" how can what they believe be lies? Calling "all loving" a God that killed every living thing on earth...that He created, save one family and some animals. This same God over and over ordered the killing of women and children.
This is the God that killed 70,000 innocent citizens to teach David a lesson.
This is a God that rewarded Abraham (twice) and Isaac for prostituting their wives.
This is a God that killed two Christians for insufficient candor about the nature of their offerings.
He killed all the people, men, women and children in an entire kingdom.
God told Israel's first king, "Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." God told the Israelites when conquering the land commanding the Israelites to "not leave alive anything that breathes."
What does repent mean in your creed?
What does moral accountability mean?
Is there a distinction between salvation and heaven?
When does the the wonderful life of love, joy and peace start?
How is this possible in Heaven knowing your loved ones are burning in anguished eternal torture? Does God wipe your memory clean? If so, everybody you meet in heaven will be a total stranger.
What of the billions of human beings who have lived and died with no knowledge salvation or ability to be "saved?"
How can people be both hopeless and not hopeless at the same time?
So the all loving God created mankind to fuel the furnaces of hell? If someone never heard the "truth" how can what they believe be lies? Calling "all loving" a God that killed every living thing on earth...that He created, save one family and some animals. This same God over and over ordered the killing of women and children.
This is the God that killed 70,000 innocent citizens to teach David a lesson.
This is a God that rewarded Abraham (twice) and Isaac for prostituting their wives.
This is a God that killed two Christians for insufficient candor about the nature of their offerings.
He killed all the people, men, women and children in an entire kingdom.
God told Israel's first king, "Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." God told the Israelites when conquering the land commanding the Israelites to "not leave alive anything that breathes."
You are apparently purposeful perversion of my position. I have said nothing against the bible. I believe the bible is true. I have accurately and historically asked a simple question Of Your Dogma. Correct me if I misunderstand your dogma is that all who read the bible will come to the same conclusions on all issues of faith and salvation.
My observation remains unanswered. Attacking the questioner is the device used to avoid dealing with reality. Perhaps the reason you see my question often is because I am still looking for an honest answer.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
God also said that those whom He wanted killed were evil in His sight; He doesn’t destroy people for being good! There are many verses specifying why He destroys people.
Why do you focus on one part of an issue and ignore the rest? The answers are always there, you just have to read.
“As the nations which the Lord destroys before you, so you shall perish, because you would not be obedient to the voice of the Lord your God.”
Deuteronomy 8:20 NKJV
About 2.5 million Christians believe that those who were going to be saved were predestined before the world was created. If you were not one of the chosen you are going to hell. If you are, not matter how evil and wicked your life, you are heaven bound.
About 15 million Christians side with Arminius that salvation is open to all.
Emphasizes free will in salvation, allowing individuals to choose or reject God.
Believes in conditional election, where God's choice is based on foreseen faith.
Teaches that Christ's atonement is universal, available to all, not just the elect.
Asserts that grace is resistible, meaning individuals can reject God's grace.
Affirms the possibility of falling from grace, allowing for the loss of salvation.
About 1.6 billion Christians believe baptism is essential to salvation
About 2.6 billion Christians believe that salvation is by faith alone, grace alone and Christ alone.
About 625 million believe salvation comes from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
All revere and trust the Bible as the source of harmonizing theology.
The single agreed to tenant of Christianity is that all have sinned. In God's eyes "none are good." Mark 10:18. Are you saying God claims the will and right to kill any and all sinners? Not a happy picture.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
It would be simpler to just take a picture from my one page that I wrote out, but the upload is apparently too much for this platform to handle.
Hope this helps!?
Plan of Salvation
-You must Hear the word
Matt 7:24-27; Acts 2:37, 18:8, 21:20; Rom. 10:14, 17; Eph 1:13; 1 Thess. 2:13
-Believe in what you hear
Mk 16:15-16
Jn 3:16, 18; 6:47; 8:24; 12:42; 14:1; 20:31
Acts 4:4; 8:37; 11:21; 10:43; 13:39
Rom. 1:16; 10:9-10
1 Thess. 4:14
2 Tim. 1:12
Heb. 11:6
James 2:24
-Repent of your sins
Lk 13:3, 5
Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 17:30; 26:20
Romans 2:4
2 Cor. 7:10
2 Pet. 3:9
-Confess His name before men
Matt. 10:32-33
Acts 8:36-37
Rom. 10:9-10
Phili. 2:11
1 Jn. 4:2, 15
-Be immersed/ Baptized to wash away your sins
Matt. 28:19
Mk. 16:16
Jn. 3:3, 5
Acts 1:5; 2:38, 41; 8:12, 11:16; 16, 36-38; 9:18; 10:48; 16:15, 33; 18:8, 22:16
Rom. 6:3-4;
1 Cor. 12:13
Gal. 3:27
Col. 2:12
-Then you must live a Faithful Life in Him
Matt. 7:21
Jn. 14:15, 23
Acts 10:34-35
Rom. 6:16 (Who are you serving? There are only 2 choices—- Jesus, or Satan)
2 Thess. 1:7-9
2 Tim. 4:7-8; 3:15
Heb. 5:8-9; 10:38
James 2:24
1 Pet. 1:22-24; 5:9-10; 1:5
Rev. 2:10
Regarding your questions about whether various topics such as baptism should be included, please remember that the parameter for inclusion is whether it is at least implied by the brief confessions such as “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (Acts 16:31).
