1948 Not THE Fulfillment of Prophecy

[Beekeeper]

The term 'Replacement Theology' is just a strawman used by Dispensationalists as a scare tactic. No one is saying the Church 'replaced' the nation of Israel. What the NT teaches is that the Church is a fulfillment of the nation Israel as the people of God. Those of faith are the seed of Abraham, the Israel of God. Gal 6:16.
All the promises in the OT are fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ who is the True Israel.
At the present moment in time, there is only ONE people of God-the Church, comprising of both Jew and Gentile. Eph 3.

Israel as a nation has been rejected because of its unbelief and rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. As a branch, it has been cut off from the covenantal blessings of God. Rm 11. Sometime in the future, 'all Israel will be saved', and that will place them in the Church, the Body of Christ not separated from it.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

I will also point out that in this chapter Paul is concerned with a REMNANT of his kinsmen whom God "foreknew".
Not with every member of the modern interpretations of Judaism.
They will receive the promises of God to Abraham and their fathers through Christ.
The land promise will also be fulfilled in the heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Lovette]

At best, 1948 was a staging of future fulfillment of prophecy, not THE fulfillment of it. If we read the Bible for what it says, Abraham was promised approximately 1.2 million square kilometers of land. Israel today occupies at most about 2% of all that was promised to Abraham and his descendants. That is NOT a fulfillment as of yet. Israel is currently a political/military state with most of the Jews still scattered across the earth, not yet gathered together in that land. With about 50% of Jews are Russian-speaking Jews living in Jerusalem and the surrounding few towns and cities. There are far more orthodox Jews living abroad from Israel than are currently living within its tiny little borders.

For reference, see:

• Genesis 12:1–3 — initial call; promise of a land to go to.
• Genesis 12:7 — promise: "To your offspring I will give this land."
• Genesis 13:14–17 — promise of all the land that Abram can see to his offspring.
• Genesis 15:7–21 — covenant: God specifies territory for Abram's descendants (lists boundaries, including "from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates").
• Genesis 17:1–8 — promise of land and an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his descendants.
• Genesis 22:15–18 — reaffirmation of blessing and numerous descendants (implied possession).
• Exodus 6:2–8 — God reiterates to Moses the promise made to the patriarchs that He will bring the Israelites into the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
• Leviticus 25:23 — land is described as a possession for the Israelites (ties into covenant land concepts).
• Deuteronomy 1:8; 34:4 — restatements of the land promise to the people.
• Joshua 1:2–4 — God’s promise to Joshua: all the land shown to Moses (boundaries described).
• Psalm 105:8–11 — poetic restatement of the covenant and land promises to Abraham and his offspring.

Brief notes:

• Genesis 15:18–21 contains the most explicit boundary language (listing peoples/places and the "river of Egypt" to "Euphrates").
• Different passages emphasize the promise in covenantal, narrative, and poetic forms across Torah, historical books, and Psalms.

Fulfillment of which prophecy? Of course it was not the full restoration of Israel, but it seems like the fulfillment of the fig tree parable. Most significantly, it debunks the replacement theology, that the gentile church, particularly the Catholic church, is the "new Israel."

 

[Beekeeper]

Fulfillment of which prophecy? Of course it was not the full restoration of Israel, but it seems like the fulfillment of the fig tree parable. Most significantly, it debunks the replacement theology, that the gentile church, particularly the Catholic church, is the "new Israel."

Gentile church?
Seems like an outlandish concept, particularly under Jesus the king and high priest of the Jews.
Not sure if there are Catholics in this conversation, but the existence of the Papacy does not prove that the Pope is the mouthpiece of Christ.
How then does the existence of 1948 "Israel" prove that it is the Israel of God?

 

[Lovette]

Gentile church?
Seems like an outlandish concept, particularly under Jesus the king and high priest of the Jews.
Not sure if there are Catholics in this conversation, but the existence of the Papacy does not prove that the Pope is the mouthpiece of Christ.
How then does the existence of 1948 "Israel" prove that it is the Israel of God?

How does it not?

 

[Beekeeper]

Let's allow scripture to answer that:

Rom 9:3-4
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Replacement theology says that this doesn't mean what it says, in that Gentiles too are partakers of the promises made to Abraham alone concerning the land and the Kingdom promised to only those to whom the Law was given. Gentiles were grafted into the Vine, which is Christ, not into the natural branches. God is not yet through with us of Israel.

I, on the other hand, will not be a partaker of the Kingdom because of my membership in the body of Christ Jesus. I, with all my fellow Jews who are followers of Christ, will be caught up before the Day of the Lord.

Romans 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The distinction made repeatedly throughout Paul's epistles between the circumcision and the uncircumcision, that shatters the illusions of the Gentiles who fancy replacement theology and warped beliefs about eschatology.

I hope you, unlike so many out there, are the exception rather than riding the traditional bandwagon of Westernized religion.

MM

1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

I am not pretending to know your life's story, but I am sure that coming to Christ from any brand of Judaism would not be a smooth journey, any more than it was from my former Atheism.
Many seem to carry baggage from modern Judaism, never even having been in it.
I guess you have more excuse.

A bit bazaar (in an upside down sort of way) that you equate spiritual Israel with Westernized religion.
I would have thought that modern Zionism- both political and religious, comes from the West.
Lets consider Jesus response to a direct question about the restoration of Israel:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

Notice that Jesus does not yet consider them ready to understand, because the Holy Ghost is not yet come upon them.
The restoration of the Israel of God is SPIRITUAL, and now that we have the NT completed up to Revelations, we no longer have excuse not to know that.

