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C
You do have a point. The reason why many fall away, and let's be honest - people abandon the faith all the time in every denomination you can think of - is because the vast majority of churches teach a carnal understanding of grace.
Newer believers (and some sinners) read the scriptures about how God Himself hates sin then looks at the sinfulness of the church as a whole and all they see are hypocrites. Others feel condemned when they find themselves battling with their own selfish desires and give up when they realize that practically all modern mainline denominations offer no solution to the problem.
If you poll the vast majority of modern believers they will tell you that they often find themselves falling into sinful tendencies. Some live a life of perpetual repentance while others are begin to embrace the heresy that God simply ignores your sin after salvation thus no further repentance is needed after salvation.
The modern church has lost sight of a biblical view of Grace, the kind of grace that can only be obtained when we surrender ourselves fully to the indwelling Christ.
Newer believers (and some sinners) read the scriptures about how God Himself hates sin then looks at the sinfulness of the church as a whole and all they see are hypocrites. Others feel condemned when they find themselves battling with their own selfish desires and give up when they realize that practically all modern mainline denominations offer no solution to the problem.
If you poll the vast majority of modern believers they will tell you that they often find themselves falling into sinful tendencies. Some live a life of perpetual repentance while others are begin to embrace the heresy that God simply ignores your sin after salvation thus no further repentance is needed after salvation.
The modern church has lost sight of a biblical view of Grace, the kind of grace that can only be obtained when we surrender ourselves fully to the indwelling Christ.
C
Any attempt to use Once Saved Always Saved as a means to justify your own sinful tendencies is heretical. No where in the bible does it say that a person can be saved in sin. Nowhere in the bible does ay that grace somehow justifies sin. You won't find it. Anywhere...
Many of today's top denominations are in trouble.
Many of today's top denominations are in trouble.
John 3:36 (KJV)
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
yeah, they do...
they hear His voice... and follow Him... only when they do that can they not be plucked from His Hand...
that "they" which is used in verse 28 and 29 refers to "those who hear His voice... and follow Him"... the verse says nothing about those who first hear His voice and Follow Him, but then stop...
what happens if they stop hearing and following?
they hear His voice... and follow Him... only when they do that can they not be plucked from His Hand...
that "they" which is used in verse 28 and 29 refers to "those who hear His voice... and follow Him"... the verse says nothing about those who first hear His voice and Follow Him, but then stop...
what happens if they stop hearing and following?
exactly, dillinger... that's exactly my point. Calvinists and OSASers always use John 10:27-28 to try and prove that no one can lose their salvation...
but fail to see that the context of v28 "no one will snatch them out of my hand" is applied to those only mentioned in v27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me"... Jesus is specifically speaking about those who hear Him and follow Him... ONLY those who hear Him and follow Him.
He says nothing about those who start to hear Him and follow Him, but fall away, or stray from the faith... this verse does not address those people... other Bible verses do address those people though...
Hymenaeus and Alexander (1 Tiimothy 1:18-20) they shipwrecked their faith
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:16-18) they departed from the truth
Demas, who was a friend of Paul's (Colossians 4:14) and a fellow worker in the faith (Philemon 1:24), but fell away because of his love of the world (2 Timothy 4:10)
King Saul, whom God appointed to be King, yet his disobedience to God caused his downfall. the Spirit of the Lord departed him, and an evil spirit of the Lord tormented him (1 Samuel 16:14)
1 Timothy 4:15-16
15 Practice these things; be committed to them, so that your progress may be evident to all.
16 Be conscientious about yourself and your teaching; persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Paul tells Timothy to persevere and keep in the faith... this specifically does not say once saved always saved... this shows nothing but perseverance... and perseverance is not a work... perseverance is simply staying true to the faith, standing firm in Christ, following Him, and hearing His voice... in doing exactly that, we have Life in the Son
but fail to see that the context of v28 "no one will snatch them out of my hand" is applied to those only mentioned in v27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me"... Jesus is specifically speaking about those who hear Him and follow Him... ONLY those who hear Him and follow Him.
He says nothing about those who start to hear Him and follow Him, but fall away, or stray from the faith... this verse does not address those people... other Bible verses do address those people though...
Hymenaeus and Alexander (1 Tiimothy 1:18-20) they shipwrecked their faith
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:16-18) they departed from the truth
Demas, who was a friend of Paul's (Colossians 4:14) and a fellow worker in the faith (Philemon 1:24), but fell away because of his love of the world (2 Timothy 4:10)
King Saul, whom God appointed to be King, yet his disobedience to God caused his downfall. the Spirit of the Lord departed him, and an evil spirit of the Lord tormented him (1 Samuel 16:14)
1 Timothy 4:15-16
15 Practice these things; be committed to them, so that your progress may be evident to all.
16 Be conscientious about yourself and your teaching; persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Paul tells Timothy to persevere and keep in the faith... this specifically does not say once saved always saved... this shows nothing but perseverance... and perseverance is not a work... perseverance is simply staying true to the faith, standing firm in Christ, following Him, and hearing His voice... in doing exactly that, we have Life in the Son