1. Baptism? Accepting Jesus as Lord implies desiring to cooperate with his command to love everyone, but details about baptism are not necessary to understand in order to be saved.
2. Lordship of our surrendered self? "Lordship" is defined in #4 as "trying to obey His commandment to love one another forever".
3. What does repent mean in your creed? "Repent" is defined in #4 as "accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord".
4. What does moral accountability mean? "Moral accountability" is described in #2 as being "selfish, sinful, and hell-bound at the judgment when they reject God’s salvation".
5. Is there a distinction between salvation and heaven?
When does the the wonderful life of love, joy and peace start?
Per #1 salvation is "a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace" that begins at the moment a soul accepts Jesus as Lord and continues perfectly after being resurrected to heaven.
6. How is this possible in Heaven knowing your loved ones are burning in anguished eternal torture?
So the all loving God created mankind to fuel the furnaces of hell?
Joy is possible in heaven by realizing that suffering in hell is the just consequence of doing evil. Evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (Matt. 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).
7. Does God wipe your memory clean? If so, everybody you meet in heaven will be a total stranger. True, so memories that would spoil heaven will be forgotten, but happy memories will continue forever.
8. What of the billions of human beings who have lived and died with no knowledge salvation or ability to be "saved?"
If someone never heard the "truth" how can what they believe be lies?
As I say in the Kerygma thread, an obvious question to ask at this point is, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?” (which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.) If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received, which includes general revelation via meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience.
Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, beginning with the Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12).
9. How can people be both hopeless and not hopeless at the same time?
Sinners are selfish, miserable and hopeless or hell-bound at the judgment when/during the time they reject God’s salvation, which hopefully will not continue until death, at which time the possibility of salvation ends.
10. Calling "all loving" a God that killed every living thing on earth...that He created, save one family and some animals. This same God over and over ordered the killing of women and children. This is the God that killed 70,000 innocent citizens to teach David a lesson.
This is a God that rewarded Abraham (twice) and Isaac for prostituting their wives. This is a God that killed two Christians for insufficient candor about the nature of their offerings. He killed all the people, men, women and children in an entire kingdom.
God told Israel's first king, "Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." God told the Israelites when conquering the land commanding the Israelites to "not leave alive anything that breathes."
This is why we are Christians rather than Jews. OT history should be interpreted in light of NT teachings that God allows suffering for the purpose of teaching souls their need of His salvation/heaven.
I've made an observation based upon your numerous posts denigrating the Bible and Christianity in general. When anyone gives you supporting scripture that God's Word is the truth, your default position is 'But 10's of thousands of denominations disagree!!!'. That's literally all you've got in trying to make your case.
Those quotes indicate you view the Bible as insufficient and even problematic. God says otherwise -
2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Prov 30:5 Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
2 Thess 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Many people have spent time and energy giving you honest answers. You've just chosen to reject them all.
I tend to align with the Chicago Statement on Biblical inerrancy.
It's a rather long and involved treatise on the various aspects of scripture and their perfection. If you are incapable of using Google to find it...what are you doing here?
That being said.
There are some noteworthy exceptions to the norm that I do tend to follow....such as "Born From Above" vx again....in John 3
And
The final.prayer Jesus prayed before the arrest....the contested sections need to be removed.
I also restore John 8 to Mark's Gospel...and if you arexas good a student of scripture as you believe then you also know exactly where and why...
AND
In the Old Testament I insert the Dead Sea Scroll additions to the song in Deuteronomy. Because of the rhythm the Hebrew makes is restored when included....nevermind how upset people get over Genesis 6. Right is right....and fantastic tales belong in Hollywood.
All caught up?
Again, unfounded disparagement of the questioner. I have neither "accepted nor rejected" any feedback. What I do is continue to probe at those responses that lack any context or any thought other than using google or a commentary to create quotes that equate to word salads that never deal with reality. Clearly stated. There 10's of thousands of churches that aggressively deny the validity of the others Christianity but ALL claim they can "prove they are right" by using the bible. Why do you think this is happening?