How would you teach a seeker the Gospel of Jesus Christ ? Who is He ? What has He done to save sinners, exactly who did He die for ? Was His death successful in actually saving the sinners He died for ?
Calvinism is Gospel !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Amen!Yes, the Christians without the particular Reformed/Dortcan see the problems.
Some reformed doctrine is okay as long as it not about soteriology, in that area they go right off the rails.
The Church is divided by those who believe that the unconverted or natural man can find it within themselves to turn from their sin, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus for the remission of their sin. But the Bible doesn't support this view.Pelagian heretics deny what Scripture says of man.
Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
Ephesians 2:1-3: Paul states that unregenerate humans are "dead in the trespasses and sins" in which they once walked. Just as a physically dead person cannot respond to the physical world, a spiritually dead person cannot respond to spiritual things
1 Corinthians 2:14: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
John 8:34: Jesus declares, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin." The human will is not free; it is in bondage to its own sinful desires
Romans 3:10-11: Quoting the Psalms, Paul asserts, "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."
Romans 8:7-8: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
God never sought anyone's council to help Him make decisions. He does as He pleases, even if you don't approve. Shall the lump ask the Potter, "why hast thou made me like this".
I can't think of any scriptures where the Lord Jesus offered salvation to anyone, He wasn't selling the gospel like it was some kind of consumer product.
In the end, there are two, and only two, possible faiths. The one maintains that all mankind lies in death; that God in free and sovereign grace eternally chose some; that God gave Christ to die for those whom He chose; that the Holy Spirit regenerates them and calls them efficaciously to faith; and that the Spirit preserves these elect, redeemed, and reborn sinners unto everlasting glory. This is Calvinism.
The other faith maintains that fallen man retains some spiritual ability for good, some life; that God's choice of men depends upon their exercise of the ability for good that is in them; that Christ's death depends upon that good in man; and that the attainment of final glory depends upon that good in man. This is the enemy of Calvinism. This is the enemy of the Gospel! For Calvinism proclaims salvation by grace; the other faith preaches salvation by man's will and works and worth.
Calvinism is the Gospel! God's Gospel is the message of wholly gracious salvation. This does not mean that Calvinism is unoffensive. On the contrary! Calvin himself took note, long ago, of the offensiveness of the truth that he taught, with reference specifically to total depravity:
Just because this is the message of Calvinism, Calvinism is offensive to men. It is offensive to proud man to hear that he is spiritually dead, totally devoid of anything pleasing to God, unable at all to save himself, nothing more than a child of wrath. But this is the judgment passed upon him in Calvinism - and in the Gospel. It is offensive to proud man to hear that salvation is exclusively God's free gift and sovereign, gracious work. But this is what Calvinism - and the Gospel - proclaim.
Just because of this, Calvinism is good news! It is Gospel, glad tidings! As the message of grace, it comforts us and all those who, by the grace of the Spirit, believe in Christ. Only this message provides hope for lost, sinful, and otherwise hopeless men. There is salvation, only because salvation is gracious.
Defending Calvinism is simply a matter of defending the Gospel. Therefore, we do not defend it apologetically, or defensively, or even as if its fortunes were doubtful, dependent on our defense. As the truth of God, Calvinism stands, and will stand - victorious, invincible. God Himself maintains it; and God Himself sends it forth on an irresistible course of conquest throughout the world.
A Defense of Calvinism as the Gospel 5
The other faith maintains that fallen man retains some spiritual ability for good, some life; that God's choice of men depends upon their exercise of the ability for good that is in them; that Christ's death depends upon that good in man; and that the attainment of final glory depends upon that good in man. This is the enemy of Calvinism. This is the enemy of the Gospel! For Calvinism proclaims salvation by grace; the other faith preaches salvation by man's will and works and worth.
Calvinism is the Gospel! God's Gospel is the message of wholly gracious salvation. This does not mean that Calvinism is unoffensive. On the contrary! Calvin himself took note, long ago, of the offensiveness of the truth that he taught, with reference specifically to total depravity:
But the offensiveness of Calvinism to men is nothing other than the offense of the cross of Christ. In Galatians 5:11, Paul speaks of "the offense of the cross," an offense that ceases only in the preaching of a cross-denying heresy. The cross of Christ, which is the very heart of the Gospel, is not pleasing to man, or acceptable to him. "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness" (I Corinthians 1:23). The cross, as the cross of the eternal Son of God in our flesh, shows the extent of fallen man's misery: he can be saved only by the death of the Son of God. Words finally fail to do justice to the greatness of the misery of the sinner, brought out by the cross: utterly lost, completely ruined, totally depraved. The cross shows that salvation is of the Lord, wholly of Divine grace, and not at all of man. As the cross of the Prince of life, the cross is powerful to save. Nothing and no one can nullify or defeat the blood and Spirit of Christ crucified. The Gospel of the cross is this message: "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Romans 9:16).
Just because this is the message of Calvinism, Calvinism is offensive to men. It is offensive to proud man to hear that he is spiritually dead, totally devoid of anything pleasing to God, unable at all to save himself, nothing more than a child of wrath. But this is the judgment passed upon him in Calvinism - and in the Gospel. It is offensive to proud man to hear that salvation is exclusively God's free gift and sovereign, gracious work. But this is what Calvinism - and the Gospel - proclaim.
Just because of this, Calvinism is good news! It is Gospel, glad tidings! As the message of grace, it comforts us and all those who, by the grace of the Spirit, believe in Christ. Only this message provides hope for lost, sinful, and otherwise hopeless men. There is salvation, only because salvation is gracious.
