1948 Not THE Fulfillment of Prophecy

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
So you're saying every Jew today should be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers? Even if they know nothing of Jesus.
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Not at all, I have quite a few Solomons in my family tree. The 'Jews' need to repent and believe the gospel like anyone else. I stick with what the Lord says. A Jew is one inwardly, not outwardly, and there are people who say they are Jews and are not. God makes you a Jew, not man.

The Lord says He is able to graft them back in, why would anyone hate them? Does that mean we should lie? God's word is settled, you can't change it. I pray for peace in the middle east, there are Christians in all nations and there are those who haven't been saved yet in all nations. What is happening is going to happen, nobody can stop it. Mystery Babylon will fall and the blood of the prophets will be avenged. It is written.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
So you're saying every Jew today should be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers? Even if they know nothing of Jesus.
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There will always be those out there who see us Jews as the enemy, and they believe that without realizing who really was behind the crucifixion of Christ Jesus. Ancient Israel's religious leaders were indeed guilty in having played out their part in it all, but the princes of this world are the ones who were really behind it. The epistles make that clear.

So don't marvel when people claim we are to blame. They are people who know not the scriptures.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
What I was saying is that 1948 itself wasn't the fulfillment of any prophecy, but rather a staging of what is coming in the near future, not that it could not happen again. Israel right now occupies less than 2% of what was promised to Abraham. The full possession is yet to come.

MM
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I doubt it. The territory from Nile to Euphrates was given to Abraham's descendants, when it came down to the twelve tribes, it was down to that small strip between Jordan and the sea. The rest, unfortunately, was taken by Ishmael's descendants.
 
Beekeeper said:
Fortunately the kingdom of heaven (Jerusalem above) is a present reality.
Part of it is in this world still.
Israel of God under king Jesus has expanded it's borders to include the whole world.
You are freely invited to be a citizen in it regardless of your genetics.
I hope to meet you there and continue this conversation when we can do so respectfully.
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Even if that was a reality, it's a city of angels that has nothing to do with us. All the dead go down to the grave and waiting for resurrection. Most definitely Paul didn't say or imply that we'll go to heaven or wander on earth as ghosts, any teaching of such is pure deception, even though it's a conventional belief in the western culture.

"But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep."

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The sceneries commonly visualized as heaven, i.e. golden streets, pearly gates, shiny gems, crystalline stream, those are in the New Jerusalem, which is more than 1000 years away.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's not my delusion because it is written that Israel was dwelling in the land when Christ was there.

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! John 1:47​

Furthermore, when Jesus sent his disciples he told them to enter only cities of Israel

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5-6​
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The same Jesus went to Samaria, evangelized a Samaritan woman, and stayed there for two days. Nice try.

Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. But He needed to go through Samaria.

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. And many more believed because of His own word.
 
Lovette said:
Even if that was a reality, it's a city of angels that has nothing to do with us. All the dead go down to the grave and waiting for resurrection.
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Just amazing.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16​
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Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:5-6​
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And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Revelation 6:9​
 
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Lovette said:
The same Jesus went to Samaria, evangelized a Samaritan woman, and stayed there for two days. Nice try.

Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. But He needed to go through Samaria.

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. And many more believed because of His own word.
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What's your point? What you posted certainly didn't refute what I posted
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Just amazing.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16​
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Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:5-6​
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And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Revelation 6:9​
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Yeah, amazing. Just take the last one for instance, at the end of Revelation, did Apostle John ascend into heaven, or was he still on the island of Patmos? If he had ascended into heaven with the Lord, who wrote the book of Revelation?

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,"
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What's your point? What you posted certainly didn't refute what I posted
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The delusion is soly yours. The ten tribes of Israel are called lost because they were disinherited.

“Call her name Lo-Ruhamah (No mercy),
For I will no longer have mercy on the house of Israel,
But I will utterly take them away.
Yet I will have mercy on the house of Judah,
Will save them by the Lord their God,
And will not save them by bow,
Nor by sword or battle,
By horses or horsemen.” (Hosea 1:7)

“Call his name Lo-Ammi (Not my people),
For you are not My people,
And I will not be your God. (Hosea 1:8)

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. (James 1:1)
 
Lovette said:
Yeah, amazing. Just take the last one for instance, at the end of Revelation, did Apostle John ascend into heaven, or was he still on the island of Patmos? If he had ascended into heaven with the Lord, who wrote the book of Revelation?

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,"
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His body was on earth; his spirit was in heaven. Out of body experience
 
Lovette said:
The delusion is soly yours. The ten tribes of Israel are called lost because they were disinherited.

“Call her name Lo-Ruhamah (No mercy),
For I will no longer have mercy on the house of Israel,
But I will utterly take them away.
Yet I will have mercy on the house of Judah,
Will save them by the Lord their God,
And will not save them by bow,
Nor by sword or battle,
By horses or horsemen.” (Hosea 1:7)

“Call his name Lo-Ammi (Not my people),
For you are not My people,
And I will not be your God. (Hosea 1:8)

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. (James 1:1)
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You don't even try to make sense. Such a waste of time
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
His body was on earth; his spirit was in heaven. Out of body experience
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Therefore, nobody ascends to heaven except Lord Jesus himself. The dead goes to the grave and awaits for resurrection.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13)
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You don't even try to make sense. Such a waste of time
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The only "sense" I try to make is that the Jewish people deserve their own homeland, granted to them by God.

"the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.”"
 
Lovette said:
Therefore, nobody ascends to heaven except Lord Jesus himself. The dead goes to the grave and awaits for resurrection.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13)
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You're not very good at expositing the bible. Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration; the book of Hebrews says heaven is filled with the spirits of just men made perfect, etc. And you misunderstand what Jesus was saying in John 3:13
 
Lovette said:
The only "sense" I try to make is that the Jewish people deserve their own homeland, granted to them by God.

"the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for I give it to you.”"
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Why do they deserve their own homeland? It sounds like you think they are entitled to it.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
So you're saying every Jew today should be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers? Even if they know nothing of Jesus.
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Nationally, Israel is rejected because of their refusal to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah. Individually, like any Gentile, they can come to Jesus and find salvation.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You're not very good at expositing the bible. Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration; the book of Hebrews says heaven is filled with the spirits of just men made perfect, etc. And you misunderstand what Jesus was saying in John 3:13
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Was the mount of transfiguration in heaven or on earth? It is you who has misunderstood Heb. 12, registered in heaven is not ascending to heaven. When Lord Jesus was dead, he himself went down to Hades to preach to the spirits in "prison". Doesn't sound like heaven to me. Neither is "asleep", a euphemism for death.

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."
 
"For in Him every one of God's promises is a yes". 2 Cor 1:20. NRSV.

This verse tells us that all the promises of God, including the Abrahamic covenant with its Land promises, is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Ethnic Israel has no claim to the Land anymore. They are not entitled to it.
Ethnic Israel has been cut off from all covenant blessings because of its rejection of Christ. Rm 11.
God's chosen people now are the Church 1 Pe 2:9-10. The Church is the 'Israel of God'. Gal6:16.
 
Lovette said:
Because the Almighty God said so, they indeed are entitled to it, and you're in hatred and denial.
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He promised to give it to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Christ (Galatians 3:16), but he never promised it without conditions to Israel. If you disagree I challenge you to demonstrate with scripture why
 
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