Reading through Paul's epistles I find him constantly breaking down "the middle wall of partition" (Ephesians 2:13-15) between the circumcision and uncircumcision in Christ Jesus.
Here is a good example:

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob,
and through Jesus we all call Him our Father.
We are all one family even with the OT saints,
and Heavenly Jerusalem is a real city.

 

[Beekeeper]

How does it not?

In exactly the same way that Abraham's effort to have a son by Hagar did NOT fulfill the promise of God.

Galatians 4:22 (ESV) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;[e] she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28 Now you,[f] brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

 

[Lovette]

In exactly the same way that Abraham's effort to have a son by Hagar did NOT fulfill the promise of God.

Galatians 4:22 (ESV) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;[e] she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28 Now you,[f] brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Then you're for false replacement theology. The son of Hagar was Ishmael, the ancestor of today's muslims. Israel on the other hand was the legitimate heir, the gentile Church is not the replacement, but expansion grafted into the olive tree of Israel.

 

[Beekeeper]

Then you're for false replacement theology. The son of Hagar was Ishmael, the ancestor of today's muslims. Israel on the other hand was the legitimate heir, the gentile Church is not the replacement, but expansion grafted into the olive tree of Israel.

If you really think that passage is about superior and inferior genealogies I may not be able to help you.
Have you never noticed that Hagar and Mt. Sinai is compared to the PRESENT JERUSALEM?
The legitimate heir is Jerusalem above.
It is spiritual, so regardless of weather we are natural branches or grafted we obtain our citizenship there by faith in Jesus.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Fulfillment of which prophecy? Of course it was not the full restoration of Israel, but it seems like the fulfillment of the fig tree parable. Most significantly, it debunks the replacement theology, that the gentile church, particularly the Catholic church, is the "new Israel."

Since Pentecost, when did percent of ethnic composition determine what Israel is? In the beginning the restored Israel was 100% composed of the natural seed of Abraham (Acts 2), but after the door was officially opened to gentiles (Acts 10) that percentage changed. Do you think Israel stopped being Israel then? No, of course it didn't. Only those who follow what the unbelieving pharisees believed and taught think so.

So no matter what percent ethnicity the body of believers in Christ is now, Israel is still Israel. Ethnic composition has nothing to do with it because all those of faith in Christ are the seed of Abraham. Have you never read how the seed of Israel would become a fullness of gentiles?

And his father [Jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed will become a fullness of gentiles. Genesis 48:19​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

How then does the existence of 1948 "Israel" prove that it is the Israel of God?

How does it not?

Because only those of faith are of God.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Many seem to carry baggage from modern Judaism, never even having been in it.

This is really funny and accurate

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then you're for false replacement theology. The son of Hagar was Ishmael, the ancestor of today's muslims. Israel on the other hand was the legitimate heir, the gentile Church is not the replacement, but expansion grafted into the olive tree of Israel.

Isaac was the legitimate heir of God's promises because God chose him to be so, not because of birthright. Likewise, from then until now only those chosen by God are his legitimate heirs. People who think they are entitled to something from God because of ethnicity, or whatever, are frauds and imposters, just as Ishmael would be to do so.

 

[Vucesa]

Then you're for false replacement theology. The son of Hagar was Ishmael, the ancestor of today's muslims. Israel on the other hand was the legitimate heir, the gentile Church is not the replacement, but expansion grafted into the olive tree of Israel.

I think the point that was being made was that the allegory Paul uses in Galatians 4 is that they the gentiles are now the sons of promise and those persecuting them are of the flesh.

 

[Beekeeper]

I think the point that was being made was that the allegory Paul uses in Galatians 4 is that they the gentiles are now the sons of promise and those persecuting them are of the flesh.

It would apply just as much to Jewish believers.
The spiritual nature of "the Jerusalem above" is the point that must not be missed.

 

[Omegatime]

It would apply just as much to Jewish believers.
The spiritual nature of "the Jerusalem above" is the point that must not be missed.

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Land grant has nothing to do with Jerusalem above

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It would apply just as much to Jewish believers.
The spiritual nature of "the Jerusalem above" is the point that must not be missed.

When I was under the spell of dispensationalism I remember being puzzled by Peter's statement in Acts 2:39 in which he said the promise to Israel was the holy spirit, not the land. That seemed odd to me because the promised land was always mentioned, but I couldn't recollect where in scripture the spirit was ever promised to Abraham.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33​

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Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38-39​

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It was promised in the prophets. For example:

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:24-26​

This was the restoration of Israel that all of the prophets foretold

And all the prophets from Samuel and as many as spoke thereafter foretold of these days. Acts 3:24​

 

[Lovette]

If you really think that passage is about superior and inferior genealogies I may not be able to help you.
Have you never noticed that Hagar and Mt. Sinai is compared to the PRESENT JERUSALEM?
The legitimate heir is Jerusalem above.
It is spiritual, so regardless of weather we are natural branches or grafted we obtain our citizenship there by faith in Jesus.

Forgive me for being a bit pessimestic, but that "Jerusalem above" is more than 1000 years away, see Rev. 21-22. Before that, Lord Jesus will descend and reign on this earth - not heaven above - for 1000 years.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

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Land grant has nothing to do with Jerusalem above

It actually does because the title-deed owner of the land resides in the heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Lovette]

Because only those of faith are of God.

You don't know what are of faith and who are not. Believe it or not, faith and spirituality are declining in America and pretty much everywhere else, but rising in Israel, especially since the Oct 7 massacre.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Forgive me for being a bit pessimestic, but that "Jerusalem above" is more than 1000 years away, see Rev. 21-22. Before that, Lord Jesus will descend and reign on this earth - not heaven above - for 1000 years.

No, it's here and now and where your spirit dwells if you are a Christian. You are thinking of the new Jerusalem that will descend from heaven to earth.

But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Hebrews 12:22​