Defending Calvinism is simply a matter of defending the Gospel. Therefore, we do not defend it apologetically, or defensively, or even as if its fortunes were doubtful, dependent on our defense. As the truth of God, Calvinism stands, and will stand - victorious, invincible. God Himself maintains it; and God Himself sends it forth on an irresistible course of conquest throughout the world.
A Defense of Calvinism as the Gospel 5
I do not need to ask HIM, because the God of the Bible is NOT a God of salvation granted to some and not to others.
These are verses that require context........ but that is how this doctrine works by finding verses that out of context seem to support this very false notion of the incapable man, who is born unable to believe.... which is of course nonsense!!
Jesus offered salvation many times. He invited all who would come to Him (Matthew 11:28), promised eternal life to whoever believes (John 3:16-17), called sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32), invited any man to come and drink (John 7:37), and lamented that Jerusalem refused His desire to gather them (Matthew 23:37). According to Jesus, people are condemned because they refuse the offer, not because no offer was made (John 5:40).
Another way to say it, would be to say, faith/belief is not a moral concept, it is neither good, nor bad in and of itself, however what one trusts in can have good or bad moral consequences.
I think faith being a virtue comes from a long history of teaching within the Catholic Church, namely Thomas Aquinas and Augustine.
It seems to me that the doctrines of Calvinism are kinda neurotic about what faith is, they are so worried about earning salvation that they adopt an extremist non biblical tenet of placing regeneration/new heart/made a sheep before faith.. which is completely nonsensical and not supported by scripture.
We do know that faith is not contributing to our salvation but rather is a response to the message of the One who did it all.
Once again, where initial faith is stated in Ephesians 2:8 it is not and cannot be the gift, this is clear from the Greek grammar.
This is a key passage for correctly understanding the plan of salvation.
Until they can find a verse where saving/initial faith is a gift their position is hollow... meaning it is made up.
More evidence you are clueless. Nobody earns salvation. Well, you
guys believe you earned it by generating faith with your dead spirit.
Eisegesis on full display.....What Jesus Never Stated...... (from the comments, brilliant!)
For Jesus said, "No one can believe in me, unless they have always been Elect in the Father."
"For Jesus came into the world to save some sinners, His elect"
"And as many were appointed by God, before the foundation of the world to believe, believed the gospel."
“……. And Jesus said, 'Father, forgive thy elect, and only thy elect, for they are yours & know NOT what they do."
"Noah believed, and his faith came upon him as an irresistible gift, being credited to him as righteousness."
Jesus said to them, 'No one comes to the Father unless they've always belonged to the Father, through me."
For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us the ungodly, and only us who are His elect"
"What shall we say then, the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is a righteousness that is through divine election, but Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness, did not succeed. Why? Because they were never chosen to begin with. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone for the good pleasure of His will to glorify himself.""
"God was in Christ reconciling the elect of the world to Himself.
"For unless you are of God's divine election, you will all likewise perish."
"What must I do to be saved?', and Paul said to him, 'There's nothing you can do, you're dead. But if God wills it so, He will make you willing to believe.'
"And we have seen and testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of some sinners, His elect."
"I pray not for the world, but only for the elect, so that only the elect of the world would believe."
For Jesus said, "No one can believe in me, unless they have always been Elect in the Father."
"For Jesus came into the world to save some sinners, His elect"
"And as many were appointed by God, before the foundation of the world to believe, believed the gospel."
“……. And Jesus said, 'Father, forgive thy elect, and only thy elect, for they are yours & know NOT what they do."
"Noah believed, and his faith came upon him as an irresistible gift, being credited to him as righteousness."
Jesus said to them, 'No one comes to the Father unless they've always belonged to the Father, through me."
For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us the ungodly, and only us who are His elect"
"What shall we say then, the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is a righteousness that is through divine election, but Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness, did not succeed. Why? Because they were never chosen to begin with. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone for the good pleasure of His will to glorify himself.""
"God was in Christ reconciling the elect of the world to Himself.
"For unless you are of God's divine election, you will all likewise perish."
"What must I do to be saved?', and Paul said to him, 'There's nothing you can do, you're dead. But if God wills it so, He will make you willing to believe.'
"And we have seen and testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of some sinners, His elect."
"I pray not for the world, but only for the elect, so that only the elect of the world would believe."
1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Have you found a verse articulating the free will of the natural man yet? No? Oh, that's right, none exist. Carry on.
the gospel are the actions and words of Jesus Christ as found in Mark, John, Luke and Matthew as is. no need to add anything else Because His words are eternal life. Just listen to Him!
Jesus connected life and salvation directly to His words, not merely to hearing them, but to believing, keeping, and obeying them.
The words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
— John 6:63 (ASV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
— John 5:24 (ASV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.
— John 8:51 (ASV)
If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
— John 8:31-32 (ASV)
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day.
— John 12:48 (ASV)
And I know that his commandment is eternal life: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.
— John 12:50 (ASV)
Blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
— Luke 11:28 (ASV)
These verses reveal a consistent teaching from Jesus: His words bring life because they come from the Father. Eternal life is connected with hearing His words, believing them, abiding in them, keeping them, and obeying them. That is why Jesus could say:
The word(s) that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63 (ASV)
They are born of God's will. The belief and faith is for us. When we receive and believe God, we have a right to become children of God. God will have mercy on whomever he will have mercy and he decided to have mercy on those who believed and those who he believes will be made spiritually born.
It's to as many as who have received and believed, to them they'll be given the right to become children of God.
To whosoever believes
The plan of salvation starts with God despite your many protestations skewing the ordo salutis.
- Status